Analysis The theory that Collingwood wasn't broken post 2011

[PieNSauce]

The succession plan was agreed to in 2009, not 2011. Mick cost us the 2011 flag because he allowed his bitterness to infect the playing group. Had he accepted that his time as coach was drawing to a close he could have gone out as a Collingwood legend. We all saw how good Mick's coaching was when he returned to Carlton. Clearly his coaching ability had declined and this supports the decision by the club in 2009 to devise an exit strategy. Bucks is by far a better coach.

I agree with all of that. The reality is that when the plan was put in place Mick had run his race. He was effectively gone as a coach and IMO only the recruiting of Jolly and Ball has made his career at Collingwood look respectable.

What will always make my blood boil is the way he put himself ahead of the club and the players and by doing that he turned some of the players against the club and/or Bucks. In retrospect the club probably ought to have sacked him outright at the end of 2009 although we will never know whether we would have won the flag in 2010 had that happened or whether certain players would still have gone off the tracks. Although I will always be grateful that Mick helped bring us a flag, I will always see him as one of the most self centred, egotistical coaches of all time.

It must seem extremely bitter sweet to Eddie that his decision to save Mick from the sack at the end of 2009 has caused so much pleasure and yet so much pain! That said, I hold high hopes for Bucks and this newly rebuilt list. It's hard not to be excited about the future IMO.

 

[PerthBoy87]

I think that I made a mistake explaining Andrew. When I said no impact in the previous 2 years, I meant 2013 and 2012. He played 8 and 4 games respectively. If Jesus and Mary had been coaching the Pies during those years, they wouldnt have got more out of him. He wasn't young either and was due for retirement at the end of 2013. His injuries were another reason for the decline in team performance post 2011.

I suppose that the fact that I remain polite probably proves my stupidity...

Andrew had a good year in 2011 and finished second in Collingwood's goal kicking - not a bad effort for a guy who had three years away from the AFL system. Sadly he did his knee at the start of 2012 but did bloody good to get back for the final round (against Essendon) and then to play finals where in the Qualifying Final against Hawthorn he kicked 4 goals. But lack of game time and fitness caught up with him during the remaining games in that 2012 finals series, through no fault of his own - just lacked game time due to not playing most of 2012 with him hurting his knee.

2013 was an up and down season for him but he started to find his form and looked set to recapture part or perhaps the full form of 2011 but was dropped after a quiet game against the Gold Coast and didn't get back in the team. The Pies were after youth and delisted him at the end of the 2013 season.

It probably takes a player roughly two years to really get back to feeling good and confident after a knee reco and Andrew was starting to show small signs of that in 2013. If only he didn't hurt his knee at the start of 2012 - he could of kicked roughly the same number of goals he kicked in 2011, perhaps a tad more. When Andrew was out for most of that 2012 season due to the knee reco, Collingwood lost a 30 - 35 goal player which can be a fairly big hole to fill, losing scoring power is never good.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Krakoeur given his age and background was always a short term proposition, knee or no knee. Three first half goals in the 2011 GF justify the decision to pick him up.

 

[MarkT2]

I disagree with the OP but it's all been done to death and too may people sook up on here if you don't fall into line and agree with what the club does.

All I will add is that a rebuild v a flag tilt can't be measured only by who exited and who stayed because a different strategy would not only have changed the outs but also the ins. Hawthorn are the obvious comparison having successfully targeted needs and won flags. Freo haven't been able to land their targets and may have missed their chance now. None of it is an exact science of course and the alternatives are never provable.

 

[Anzacday]

The End

 

[Markfs]

Andrew had a good year in 2011 and finished second in Collingwood's goal kicking - not a bad effort for a guy who had three years away from the AFL system. Sadly he did his knee at the start of 2012 but did bloody good to get back for the final round (against Essendon) and then to play finals where in the Qualifying Final against Hawthorn he kicked 4 goals. But lack of game time and fitness caught up with him during the remaining games in that 2012 finals series, through no fault of his own - just lacked game time due to not playing most of 2012 with him hurting his knee.

2013 was an up and down season for him but he started to find his form and looked set to recapture part or perhaps the full form of 2011 but was dropped after a quiet game against the Gold Coast and didn't get back in the team. The Pies were after youth and delisted him at the end of the 2013 season.

It probably takes a player roughly two years to really get back to feeling good and confident after a knee reco and Andrew was starting to show small signs of that in 2013. If only he didn't hurt his knee at the start of 2012 - he could of kicked roughly the same number of goals he kicked in 2011, perhaps a tad more. When Andrew was out for most of that 2012 season due to the knee reco, Collingwood lost a 30 - 35 goal player which can be a fairly big hole to fill, losing scoring power is never good.

On an individual level, the club could have stuck with Krakouer for longer but his age was a problem, and the fact that he had only played 12 games over 2 years - even though part of it was because of injury. He did have his moments like the game against Hawthorn but I think you might be a little too supportive if you said that he was going to return to his best form. A lot of people have made a case in the past that he was prematurely eased out the door, but in the context of where the team was at the time, he was an obvious choice as one of the players that needed to go to make room for younger faces.

The End

I dont think the presence of this thread will have an impact on others that are more important like the Word Association thread.... I still get so much joy from reading that thread...I'm sure you feel the same.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

I dont think the presence of this thread will have an impact on others that are more important like the Word Association thread.... I still get so much joy from reading that thread...I'm sure you feel the same.

Welcome back Markman!

As a frequent contributor to Word Association I am pleased that 'salty' + 'ballbag' brings you joy.

 

[Markfs]

Welcome back Markman!

As a frequent contributor to Word Association I am pleased that 'salty' + 'ballbag' brings you joy.

Mitchell Johnson has inspired me. I looked around and it was a hot day.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Mitchell Johnson has inspired me. I looked around and it was a hot day.

well I hope you still play T20

 

[Markfs]

well I hope you still play T20

i'm working on a new project... best 22 without skid marks...

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

i'm working on a new project... best 22 without skid marks...

For BF or IMG?

 

[Markfs]

For BF or IMG?

depends if i can be bothered getting it passed by the censors....i think i've gone mitch but comebacks are in vogue

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

depends if i can be bothered getting it passed by the censors....i think i've gone mitch but comebacks are in vogue

Well I will miss your presence if you permanently retire. So I hope you at least make cameos.

Laughed with your comedy for a couple of years before I joined BF.

 

[partypie]

In the end we lost in 2011 because one team in particular had our defensive / low risk / around the boundary game play figured out and even taking that into account we just ran out of steam in last 40 minutes of the game.

It was pretty simple in the end and to be honest as much as it sucks that we were on the receiving end it's an age-old story line that has played out many times in the past and will continue to do so in the future - everything else is conjecture.