The rucks - who, how many, and impact on the forward line

[saintbill]

Markworth looks in great nick. Would love to see him cement a spot in the side on a HFF as he adds a completely different look to the forward line. The following set up could be pretty dangerous:

Markworth Reiwoldt Templeton
Saad White Membrey

Now that is a flexible forward line. You have pace, serious pace. Saad, Markworth, White & Templeton is a quick forward line. You have aerial threats in Reiwoldt, White & Membrey. Additionally Markworth's combo of pace and height could make him an awkward match up potentially resulting in him getting the 4th tallest defender who he is likely to have a significant height advantage over. You also have crumbing potential (something we missed big time last year) with both Saad and Templeton a threat on the ground.

Finally, you have 3 guys in Markwoth, Templeton and Membrey that could rotate further up the ground. This would allow Billings, Steven & occasionally Montagna to rest forward. These 3 would bring the class factor. There are a lot of unknowns with that forward line, but it looks pretty good on paper at least.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Quite like it but who is the 2nd ruck option out of that lot? I think the club probably has Bruce pencilled in for that forward/ruck role that Rhys was playing last year.

 

[Dopey BJ]

Quite like it but who is the 2nd ruck option out of that lot? I think the club probably has Bruce pencilled in for that forward/ruck role that Rhys was playing last year.

Would love to see Lewie Pierce get a crack at it

 

[aussierulesrules]

Would love to see Lewie Pierce get a crack at it

If we had Roo and Pierce in the same forward line it may leave only the one spot for all of Bruce, Lee, White, McCartin and maybe even Membrey and I don't think that is ideal at all, as we'd probably be keen to have a good look at all of that lot.

It would leave Sandringham with a ridiculously strong forward line though, something like this!:

F: Lee McCartin TDL
HF: Murdoch Bruce Membrey

 

[saintbill]

Quite like it but who is the 2nd ruck option out of that lot? I think the club probably has Bruce pencilled in for that forward/ruck role that Rhys was playing last year.

My ideal scenario is to play Bruce in the back pocket but still have him pinch hit in the ruck. This gives us so much more flexibility, however it is not going to happen. The next favourite option is to swap out White for Bruce, although I am not sold on Bruce in a forward role.

Option 3 is to still go with the forward line I mentioned in the previous post and still play both of Hickey and Longer and manipulate the sub rule the best we can to limit the time they are both on the ground as much as possible.

For example, plan to sub off Longer at 3 quarter time. Have him go hard for 2 quarters with roughly 1 quarter on the bench. For the first 3 quarters Hickey spends 1 quarter rucking, maybe 1 quarter roughly on the bench and 1 quarter up forward.

Sub Longer off at 3 quarter time and have Hickey see out the last with plenty of energy in the tank. We only have to have a ruck resting forward for 1 out of the 4 quarters. With the more flexible forward line I presented in the previous post we would have more midfield rotations therefore sharing the workload, therefore affording us plenty of bench time for the 2 rucks.

It sounds good in my head, but all it takes is one injury and you can't sub off one off Hickey and Longer and their forward time goes up. I am really really don't like the look off either of Hickey and Longer spending considerable time forward. We need forward pressure, and pace. It was like a Sunday stroll for opposition waltzing out of our forward line last year.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Haha, yeah none of our 2nd ruck options really appeal this year at all, whether it be someone undersized and inexperienced doing it, or us playing both Hickey and Longer (or Pierce/Holmes). We've just got to make the best of a bad situation this year I think and hope that Lewie Pierce really comes on in leaps and bounds this year up forward for Sandy, to give us someone for that role for the long-term.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I reckon that Longer is finding himself quickly losing ground to Pierce in the race of the two rucks.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Haha, yeah none of our 2nd ruck options really appeal this year at all. We've just got to make the best of a bad situation I think and hope that Lewie Pierce really comes on in leaps and bounds this year up forward for Sandy, to give us someone for that role for the long-term.

Dude, if he leaps and bounds around the forward line, that'd be a great result!

 

[Periphery]

My ideal scenario is to play Bruce in the back pocket but still have him pinch hit in the ruck. This gives us so much more flexibility, however it is not going to happen.

Why isn't it going to happen?

 

[Persevering Saint]

Why isn't it going to happen?

Because when asked, Bruce has emphatically told us that he's a forward now, first and foremost.

 

[Periphery]

Because when asked, Bruce has emphatically told us that he's a forward now, first and foremost.

Whoops, I didn't read that very well. I kinda glossed over "back pocket" and replaced it with "front pocket" and that's why I was confused about why it wouldn't happen.

Ignore me. Carry on.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Because when asked, Bruce has emphatically told us that he's a forward now, first and foremost.

Tall enough to pinch hit too.

 

[ike2112]

I also think Bruce is the preferred current option by the coaches for fwd/ruck.
However they will be hoping someone else comes through and takes that role off him, because if they do a) they'll be a great asset in their own right and a good level by that point, and b) it frees up Bruce to play at the back.

Note although some are tearing up preseason, all evidence so far suggests Saints will play with only 5 forwards and name their tagger in the forward line.

Sad though it makes me, I think it's Eli and Saad playing for 1 slot.

2 talls, Roo and White
1 tall/ruck, Bruce
1 'medium' fwd; Membrey, Lee, Markworth, Murdoch
1 small; Eli or Saad
1 tagger or defensive pressure player; Curren, Weller

 

[Desi Van_83]

I also think Bruce is the preferred current option by the coaches for fwd/ruck.
However they will be hoping someone else comes through and takes that role off him, because if they do a) they'll be a great asset in their own right and a good level by that point, and b) it frees up Bruce to play at the back.

Note although some are tearing up preseason, all evidence so far suggests Saints will play with only 5 forwards and name their tagger in the forward line.

Sad though it makes me, I think it's Eli and Saad playing for 1 slot.

2 talls, Roo and White
1 tall/ruck, Bruce
1 'medium' fwd; Membrey, Lee, Markworth, Murdoch
1 small; Eli or Saad
1 tagger or defensive pressure player; Curren, Weller

What about Peirce as the rck/fwd? I haven't seen him in action yet, but he has some wraps.

 

[Barrels]

Bruce - at 196cm - a forward/ruck?

Not sure that's a great option, but granted I don't see a whole lot else; neither Hickey nor Longer have shown heaps forward, and Pierce is a bit of an unknown.

I suppose Roughead rucks at the Hawks, Walker at the Cats... Stefan Martin is 'only' 198cm... Not sure Brucey's got the world's biggest leap though.

Does it mean our forward setup is likely to be;

HF: Membrey - Riewoldt - Billings
FF: Saad* - Lee - Bruce

At least initially?

 

[ike2112]

More likely

Eli / Roo / Billings
Curren / White / Bruce

Or

Eli / Roo / Billings
Curren / Bruce / Markworth

Based on last season, we are unlikely to play with 6 forwards. Probably have a 6th on interchange.

Also, has Saad been elevated? He's not eligible to play until he is, and also I expect that his fitness will have taken a hit.

 

[toxic]

More likely

Eli / Roo / Billings
Curren / White / Bruce

Or

Eli / Roo / Billings
Curren / Bruce / Markworth

Based on last season, we are unlikely to play with 6 forwards. Probably have a 6th on interchange.

Also, has Saad been elevated? He's not eligible to play until he is, and also I expect that his fitness will have taken a hit.

No Membrey?
Reckon he's a certainty to play

 

[TheJackal]

Controversy time. The more I look at forward line options the more I'm thinking that having Rooey in there could be stunting the development of the next wave over the next year or two. The next wave being Bruce, Lee, White, McCartin, Membrey, (Markworth, Sippo, Murdoch), then the rucks.

I idolise Roo, he is a legend of our club - he exits on his terms and plays where he wants. I'm cool with that, but will it effect the development of all of these talls to have Roo in there?

I don't think there is a solution to that other than to have him play as a very high forward mainly running up and down the wings, for the betterment of a developing list and it would still utilise his strengths imo.

It's just a thought, I'm not begging Roo, I just want the best for the development of our list to win us our next flag

 

[holllywood]

Controversy time. The more I look at forward line options the more I'm thinking that having Rooey in there could be stunting the development of the next wave over the next year or two. The next wave being Bruce, Lee, White, McCartin, Membrey, (Markworth, Sippo, Murdoch), then the rucks.

I idolise Roo, he is a legend of our club - he exits on his terms and plays where he wants. I'm cool with that, but will it effect the development of all of these talls to have Roo in there?

I don't think there is a solution to that other than to have him play as a very high forward mainly running up and down the wings, for the betterment of a developing list and it would still utilise his strengths imo.

It's just a thought, I'm not begging Roo, I just want the best for the development of our list to win us our next flag

There is more to development than simply just playing games in the AFL.

The VFL is still a very good tool for young players to work on, and if those players you mentioned can play a handful of games in the AFL while also playings finals in the VFL then it would be a good outcome.

But Roo on the park would be better for the development for the whole team. We are more likely to win games with him in the team, he will take the first defender and he makes every Saint player walk taller.

We may 'lose' 20 odd games of 'development' by playing with him this year but we will be a better team in every one of those games, which will boost the development of all the other young players playing with him that week.

 

[CursingFijian]

Controversy time. The more I look at forward line options the more I'm thinking that having Rooey in there could be stunting the development of the next wave over the next year or two. The next wave being Bruce, Lee, White, McCartin, Membrey, (Markworth, Sippo, Murdoch), then the rucks.

I idolise Roo, he is a legend of our club - he exits on his terms and plays where he wants. I'm cool with that, but will it effect the development of all of these talls to have Roo in there?

I don't think there is a solution to that other than to have him play as a very high forward mainly running up and down the wings, for the betterment of a developing list and it would still utilise his strengths imo.

It's just a thought, I'm not begging Roo, I just want the best for the development of our list to win us our next flag

Not to mention that the club is probably also very motivated to get him to 300 games.

 

[ike2112]

No Membrey?
Reckon he's a certainty to play

Yeah he could be in line ahead of Markworth, I personally haven't seen any preseason just reading people's views from various places. People seem really high on how Markworth has looked through preseason.

Could be:
Eli / Roo / Billings
Curren / Bruce / Membrey

Who would you leave out, based on how they're going in preseason?

If we work on the basis that:
- we will only have 5 real forwards on the field most of the time (I did analysis on this recently, we actually played a lot of time with only 4 and almost never had 6 actual forwards on the field at same time).
- we will play Bruce or another tall/ruck-reliever based on structure (see our willingness to play Maister then Simpkin, based purely on structure rather than talent/suitability)
- Billings is still looking a bit too sleight of frame to be anything other than forward flank at the moment (which is where I think he is best-suited for this year anyway)
- Roo will play when fit
- we will play a small forward, crumbing type but probably high-energy given Richo's obsession with pressure

You therefore have Roo, Billings, a Tall/Ruck Relief (probably Bruce), a Small Fwd (probably Eli or maybe Saad), a Defensive Mid (probably Weller or Curren if Weller is free to play on-ball).

So there's really only one spot up for grabs in the starting 18 I'd say, with Saad/Eli likely to get the interchange spot. Perhaps they play Membrey but have Markworth as sub?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I reckon that Longer is finding himself quickly losing ground to Pierce in the race of the two rucks.

Pierce's form has been clearly superior to Longer's thus far this season

 

[Defacto]

i'm secretly (well not anymore now that i've posted this) that we upgrade holmes and chuck him in the deep end. i think he's one that will just find his feet pretty quick

 

[Persevering Saint]

i'm secretly (well not anymore now that i've posted this) that we upgrade holmes and chuck him in the deep end. i think he's one that will just find his feet pretty quick

Now that WOULD be a fascinating rookie upgrade. I think there'd be a chance of it, actually, if Hickey isn't quite right.

 

[Defacto]

Now that WOULD be a fascinating rookie upgrade. I think there'd be a chance of it, actually, if Hickey isn't quite right.

i agree mate, with hickey i just hope we approach this season cautiously with him. he's too good to break