The state of the game internationally

[jatz14]

WFN end of year summary on footy internationally

World footy 2012

 

[Barkly St End]

Here is an update from WFN about the state of the game in South Africa.
Article says that the GFC hit the developmaent of footy hard there, but is now picking up again.
In 2012, there were over 20000 participants there (primary school kids, youth, open age players, coaches and volunteers) and the country now has 8 Australian Rules grounds, with footy goalposts, the grounds doubling as cricket grounds.

http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20121228232510957

The development of the game in South Africa is a perfect illustration of why it's so difficult for the game to develop anywhere.

Here we are celebrating that a country now has eight ovals upon which Australian Football can be played, more than likely, the biggest number anywhere outside of the Australasian region - and yet it's only 8.

 

[Cmarsh]

The development of the game in South Africa is a perfect illustration of why it's so difficult for the game to develop anywhere.

Here we are celebrating that a country now has eight ovals upon which Australian Football can be played, more than likely, the biggest number anywhere outside of the Australasian region - and yet it's only 8.

However, to put it in perspective, in the Central Western region of NSW where I reside, an area not too much smaller than Germany, I would have my doubts if there were more than 8 dedicated Australian Rules grounds.

 

[jatz14]

The development of the game in South Africa is a perfect illustration of why it's so difficult for the game to develop anywhere.

Here we are celebrating that a country now has eight ovals upon which Australian Football can be played, more than likely, the biggest number anywhere outside of the Australasian region - and yet it's only 8.

AFL has been pushing footy in SA seriously for what, 3, 4 years? You can have a viable footy comp without any dedicated Footy grounds at all, just stick some temporary posts up in a park. 8 grounds is huge, and what will it be in another 10 years. That they have got officials in SA to agree to formerly designating grounds for footy is a good indication that there are some people taking the developement of footy seriously in South Africa.

 

[Barkly St End]

AFL has been pushing footy in SA seriously for what, 3, 4 years? You can have a viable footy comp without any dedicated Footy grounds at all, just stick some temporary posts up in a park. 8 grounds is huge, and what will it be in another 10 years. That they have got officials in SA to agree to formerly designating grounds for footy is a good indication that there are some people taking the developement of footy seriously in South Africa.

Yes, I agree it's huge news, but it also underscores the difficulty in establishing strong Australian Football competitions overseas.

Yes, you can plonk posts in the ground, in any space you find (as the majority of leagues overseas already do), and while that's happening, that's an indication of the health of the game. It's when you no longer need to plonk posts in any space you can find that the first steps to viable and sustainable competitions are being made.

By the way, the development work in South Africa started around a decade ago.

 

[fabulousphil]

Yes, I agree it's huge news, but it also underscores the difficulty in establishing strong Australian Football competitions overseas.

Yes, you can plonk posts in the ground, in any space you find (as the majority of leagues overseas already do), and while that's happening, that's an indication of the health of the game. It's when you no longer need to plonk posts in any space you can find that the first steps to viable and sustainable competitions are being made.

By the way, the development work in South Africa started around a decade ago.

Very awkward to find suitable areas for 18 a side comps, even O/S cricket grounds are usually way smaller than their Australian counterparts, i have always thought 9 aside on rugby/soccer fields is the way to go, in fact i would go so far as to say that the future of the game O/S will eventually be based around this.

I have thought for a while that 18 a side is to many, even in Australia, but that is not to say i am against the game expanding, but sourcing grounds, volunteers and players to play 22 a side must be extremely taxing, it's hard work even in strong football areas.

 

[Barkly St End]

Very awkward to find suitable areas for 18 a side comps, even O/S cricket grounds are usually way smaller than their Australian counterparts, i have always thought 9 aside on rugby/soccer fields is the way to go, in fact i would go so far as to say that the future of the game O/S will eventually be based around this.

I have thought for a while that 18 a side is to many, even in Australia, but that is not to say i am against the game expanding, but sourcing grounds, volunteers and players to play 22 a side must be extremely taxing, it's hard work even in strong football areas.

Agree with all of that.

The time must be fast approaching where we need to look at 16-a-side being the norm in Australia, a rule that has been used in the past (in the VFA for one).

Overseas, 9-a-side is probably the way to go because of the resources the game demands, with competitions working their way to perhaps 14-a-side as they continue to grow.

 

[fabulousphil]

Agree with all of that.

The time must be fast approaching where we need to look at 16-a-side being the norm in Australia, a rule that has been used in the past (in the VFA for one).

Overseas, 9-a-side is probably the way to go because of the resources the game demands, with competitions working their way to perhaps 14-a-side as they continue to grow.

Getting off track now, but i reckon the AFL really want to restrict the interchanges and reduce the number of players to 16, but predictably would be to scared to publicly say that.

The problem is that lower levels of football dont need that, as they don't have the levels of fitness to clog up the backline by flooding to the same degree as AFL teams.

Anyway, good to see the game having some more growth in SA, and i hope to see some more SA kids rookie listed, or at the least playing in lower leagues around the country, similar to PNG kids in Cairns, Townville and Brisbane.

 

[cos789]

The development of the game in South Africa is a perfect illustration of why it's so difficult for the game to develop anywhere.

Here we are celebrating that a country now has eight ovals upon which Australian Football can be played, more than likely, the biggest number anywhere outside of the Australasian region - and yet it's only 8.

I'm not sure that you're reading that right. If you say they are 8 "elite" grounds then that is fantastic.
That's like the number of WAFL or SANFL grounds. I would say that they would conduct football business on many local "ovals" or school grounds, whatever was available.

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[cos789]

The time must be fast approaching where we need to look at 16-a-side being the norm in Australia, .

The AFL is getting more removed from general football all the time and IMO we need something like the national council to oversee football in general. Leagues in Australia and overseas should be flexible in both areas of playing numbers and ground sizes and football in general is not influenced unduly by these factors.
The Laws of the Game should be written for football with an appendix for AFL and not the other way round.
If you don't have the resources for interchange stewards do you have the old head count?
People mention 9-a-side as if it is some radicle form of football but it plays out pretty much as we know football. IMO there are other areas that could be looked at to simplify and expediate the understanding of the game, like a goal is any ball that goes through the big posts, the kickoff being a 15m box like a free kick and if a ball is kicked out - it is kicked back in.

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[Barkly St End]

I'm not sure that you're reading that right. If you say they are 8 "elite" grounds then that is fantastic.

.

I'm not sure whether they are elite grounds or not, more than likely, it's simply a case of being allowed to keep posts up at either end, and mark out the field for a full season.

It's great news, but it underscores why it's so difficult to establish full ground, full team competitions in other countries.

In most other places, you're lucky if you can find one fully marked out groun and have use of it for a whole season.

It makes sense that the AFL focuses most of its attention on countries where cricket ovals already exist: NZ, Sth Africa, England, Wales, India, Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, Kenya and the West Indies. It actually makes sense to partner with local cricket authorities to make use of ovals for 12 months of the year.

In places where cricket is a minor sport, like Canada and Holland, it might make even more sense to partner with local cricket authorities, optimising the use of scarce sporting infrastructure.

 

[cos789]

It makes sense that the AFL focuses most of its attention on countries where cricket ovals already exist.

Not as a single or primary concern. Population seems to be a big one e.g. China, but when India comes along with both population, cricket ovals and a new business flair - that's interesting.

It actually makes sense to partner with local cricket authorities to make use of ovals for 12 months of the year.

It always makes sense to form partnerships. Football is killing rl North of the Vic border because it is in partnership with Netball. A huge number number of AFCs overseas benefit from some form of association with RU clubs. IMO, cricket ovals come into play as an arena to showcase the game not quite as an everyday neccesssity.

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[Barkly St End]

Not as a single or primary concern. Population seems to be a big one e.g. China, but when India comes along with both population, cricket ovals and a new business flair - that's interesting.

It always makes sense to form partnerships. Football is killing rl North of the Vic border because it is in partnership with Netball. A huge number number of AFCs overseas benefit from some form of association with RU clubs. IMO, cricket ovals come into play as an arena to showcase the game not quite as an everyday neccesssity.

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All good points.

The footy/netball partnerships in regional Victoria and Southern NSW are worth having a look at. Originally done out of necessity - it has been an absolute winner.

 

[Cmarsh]

I'm not sure that you're reading that right. If you say they are 8 "elite" grounds then that is fantastic.
That's like the number of WAFL or SANFL grounds. I would say that they would conduct football business on many local "ovals" or school grounds, whatever was available.

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Cos if you look at the link I provided to the South Africa article on WFN, you will find pictures of the grounds. It's obvious they are far from "elite".

 

[cos789]

However, to put it in perspective, in the Central Western region of NSW where I reside, an area not too much smaller than Germany, I would have my doubts if there were more than 8 dedicated Australian Rules grounds.

I drove along the Sturt Highway and saw plenty of football grounds and not one rugby post.

 

[cos789]

Cos if you look at the link I provided to the South Africa article on WFN, you will find pictures of the grounds. It's obvious they are far from "elite".

Because they didn't post the pay cricket grounds.

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[Cmarsh]

I drove along the Sturt Highway and saw plenty of football grounds and not one rugby post.

The Sturt Highway runs from Adelaide to Tarcutta in Southern NSW. Along that highway has fairly strong traditional AR culture. I'm talking about the area further North, which is a strong RL area.

 

[Aucklander]

The Sturt Highway runs from Adelaide to Tarcutta in Southern NSW. Along that highway has fairly strong traditional AR culture. I'm talking about the area further North, which is a strong RL area.

Meh. I've driven along parts of the Hume highway in Victoria and haven't seen goal posts relating to any sport. Drive into the towns though and that's a completely different story. I'm sure there would be "Rugby" goals posts in Wagga.

Back to the topic though, 2 Ovals for marquee games and 6 for local footy. That's a good start.

 

[fabulousphil]

However, to put it in perspective, in the Central Western region of NSW where I reside, an area not too much smaller than Germany, I would have my doubts if there were more than 8 dedicated Australian Rules grounds.

Could not find more of a RL area than the central west of NSW, although various towns i would imagine may have more of a RU orientation.

Notice that Young has joined, but Forbes is out, Young i guess is really part of the Riverina, but probably too weak for those leagues.

100k S/W from Forbes is West Wyalong that has had strong AF teams for a hundred years, 80k West of Young is Temora which won the Premiership this year in the Farrer League, which is reasonably strong.

I notice from the CWAFL website that there is a reserve, under 17, 14 and 12 league, and the Giants will probably grow the League more, but lets face it, any growth will probably be 3 step forword 2 back.

http://www.sportingpulse.com/comp_info.cgi?c=1-4701-0-202423-0&a=LADDER

 

[jatz14]

Not strictly related to the original post, but interesting developements in NZ where the Hawks have committed to listing a second NZ teenager in 2014. That will give them 2 NZ rookies and 2 or 3 scholarship holders. Article at world footy news. They have also posted an article showing that the issue of an AFL team in NZ is definately on the AFLs radar http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20130107224730940, although it is a dream rather than a plan at this point. I suppose the issue is, how many NZ AFL players, and how much NZ support would be needed for the AFL to think it was worth a crack.

The article mentions 30 000 registered players, but it would seem this figure would include every kiwi that has even gone near a footy. Actuall seniors and older juniors playing on a semi regular basis probably amounts to a couple of thousand. The plus side is that they got 2 rookies out of that. What could a tripling or so of numbers over the next 5 - 10 years bring.

 

[Barkly St End]

Not strictly related to the original post, but interesting developements in NZ where the Hawks have committed to listing a second NZ teenager in 2014. That will give them 2 NZ rookies and 2 or 3 scholarship holders. Article at world footy news. They have also posted an article showing that the issue of an AFL team in NZ is definately on the AFLs radar http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20130107224730940, although it is a dream rather than a plan at this point. I suppose the issue is, how many NZ AFL players, and how much NZ support would be needed for the AFL to think it was worth a crack.

The article mentions 30 000 registered players, but it would seem this figure would include every kiwi that has even gone near a footy. Actuall seniors and older juniors playing on a semi regular basis probably amounts to a couple of thousand. The plus side is that they got 2 rookies out of that. What could a tripling or so of numbers over the next 5 - 10 years bring.

It' terrific news, potentially a game changer.

The two they signed, Heatherly and Shem Tatupu were spotted in the various rep games the play around the Pacific - that's the key.

 

[Aucklander]

The article mentions 30 000 registered players, but it would seem this figure would include every kiwi that has even gone near a footy. Actuall seniors and older juniors playing on a semi regular basis probably amounts to a couple of thousand. The plus side is that they got 2 rookies out of that. What could a tripling or so of numbers over the next 5 - 10 years bring.

Gillon McLachlan "thinks" there is 30k registered players while your figure is much closer to the mark.

I don't know why people feel they need to exaggerate numbers. The game is clearly making some major strides without the need for that. Once some junior comps are up and running I can see some real headway happening.

 

[fabulousphil]

Gillon McLachlan "thinks" there is 30k registered players while your figure is much closer to the mark.

I don't know why people feel they need to exaggerate numbers. The game is clearly making some major strides without the need for that. Once some junior comps are up and running I can see some real headway happening.

Perhaps if he said participants !!, bit of a discussion on WFN about ' numbers' ATM, and FWIW i can see both sides.

I have very little doubt that 30,000 kids particiapted in auskick clinics over 8 weeks, either after school, or even on weekends or whatever, but as far as those kids playing club football on saturday, i have no doubt, that this did not happen.

So technically Gillon M is right, but is a viable self sustaining club comp in place ....... probably not.

 

[cos789]

Gillon McLachlan "thinks" there is 30k registered players while your figure is much closer to the mark.

I don't know why people feel they need to exaggerate numbers..

I think the word is misrepresentation.
It's OK to say there are 20k, 25k and now it seems 30k participants in Australian Football in NZ if it is qualified by the actual participation. The fact that the figure of 20k is now 30k supposedly means something as well as the logic that 30k kids participating will lead to X% of traditional involvement in the football pathway. The real question is what is "x%". Even if "x" is quite small it will lead to significant improvement in NZ community football which IMO is the real time measure.

.

 

[Aucklander]

I think the word is misrepresentation.
It's OK to say there are 20k, 25k and now it seems 30k participants in Australian Football in NZ if it is qualified by the actual participation. The fact that the figure of 20k is now 30k supposedly means something as well as the logic that 30k kids participating will lead to X% of traditional involvement in the football pathway. The real question is what is "x%". Even if "x" is quite small it will lead to significant improvement in NZ community football which IMO is the real time measure.

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Good points.