Opinion The Roughy Experiment - should we persist?

[TempleKelvington]

Lake never really flew for marks in the backline. He pretty much used to just position himself at the drop of the ball and outbody his opponent and take an easy mark.

Yeah different players in lots of ways, Jones is more athletic, much quicker. I think it was 2 seasons ago when Jones was 1st or second in the league at one stage for contested marks, that year he was used in the ruck a lot and he out marked opponents all round the ground. So yes he can fly for marks but he's very good one out. I think he just needs to be behind the ball and he will be more comfortable. We need another key position back almost as much as key position forward. We have a guy who is a great athlete, big and can mark. He is just not a forward in my opinion, not at this stage anyway.

 

[Snake Livermore]

We need another key position back almost as much as key position forward. We have a guy who is a great athlete, big and can mark. He is just not a forward in my opinion, not at this stage anyway.

It's interesting that so many other KPP on our list has been tried/developed forward and back:
Williams
Roughead
Cordy
Austin
Markovic
Roberts
Redpath

Only ones beside Jones who haven't been tried at either end are Morris and Talia, who are career lock down merchants. So there must be a reason the coaches don't try Jones back. I'm not sure if it's lack of discipline/concentration (disastrous in backline) or just that they are so convinced he is going to be a forward that they're pouring all his development there. Or some other reason? I'd love to know.

 

[TempleKelvington]

It's interesting that so many other KPP on our list has been tried/developed forward and back:
Williams
Roughead
Cordy
Austin
Markovic
Roberts
Redpath

Only ones beside Jones who haven't been tried at either end are Morris and Talia, who are career lock down merchants. So there must be a reason the coaches don't try Jones back. I'm not sure if it's lack of discipline/concentration (disastrous in backline) or just that they are so convinced he is going to be a forward that they're pouring all his development there. Or some other reason? I'd love to know.

Me too....surely it's worth a go? I also like that they have given him every chance up forward and he may still make it there. But it I think it's because we so desperately need a forward.

 

[True Dog]

Me too....surely it's worth a go? I also like that they have given him every chance up forward and he may still make it there. But it I think it's because we so desperately need a forward.

I with you, surely even a quarter here or there to see... It couldn't hurt??

 

[Reptilia]

I just have a few questions on Roughy.

I haven't played much football in my life.. just did auskick and played for parkside under 10s or something like that for a year... so I dont have much of an understanding of structures and all that jazz.. all I've known is my love for the bulldogs and have watched them relentlessly ever since I was about 12.

So all I really understand is if our team is slow or fast or not hard at it etc etc.

So from what I have noticed of Roughy is.. he is a good mark.. very good at running across a back of a pack and taking the mark. Has good skills.. but to me he just lacks something.. like smarts and natural instinct of where to pass to and so on.

Now i think there is a chance that this could be due to lack of confidence.. but am I right in what I have said.. ?

 

[Libba39]

I just have a few questions on Roughy.

I haven't played much football in my life.. just did auskick and played for parkside under 10s or something like that for a year... so I dont have much of an understanding of structures and all that jazz.. all I've known is my love for the bulldogs and have watched them relentlessly ever since I was about 12.

So all I really understand is if our team is slow or fast or not hard at it etc etc.

So from what I have noticed of Roughy is.. he is a good mark.. very good at running across a back of a pack and taking the mark. Has good skills.. but to me he just lacks something.. like smarts and natural instinct of where to pass to and so on.

Now i think there is a chance that this could be due to lack of confidence.. but am I right in what I have said.. ?

Personally I think we have a ruck/forward who wasn't doing that well so we've tried to turn him into a tall backman. For me he is just not mobile enough to succeed long term in this position as he is always going to get beaten for pace or on the ground by the elite tall forwards such as Cloke, Roughead from Hawthorn, or pavlich. And if the opposition forwrd line goes small then what do we do with him?
He is a great match up for resting rucks such as vickery, pyke, and hale but i fear the negatives may outweigh the positives in the long run. He may improve his skills and judgment over time but nobody will convince me that he will gain pace and mobility.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

I think his speed and mobility are his greatest weaknesses. He seems a few kg's top heavy. Needs to get quicker off the mark! That first 5, he seems slow to accelerate.

Only young though.

 

[koby01]

Would love to see roughy in the ruck, running around the ground and using his marking ability to our advantage more.

Floating forward from the ruck and causing havoc!

I think the lesson he has learned at full back is all about desperation and learning that you need a defensive game!

If he can take this now through the middle and around the ground, would be a great asset in my opinion!

 

[Anja_Nees]

Yeah different players in lots of ways, Jones is more athletic, much quicker. I think it was 2 seasons ago when Jones was 1st or second in the league at one stage for contested marks, that year he was used in the ruck a lot and he out marked opponents all round the ground. So yes he can fly for marks but he's very good one out. I think he just needs to be behind the ball and he will be more comfortable. We need another key position back almost as much as key position forward. We have a guy who is a great athlete, big and can mark. He is just not a forward in my opinion, not at this stage anyway.

For what it's worth, Jones is currently second in the league for contested marks to Travis Cloke. It's still a great strength but the problem is he only really gets them when he can jump for them. He's not as good at wrestling one on one.

 

[tazhawk]

Would love to see roughy in the ruck, running around the ground and using his marking ability.

You already see that.

Oh sorry you meant the Bulldogs Roughy.

 

[boydsno1]

Haahaha cheeky Taz. I still think he can make it as a Ruck/Forward. Apart from one contest against Carlile forward he hit the packs hard and brought the ball to ground. His mobility as a ruckman could be good but we would need to find a replacement backman.

Redpath has looked ok but being injured for a few weeks now will hurt his chances of staying on the list.

 

[King Harold]

Personally I think we have a ruck/forward who wasn't doing that well so we've tried to turn him into a tall backman. For me he is just not mobile enough to succeed long term in this position as he is always going to get beaten for pace or on the ground by the elite tall forwards such as Cloke, Roughead from Hawthorn, or pavlich. And if the opposition forwrd line goes small then what do we do with him?
He is a great match up for resting rucks such as vickery, pyke, and hale but i fear the negatives may outweigh the positives in the long run. He may improve his skills and judgment over time but nobody will convince me that he will gain pace and mobility.

Sums up what I have been thinking exactly, in fact because of a bare cupboard we have been trying to make what are basically ruckman into key position players at both ends.
Never seen it work before and can't see it working now.
But as you say given the right match up, Roughy can be ok.

 

[tazhawk]

Haahaha cheeky Taz. I still think he can make it as a Ruck/Forward. Apart from one contest against Carlile forward he hit the packs hard and brought the ball to ground. His mobility as a ruckman could be good but we would need to find a replacement backman.

Redpath has looked ok but being injured for a few weeks now will hurt his chances of staying on the list.

Maybe we could see Roughie playing on Roughie this weekend.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Over 12 months on I'd thought I'd give this a bump. See what people think.

 

[BRG93]

The Bloke Shoulders are hanging on by a thread at the moment he isn't 100% but he is fighting on manfully
He will be good in the long term

 

[fronkalicious]

Absolutely. Bear in mind we need to combat guys like Patton, Boyd, Dixon, Tippett and the resting ruck types (hale, zac clarke, bellchambers, vickery, kreuzer etc).

I see Talia taking the guys like roughie, buddy, cameron, Schulz. Roughie taking the taller types and Roberts/cordy/lever taking the Gunston/gooses types.

 

[PJPoet]

I wouldn't be opposed to resting him for the rest of the year/put him into surgery so he's ready to go day one of pre-season. We probably have more to gain by playing Roberts and Talia at this point of the season than playing a half-fit Roughead. He's clearly injured and his performances are suffering. Time to get him right

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Absolutely. Bear in mind we need to combat guys like Patton, Boyd, Dixon, Tippett and the resting ruck types (hale, zac clarke, bellchambers, vickery, kreuzer etc).

I see Talia taking the guys like roughie, buddy, cameron, Schulz. Roughie taking the taller types and Roberts/cordy/lever taking the Gunston/gooses types.

I recall Tippett kililng him last year (very often on the lead) in the game we played last year.
He wasn't even considered for Morris in our win earlier this year, Morris was.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Yes, we should.

He's not going to be 'the answer' down back, but I see him as a key part of the defensive unit going forward. Complements Talia, Sid and Zaine Cordy (rate him when he's not standing the giants) really nicely.

Defensive unit will come together in the next couple of years, a little bit of tinkering, a few more games on the likes of Tippett, Franklin and other Roughie and we'll be just fine. Starting to warm to the idea of selecting Lever and cooling on Laverde, in that respect, but ask me again in a week

If Roughie wasn't to play at full back, where would people have him? Relief ruck/backman, forward, ruckman?

 

[fronkalicious]

I recall Tippett kililng him last year (very often on the lead) in the game we played last year.
He wasn't even considered for Morris in our win earlier this year, Morris was.

Roughie was all of 22 at the time with less than 50 games under his belt and less than 10 as a key defamer.

Don't also underestimate the importance of having a key defender that can mark the ball. Roughie is clearly the best at that.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Its the hair cut I tell you.

http://www.justcutsstyle.com.au/

 

[yebiga]

I just have a few questions on Roughy.

I haven't played much football in my life.. just did auskick and played for parkside under 10s or something like that for a year... so I dont have much of an understanding of structures and all that jazz.. all I've known is my love for the bulldogs and have watched them relentlessly ever since I was about 12.

So all I really understand is if our team is slow or fast or not hard at it etc etc.

So from what I have noticed of Roughy is.. he is a good mark.. very good at running across a back of a pack and taking the mark. Has good skills.. but to me he just lacks something.. like smarts and natural instinct of where to pass to and so on.

Now i think there is a chance that this could be due to lack of confidence.. but am I right in what I have said.. ?

Lacks one thing, speed off the mark. You can train and improve it a little but not much. He is great against any resting ruckman but against genuine forward with some toe off the mark forgetaboutit.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

I with you, surely even a quarter here or there to see... It couldn't hurt??

Jones playing back happened earlier this year during a last quarter (maybe v Crows?) and believe me it HURT and is probably the reason it hasn't happened since and shouldn't again.

 

[immortalmike]

Jones playing back happened earlier this year during a last quarter (maybe v Crows?) and believe me it HURT and is probably the reason it hasn't happened since and shouldn't again.

Yet he dominated from CHB in the Indigenous All stars game last year. I think we make up our mind too early. I remember Brian Lake being destroyed a few times in his early career as a back, ditto Matthew Croft.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Some more talk about this is other threads - thoughts?