Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[HBF]

Hendo stays forward.
Hopefully Jamo comes back next week and lets keep on developing Rowe as a defender.
Watson was good today and should force his way back pretty soon.

 

[CarltonKid07]

Rowe, Jamison and Watson are all needed against WCE next week!!!! Darling, Kennedy and I suspect Lycett or Cox/Natanui will be playing making their 3 Talls

 

[juzz88]

Just shake my head sometimes fair dinkum.

What are your thoughts Thy?

Not being a smart ass, genuinely want to hear your opinion and where you think I'm wrong.

 

[thylacine60]

I just think it's pointless following a club if we can't stop and smell the roses after a win. We know it's only a small thing in the context of the season but really, the turnaround in form deserves a little more than "let's not get carried away". Just once I'd quite like to get a little carried away.

 

[juzz88]

Fair enough, each to their own.

I just like to keep things in perspective, because if we get carried away and lose in the next two weeks, we will be hearing all about it from opposition supporters. And that's what shits me the most. Scum the lot of them.

 

[thylacine60]

How are we likely to get carried away? Have you seen MM's face lately?

 

[juzz88]

How are we likely to get carried away? Have you seen MM's face lately?

Some supporters (of any club in any code) tend to get a bit silly after a win like that and start talking about finals and flags again, as if the last four weeks never happened. I just don't want us to turn in to those supporters, that's all.

 

[invinciBlues]

Some supporters (of any club in any code) tend to get a bit silly after a win like that and start talking about finals and flags again, as if the last four weeks never happened. I just don't want us to turn in to those supporters, that's all.

We're a good chance to knock over West Coast next week. If we get up thats when some of our supporters will start to get a bit silly. If we can string that win into a win against Cloingwood next week, thats when Ill start to get a bit silly.

But thats all carts and horses. For now Im going to watch a replay of last night and watch the boys finally play with some heart and soul and hope they follow it up in the coming weeks. Cant take the foot off the throttle now.

 

[OldSaintsBro]

We still have miles to go but a long journey starts with the first step. Yesterday might have been a small step in the season but a giant step for Carlton.

It is the best game I've seen from Warnock. There is hope after all.
Bell played a ripper and there is hope.
Lucas stuck his tackles and gut ran all day. There is hope.
Cripps has something but not ready yet. There is hope.
Rowe is filling a gap and whilst he makes me nervous every time he gets near the ball, for the balance of the team there is hope.
IMHO Hendo is a potential AA CHB but for team balance he also looks an A grade forward. There is hope.
Casboult has extremes between clunker and clumsy, but has presence, there is hope.

As I posted earlier in this thread....... a week is a long time in football. Now...... about next week?

 

[zeeCFC]

With the 3 injuries do we keep rolling the youth dice and trial Holman at some stage? Has been doing very well in the VFL.

 

[thylacine60]

Great question. Fast becoming one of my NB faves. Slotted a critical goal yesterday and looked to be in lots of play. Keep safe.

 

[T2B_]

I think at the end of the day Hendo is a real quality player whichever end you have him.

Downside is there's only one of him

 

[thylacine60]

It was the best Crazy Vossie could do.

 

[etsal1]

Great question. Fast becoming one of my NB faves. Slotted a critical goal yesterday and looked to be in lots of play. Keep safe.

Same here. Becoming a real highlight to watch & one of the reasons I go.

Got knocked out yesterday and I thought he was out cold, but he just jumped right back up and kept going.

Rogers really seems to have pinpointed a particular type of player (in terms of attitude) - Menz, Cripps, Holman, Graham etc. All play like good old fashioned footballers.

 

[thylacine60]

really good point

 

[prisoner777]

We've seen sides like Essendon lose to a terrible Melbourne side but they've usually shown glimpses of good football previous or thereafter. There seems to be no way back for the Blues.

What has to happen from here? Serious issues have been exposed all through the club.

- Depth, previous recruiting regimes have had long lasting effects on us it seems. At some point seems like media pundits have got it right about us and we just can't match a side that puts anything that resembles an effort in.

- Board stagnating and outside influences like the Pratts/Mathiesons having too much of a say and looking for quick fixes. Ask any Carlton fan and they'll scratch their heads as to why Jeannie is the Vice President while Mathieson continues to pollute our club with dirty money and toxic views on football.

- Player leadership lacking and possibly non existent. During the Judd years we all quietly told ourselves "gee I wish Judd was more of a vocal leader" and yet the coach saw fit to install an even more introverted captain surrounded by a leadership group that is devoid of confidence and drags the rest of the side down by not following structures.

Tough decisions need to be made and in my opinion the cogs are already turning but we need to get the Mathieson/Pratt mentality of a quick fix out of the club, bunker down and make smart choices. Within 2 years we could be without Judd, Carrazzo, Waite, Scotland, Simpson, Gibbs and with very young depth players who have suffered from huge losses and lack of games.

Commence licking wounds...

TOTALLY AGREE! Carlton, its board and players are in denial. A massive clean out is needed and a NEW DIRECTION forged bringing the club into the 21st century. Carlton's old school culture needs to change or else we'll never seriously challenge the big boys!

 

[ferrisb]

Just reading through this thread and stumbled on btdg-gate.

I for one really liked the post but I can see why some people would react with 'I'm not waiting another 15 ****ing years!'.

I can't say it any better than this girl

I think the club needs somewhat of an overhaul, but I don't think that will necessarily mean 15 years in the wilderness.

There are some structural weaknesses and failings that will continue to plague the club until they are addressed. In my mind, key among these is the lack of transparency and accountability at the club.

I think the key is to always aim for best practice. Build an organisation that people want to work/play for. Cultivate better supporter engagement. Have a vision and work towards it. If you do this, the results will come. Not this season, not next year, but probably not 15 years either.

I've worked in many organisations that focus on the here and now. And I can understand why - the here and now seems the most urgent and critical. But if you don't have one eye on the future you will be forever patching things up and years will go by and you will wonder why other companies/clubs have passed you buy. And don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Once you have your vision, you will find that some of the pieces are already in place. And so then you need to find, tweak or replace the pieces that are missing.

Success doesn't come quickly. It comes to those with foresight, planning, persistence and patience. Anything else is just a shortcut or luck. And these are not long-term solutions.

 

[Old Dark Blues]

I just think it's pointless following a club if we can't stop and smell the roses after a win. We know it's only a small thing in the context of the season but really, the turnaround in form deserves a little more than "let's not get carried away". Just once I'd quite like to get a little carried away.

I'm about to watch it for the 3rd time. Smelling the roses - I've been rolling around in them starkes.

 

[Magruder]

Well said ferrisb.

we can come out of this quite quickly. 2 more draft/ trade periods should yield another 4 or so exciting younger players, perhaps a couple of gift horse Docherty type trades.
The list is not poor, but perhaps just poorly balanced.

The key is a continual focus on both the here and now but also what the list looks like in 3 years. But as you have pointed out, we need to add some cultural change and an emphasis on collective sustained success and the outlook is transformed.

I am reminded that Port were described as a basket case 2-3 years ago.

 

[ShanDog]

I am reminded that Port were described as a basket case 2-3 years ago.

A mate who is a Port supporter called me up after our loss to Melbourne to point that out and talk me off the edge of the cliff lol

 

[Magruder]

A mate who is a Port supporter called me up after our loss to Melbourne to point that out and talk me off the edge of the cliff lol

If you get the basics in place these things can turn around really fast.

FWIW I think we started to do this around 2006/7 and were really well placed cica 2010. We then extended contracts for fringe players that should have been moved on and reverted to short-term measures like Brock. (I can see the logic in getting him though)

We're not coming from as far back this time.... won't take as long

 

[ShanDog]

If you get the basics in place these things can turn around really fast.

FWIW I think we started to do this around 2006/7 and were really well placed cica 2010. We then extended contracts for fringe players that should have been moved on and reverted to short-term measures like Brock. (I can see the logic in getting him though)

We're not coming from as far back this time.... won't take as long

We definitely aren't going to be coming back from as far as we were in the early 2000's, and the clubs who are managed best will ensure that even when they do drop down, it isn't very far and there is always a solid long-term plan for sustained success. Geelong is a great example of this.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

We definitely aren't going to be coming back from as far as we were in the early 2000's, and the clubs who are managed best will ensure that even when they do drop down, it isn't very far and there is always a solid long-term plan for sustained success. Geelong is a great example of this.

I reckon we are probably quite similar to Collingwood in 2005, had a poor year finished 15th of the back of a poor year in 04 where they finished 13th so didn't hit complete rock bottom, but then got 2 picks in the top 10 got Dale Thomas and Scott Pendlebury, then in 2006 got another 2 in the top 10 and started putting together there list that would win them a flag within 5 years.

 

[ShanDog]

I reckon we are probably quite similar to Collingwood in 2005, had a poor year finished 15th of the back of a poor year in 04 where they finished 13th so didn't hit complete rock bottom, but then got 2 picks in the top 10 got Dale Thomas and Scott Pendlebury, then in 2006 got another 2 in the top 10 and started putting together there list that would win them a flag within 5 years.

Would be nice if it's only 3-4 years off.....

 

[Magruder]

We definitely aren't going to be coming back from as far as we were in the early 2000's, and the clubs who are managed best will ensure that even when they do drop down, it isn't very far and there is always a solid long-term plan for sustained success. Geelong is a great example of this.

Spot on.

You might say that Chapman was moved on by the Cats because they doubted his hamstrings etc, but I think some of it was managing the age cohorts within their list. Chapman's performance arcs were dipping in terms of consistency, (his best was still excellent), but he wasn't going to be able to contribute at a high level on a regular basis going forward. I think the Cats made the call to ensure that they had sufficient list rotation and players coming through at various ages and stages of development to minimise performance downturn.

It's a great example of how to manage a list to ensure renewal.