Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[zeeCFC]

We've seen sides like Essendon lose to a terrible Melbourne side but they've usually shown glimpses of good football previous or thereafter. There seems to be no way back for the Blues.

What has to happen from here? Serious issues have been exposed all through the club.

- Depth, previous recruiting regimes have had long lasting effects on us it seems. At some point seems like media pundits have got it right about us and we just can't match a side that puts anything that resembles an effort in.

- Board stagnating and outside influences like the Pratts/Mathiesons having too much of a say and looking for quick fixes. Ask any Carlton fan and they'll scratch their heads as to why Jeannie is the Vice President while Mathieson continues to pollute our club with dirty money and toxic views on football.

- Player leadership lacking and possibly non existent. During the Judd years we all quietly told ourselves "gee I wish Judd was more of a vocal leader" and yet the coach saw fit to install an even more introverted captain surrounded by a leadership group that is devoid of confidence and drags the rest of the side down by not following structures.

Tough decisions need to be made and in my opinion the cogs are already turning but we need to get the Mathieson/Pratt mentality of a quick fix out of the club, bunker down and make smart choices. Within 2 years we could be without Judd, Carrazzo, Waite, Scotland, Simpson, Gibbs and with very young depth players who have suffered from huge losses and lack of games.

Commence licking wounds...

 

[BM123]

Time for a exorcist. Rebuilds are bloody hard to do and we will need to make sure that we have a proper group of experienced leaders helping out the young kids who will be coming through. We can't afford to just cull a bunch of older players and leave the kids to wither on the vine.

Remove Kernahan and Swann. The whole board itself needs to be held accountable since the rot starts at the top.

Get a independent organisation to do a proper review of the club from top to bottom.

Force MM to change his gameplan or find a new coach who will.

Take the captaincy off Murphy. Remove Walker and Gibbs from the leadership group.

Let Gibbs go to Port through FA.

 

[pepalenko]

It worries me how long it will take, because if done properly it will be minimum 5 years before we contend seriously. I am beginning to think someone like Murphy wont even be part of the next premiership. We are talking a CLUB rebuild not just the team. Cultural change. I dont really have the how-tos though. Right now, one guy I'd be trying to keep is Shane Rogers and the water girl.

 

[SBYM]

Buck up guys.

Our last rebuild went swimmingly…

<furiously licking wounds>

 

[BALKAN]

One thing is for sure, we can't throw money at the problem to make it go away. Tried and failed.

What we need to do is focus intensely on our player development. We have the unmatched ability to have a bunch of decent players playing well below their potential, while the top clubs have average players playing like superstars.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

Being a great team and winning a flag is a mix of many different elements, and like fire, without one element, it just doesn't work.

IMO you must have the following to be a top team:

• Great recruitment staff
• Great list management
• Great development coaches
• Great fitness/medical/rehab facilities and staff
• Great head coaches and gameday coaches
• Great culture and environment
• Be innovative
• Great board and administration

History shows our Recruiting has been poor. Personally, I think our Development has been worse. And one look at our list shows how inept our List Management has been. So three fails out of three.

Our fitness and medical facilities and staff seems to be up to par. But I'm no expert on that, so make of that what you will. They seem good though.

We apparently have one of the best coaches going around at the moment, but is that still the case? Has the game gone by Mick? Is he too stubborn to change his game plan? Is he coaching for the wrong reasons? I welcomed Mick coming to Carlton, but the jury is still well and truly out. Only time will tell. I don't really rate the rest of our coaches, John Barker especially. Our assistants really need a big overhaul.

Our culture and environment seem terrible. I believe that this comes right from the President down. We are certainly still stuck in the '80's mindset of buying one star player or poaching a top coach will fix all our problems. We seem unable to grasp that teams these days are built from the ground up and players are brought in from other clubs to fill holes. This is the worst trait of the Carlton Football Club at the moment and this must change.

Also, our players are all introverts and soft, with the exception of a handful. I agree with others that Simpson is clearly our best leader. Murphy just doesn't seem to have it in him, and would be a better player without the burden.

All CFC players seem to be selfish too. One way runners, not offering protection to others, poor skills. Our culture is just so poor. I think that this is a hangover from our Golden Years of the '70's and '80's where everything just clicked for us, and winning was just expected. Players seem content just to be playing AFL and earning big dollars. No one shows much heart or passion. No one really seems hungry to win.

Innovation? Pfft! COPY COLLINGWOOD! Absolutely one of the least innovative teams in the competition. The kicking we got from the salary cap scandal has left us cowards and frightened to think outside the box and be creative. We are an incredibly reactive club. This has led us to stagnate on and off the field. Our membership, attendance and TV viewing figures are dropping alarmingly.

The Board and Admin need a complete overhaul. Kernahan is finally stepping down this year. Replacement yet to be named. Jeannie Pratt and Bruce Mathieson seem to hold too much sway, and I think we need fresh blood in there, and not just an old boys club, which I feel it can be at the moment.

All in all, since the 1999 Grand Final appearance, it's just been failure after failure. No one has had the balls to address any meaningful issues and tackle core problems. We have been coasting on our mighty reputation for far too long and living in the past for a generation now.

Big changes need to happen, from the President to the bootstudder.

So, to go back to my opening statement:

• Great recruitment staff - FAIL
• Great list management - FAIL
• Great development coaches - FAIL
• Great fitness/medical/rehab facilities and staff - PASS
• Great head coaches and gameday coaches - UNDECIDED
• Great culture and environment - FAIL
• Be innovative - FAIL
• Great board and administration - FAIL

Not good. It saddens me to say that we may not see another Carlton flag for another 20 years unless something is done.

**Full disclosure, this isn't a reactive rant from me. I've been thinking like this for quite a few years now.

 

[The Real Deal]

I feared this day would come. Looking back since 2008 our best chance were the 2 years where we played Bris and WCE in finals and couldn't get over the line. Do be brutally honest we were never a real premiership chance anyway. The recruiting during that time was at best weak and we're now seeing the results of it as guys like Scotland, Judd, Waite, Simpson get towards the end. This position we are in is 6 years in the making. There has been no urgency in recruiting quality talls, therefore there is no structure and we can't eke out a win. I have my doubts about Thomas, will he get back to his best? We just shelled out $700k per year for him, that's a massive investment. We need to look at the recruiting of sides like Hawthorn, Sydney. Complete re-build required.

 

[zeeCFC]

What is our game plan Mick?

FB: Tuohy Buckley
Jamison Rowe
Walker Everitt
Gibbs Thomas
HB: Carrazzo Scotland
Murphy Curnow
Menzel Graham
Cripps Casboult
C:
HF: Ellard

R: Warnock

etc etc etc

 

[zeeCFC]

I feared this day would come. Looking back since 2008 our best chance were the 2 years where we played Bris and WCE in finals and couldn't get over the line. Do be brutally honest we were never a real premiership chance anyway. The recruiting during that time was at best weak and we're now seeing the results of it as guys like Scotland, Judd, Waite, Simpson get towards the end. This position we are in is 6 years in the making. There has been no urgency in recruiting quality talls, therefore there is no structure and we can't eke out a win. I have my doubts about Thomas, will he get back to his best? We just shelled out $700k per year for him, that's a massive investment. We need to look at the recruiting of sides like Hawthorn, Sydney. Complete re-build required.

We should have selected better players than Bower, Hampson, Grigg and kept a hold of them. Opposition sides have players from those drafts and they're valuable contributing senior players.

A lack of senior quality and an out of form group of up and comers has killed us. Garlett in my mind is the best small forward in the comp when going but he makes Ellard look like Andrew McLeod right now.

Board wants quick fixes. Match Committee is effed. Coach not getting players to buy into defensive plan. Players heartless.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I know many of you don't rate our club but we're in the same predicament.
The lack of run, will to block and shepherd, will to take the game on, will to work hard BOTH ways is similar.
Both clubs have got ahead of themselves after making the finals last year.

Pity because we are both passionately supported clubs.

 

[BM123]

Gut the board.

Gut the MC

Find new coach or start to gut the list?

We are now behind Melbourne, Bulldogs, GWS and GC going forward.

Going to be a long time between drinks....

 

[BM123]

Pity because we are both passionately supported clubs.[/quote]

I know many of you don't rate our club but we're in the same predicament.
The lack of run, will to block and shepherd, will to take the game on, will to work hard BOTH ways is similar.
Both clubs have got ahead of themselves after making the finals last year.

Pity because we are both passionately supported clubs.

At least Richmond are good at getting members on board.

 

[The Real Deal]

We should have selected better players than Bower, Hampson, Grigg and kept a hold of them. Opposition sides have players from those drafts and they're valuable contributing senior players.

A lack of senior quality and an out of form group of up and comers has killed us. Garlett in my mind is the best small forward in the comp when going but he makes Ellard look like Andrew McLeod right now.

Board wants quick fixes. Match Committee is effed. Coach not getting players to buy into defensive plan. Players heartless.

Unfortunately the players are devoid of confidence at the moment. The repeated missed shots against Richmond was the problem. Having said that, even if by some miracle we were 2-2 right now, we're NOWHERE near a top 4 side. The fact that Rowe is CHB says a lot. Waite can't even get a game against Melbourne. Casboult is not a quality player, Kreuzer has been largely disappointing over his career. Warnock is a good tap ruckman but not good enough around the ground. WHERE IS THE STRUCTURE. We got by from 2009-12 because of an above average midfield. Now that is gone there is NOTHING. Build a spine Carlton.

 

[Stamos]

At least Richmond are good at getting members on board.

Who would sign up as member after the last 2 weeks?

 

[LordLucifer]

There is only one way forward from here :

THE FUTURE
Chris Yarran
Andrew Walker
Dale Thomas
Lachie Henderson
Marc Murphy
Andrejs Everitt
Sam Docherty
Nick Graham
Troy Menzel
Patrick Cripps
Cameron Giles
Nick Holman
Dylan Buckley

*These players are the foundation of our next assault on a premiership, the recruiting department & match committee must build a list around them which may take 4-5 years, however, some of the new lads may not reach the level required and could end up being replaced*

THE INTERIM
Tom Temay
Denis Armfield
Ed Curnow
Chris Judd
Kade Simpson
Zach Tuohy
Michael Jamison

*These players will be replaced over the next couple of years, they are only short-term options*

THE LISTCLOGGERS
Sam Rowe
Heath Scotland
Levi Casboult
Kane Lucas
Jarryd Cachia
Brock McLean
Andrew McInnes
Simon White
Mathew Watson
Bryce Gibbs
Robert Warnock
Josh Bootsma
Andrew Carrazzo
Mitch Robinson
Tom Bell
Jarrod Waite
Jeff Garlett
Mathew Kreuzer
David Ellard

*These players must be traded or delisted as soon as possible*

What they should be doing is taking every one on the Listcloggers list to the trade table and trade as many of them as they can, secure young untried talent sitting on other club's lists to be part of the new look we need to build. The Future list needs to get up to 30 name son it before we are ready to make the ladder climb.

 

[BM123]

Who would sign up as member after the last 2 weeks?

Richmond have been failing for decades and still get more members on board then us.

 

[The Real Deal]

that's a lot of list cloggers, but you're right with many of them.

 

[BM123]

Don't mind Casboult to be honest. If we were playing corridor football he would be dangerous.

 

[KennyHunter9]

Start at the top: Sticks goes first. F*** the 150 years. Make this year a line in the sand year and we'll look back on the 150th the same way the Hawks do their same turning point. Jeannie Pratt gone too.

Big decision on coach. I've said elsewhere that the MM appointment had mixed messages: he's either here for a quick win (fail) or to build a long-term culture of success (still possible). Have to back him in for next year I would have thought. Focus on culture.

A more senior set of assistants required. We lost Richardson and Brown, and suffered last year.

Give Buttifant a chance to do his thing.

30% player list turnover this year - 12/13 out the door. Retirements for Judd, Waite, Scotland, Carazzo, McLean, Gibbs gone as a FA, Delist 7 - won't be hard to find them.

And most importantly, a new recruiting department needed desperately, so that they won't f*** up the next rebuild.

OK, a bit angry now. And good luck to the membership department getting to 50K members. Can we count all those poor b****** dropping coins into our slot machines?

 

[LordLucifer]

that's a lot of list cloggers, but you're right with many of them.

How many of them have upside, show fight, good skills or would get a game at one of the ladder leaders ??

 

[LordLucifer]

Don't mind Casboult to be honest. If we were playing corridor football he would be dangerous.

Great mark but woeful kick, also makes some very poor decisions that are costly. There's a reason why he was picke dup in the rookie draft.

 

[KennyHunter9]

Get a independent organisation to do a proper review of the club from top to bottom.

Process? Independence? Governance? But we are Carlton!

 

[zeeCFC]

Process? Independence? Governance? But we are Carlton!

I think he's suggesting we hire Dank.

 

[Vic Vinegar]

We let Robert Harvey go to St Kilda (then Collingwood), yet we keep a known spud like John Barker on our coaching panel.

Top work Carlton. Top work.

 

[BM123]

Process? Independence? Governance? But we are Carlton!

"We are Carlton and *** the rest"

Hollow words when other teams are strolling right past us and Melbourne of all teams are showing us no respect.