Politics The Republic Debate

Are you in favour of Australia becoming a Republic with an Austalian head of state?


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Aug 19, 2013
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Interestingly, I see that while the majority of people posting on the thread are against change, a majority of voters are in favour.

As I said, every survey shows a huge number of Australians, usually a majority, in favour of change.

Can you quote one?

I heard Peter Fitzsimmons on the radio this morning going off on that same tangent, but it was in direct contrast to those that called in vehemently opposing change.

He was quoting social media, and sure in the twittersphere it probably is more positive for change, but that doesn't account for the older person in our community who are generally more opposed, it is a bit like the gay marriage debate - there is a perception, because of social media, that the majority are in favour, I'm just not so sure that is the case.
 

kfc1

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So apparently we need to have a serious discussion on this for our country's future but in 5 pages the only justification being put forward is that it would make someone feel more politically enfranchised.

The discussion might actually happen if there were some actual arguments put forward for once.
 
Aug 19, 2013
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The most recent Newspoll was last year, and the percentage that were some degree for or against was even.

Strong support for the republic was lowest amongst 18-34 year olds, at 17%.


Fair enough, but surveys, like charts can tell the story you want them to. Polls often are often proven wrong on polling day.

I'm not of a strong opinion either way, I just question the great desire by the country as a whole to change what many believe not to be broken.
 
Fair enough, but surveys, like charts can tell the story you want them to. Polls often are often proven wrong on polling day.

I'm not of a strong opinion either way, I just question the great desire by the country as a whole to change what many believe not to be broken.

The trend for supporting a republic agrees with you. It has been trending downward since the referendum.
 

MaddAdam

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So apparently we need to have a serious discussion on this for our country's future but in 5 pages the only justification being put forward is that it would make someone feel more politically enfranchised.

The discussion might actually happen if there were some actual arguments put forward for once.

Stupid political enfranchisement.
 

MaddAdam

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Australia is fully free from any political ties to England as of 1986.

Myself I prefer the system of constitutional monarchy to that of a republic.

Apart from the reality that our head of state is determined by who a woman in the UK gives birth to.
 
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Apart from the reality that our head of state is determined by who a woman in the UK gives birth to.

Yes? Constitutional monarchies by their very nature are hereditary.

The monarch in a constitutional monarchy personifies the continuity (through the hereditary aspect) and legitimacy of the state. In that role, the monarch acts as a constitutional umpire with the hereditary aspect re-inforcing and complementing their impartiality and their ability to remain above/outside politics. As such, they owe their position to no one political party or political individual, unlike an elected head of state in a republic who comes from a pool of candidates that have to jockey to be elected...and hence can become political.
 

kfc1

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Apart from the reality that our head of state is determined by who a woman in the UK gives birth to.
A head of state who has zero influence on your life.

When you break down your argument about political enfranchisemnt to "i dont want to see a crown on the cops uniform or Liz on my money" you can see why its not actually persuasive.
 
Jun 11, 2007
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Doesn't work that way. A referendum has to be of the form:

Here is <a proposed change to the constitution>. Do you agree to make this change? YES/NO

It's impossible for a multiple choice referendum for that reason.

For something as important as this is, a multi-answer Constitutional Question could be made valid. The winner gets up and the Constitution is changed. It seems to me to be the only way forward through this 'us monarchists are a minority NO but we'll win anyway because the YES camp is so divided' malarkey.

The 'system' was made through human agency. It can be remade or unmade through human agency too.
 
Jun 11, 2007
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In other news, Joe Hockey has agreed to co-chair a new bi-partisan parliamentary push for an Australian Republic, according to the Tassie Advocate.

http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/3309455/hockey-to-lead-australian-republic-push-poll/

Treasurer Joe Hockey has agreed to front a new bipartisan political push for an Australian republic as part of an ambitious ten year map for constitutional change.

The new chair of the Australian Republican Movement, author and Fairfax Media columnist Peter FitzSimons, said it had been a generation since the unsuccessful 1999 referendum but the time had come to make the case for change again.

Treasurer Joe Hockey, pictured at the National Reform Summit in Sydney on Wednesday, will co-chair a new parliamentary group to build support for an Australian republic.

"It's time for us to be entirely self-governing. We propose it starts with a simple question to be put before the Australian people some time in the next five years, 'do you support replacing the British monarchy with an Australian citizen as the Australian head of state'," Mr FitzSimons said in a speech to the National Press Club on Wednesday...

Some, but not all his Liberal mates are happy

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-...onsult-tony-abbott-on-republican-push/6727896

Prime Minister Tony Abbott says Treasurer Joe Hockey did not consult him before leading a new push for Australia to become a republic.

Mr Hockey angered some of his Federal Cabinet colleagues with the announcement he will lead a parliamentary friendship group on the issue...

...Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull congratulated the Treasurer for agreeing to lead the group, saying it was "absolutely his call".

"Good on him ... everyone knows where I stand on the republic, I am a notorious republican," he said.

But others in Government argued Mr Hockey should focus on his day job as Treasurer.

One Government minister told AM he was "blown away" to hear the Treasurer had become involved with such a "peripheral issue".

Mr Hockey had shown a "complete lack of judgement," the frontbencher said...
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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Australia is a nation that stands on it's own in the world. The fact that we have the Queen of England as our head of state is an anachronism.
Personally, it makes me feel like vomiting when I think that Prince William will one day stand as the head of state of my great nation.
Surely to God there are greater Australians than him who can stand among us as a leader of this great nation.

You find me an Australian for head of state that is absolutely 100% politically neutral and I'll go for it. It doesn't have to be just one either, we'll need a whole lot of them lined up as successors. Until you can find me that person / s then I'm quite happy to leave things as they are.

I like the fact that there's essentially a neutral umpire, who is removed from the day to day goings on who can look at things dispassionately.
 
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I like the fact that there's essentially a neutral umpire, who is removed from the day to day goings on who can look at things dispassionately.

After Bronnie Bishop's helicopter punt I was wondering why the Speaker of the House isn't also an apolitical appointment. All this 'captain's pick' stuff doesn't look good.

Maybe our future apolitical President could be the apolitical Speaker as well? Beholden to no side politically, but can admonish even the Prime Minister if they're acting up in the Parliament?
 
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You find me an Australian for head of state that is absolutely 100% politically neutral and I'll go for it. It doesn't have to be just one either, we'll need a whole lot of them lined up as successors. Until you can find me that person / s then I'm quite happy to leave things as they are.

I like the fact that there's essentially a neutral umpire, who is removed from the day to day goings on who can look at things dispassionately.
That's essentially the problem though isn't it. We have a head of state who lives thousands of kilometres away in a different country and apart from the occasional visit and the odd patronising comment that they love Australia, couldn't give a s**t about the country and it's people.
However, I'm happy for you to accept this. I think the average Australian like yourself doesn't like change.
But personally I'd be more than happy to elect an Australian as the head of state of Australia.
As for being politically neutral, didn't the Queen approve the sacking of the Whitlam government :oops:
 
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everyone who says yes should be put in jail for treason.
You've put your hand up - that's good. When the new Australian President takes charge who'll be the first of the wingers we put on on the boat we're sending back to Blighty. You won't have to worship your Royal Family from afar anymore then.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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That's essentially the problem though isn't it. We have a head of state who lives thousands of kilometres away in a different country and apart from the occasional visit and the odd patronising comment that they love Australia, couldn't give a s**t about the country and it's people.
However, I'm happy for you to accept this. I think the average Australian like yourself doesn't like change.
But personally I'd be more than happy to elect an Australian as the head of state of Australia.
As for being politically neutral, didn't the Queen approve the sacking of the Whitlam government :oops:

I've got no problem with change, just not change for change's sake or change where it doesn't improve anyone's lot.

To say that the average Australia like myself doesn't like change is a bit insulting. In my lifetime, which is now later 40s, I've probably lived through more change to daily living than what most generations ever had. My entire working life which started in '84 has been one of continual adaption and upskilling.

As for the Queen approving the sacking of the Whitlam government, that was the point I was making. What would have happened to us if there wasn't that neutral umpire to make the call, what would the alternative have been like?

Still no-one in this thread has put up a good argument for why.

Saying it's time or that we should, or, 'It's the vibe of the thing' doesn't cut it for me.
 

Lebbo73

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The Republic debate is effectively dead for the next 20 years. I saw a poll last year that had The Monarchy support as high as
I've got no problem with change, just not change for change's sake or change where it doesn't improve anyone's lot.

To say that the average Australia like myself doesn't like change is a bit insulting. In my lifetime, which is now later 40s, I've probably lived through more change to daily living than what most generations ever had. My entire working life which started in '84 has been one of continual adaption and upskilling.

As for the Queen approving the sacking of the Whitlam government, that was the point I was making. What would have happened to us if there wasn't that neutral umpire to make the call, what would the alternative have been like?

Still no-one in this thread has put up a good argument for why.

Saying it's time or that we should, or, 'It's the vibe of the thing' doesn't cut it for me.
Plus, a referendum is another waste of money. It will only return a 'No' vote.
 

MaddAdam

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Yet there's a clear majority in the BF referendum for yes.

And Christopher Pyne and Paul Keating are on the same side of a debate.

Accept it monarchist toads, the people are against you.
 
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Still no-one in this thread has put up a good argument for why.

Their only argument is that an Australian should be Australia's head of state. Yes, possibly, but the fact that the head of state is not an Australian doesn't really affect me all that much.

Dispensing with the Australian constitutional monarchy would be a significant change and not necessarily one for the better. I'm yet to be convinced that having a republic is a better political system for Australia than a constitutional monarchy and certainly haven't a read a good argument for such in this thread.
 

MaddAdam

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Interestingly, if the Queen, whom all political power in Australia derives from, were in Melbourne this weekend, she'd have her visa checked as she's not an Australian citizen.

What a laughable state of affairs.
 
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