Opinion Those Twin Imposters...

[_Wang_]

Rudyard Kipling said it all: "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you. If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster and treat those two Impostors just the same; Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it."

Well maybe not the Earth and all but the sentiment remains the same, it's never as bad as it's painted after a bad loss or two and it's not all wine and roses after a good win or two, this season is proving that you cannot take anything for granted and all wins have to be earned (well, maybe not against Carlton, lol).
The sky had fallen in at Tigerland in round two when we were outplayed by the young Bulldogs, these same Dogs went 4-1 after a great win in Sydney and were the next Port Adelaide, these same Dogs have since given up a 55 point lead against St Kilda and lost to the Demons who were coming of a 105 point belting by the Hawks, a few pundits went a bit early on that one, but they ARE young and on the right track.
The Suns, after constant improvement, decided that a young coach couldn't take them any further and a supercoach was required, sound familiar , they are now 1-7 and have serious off field issues.
Port Adelaide were the pick of many to finish top four, and possibly win the flag, and Ken Hinkley was held up as "the next big thing" of coaching, they are 3-5 and in danger of missing the eight, but all is not lost at Port as they do have talent but are still a long way off, not as good as portrayed in the media and not as bad as some make out now, big test for Ken now.
West Coast are flying and are now "certainties" for the eight and possibly top four, as they were this time last season, Eagles have a long way to go, as have Adelaide who flew out of the blocks but have hit the wall a bit.
GWS are frightening!!
Geelong have yet to forget how to win, hanging on at 4-4.
Norf continue to be an even more frustrating side than us!
Melbourne, St Kilda and Brisbane will continue to struggle and will have the odd encouraging win but, along with Carlton and GC, will not play finals.
Fremantle (absolutely flying and with an experienced and talented list), Sydney and Hawthorn (despite being 4-4) seem like they will finish top 3.
I'm not getting carried away by the last two weeks, no need to extend Dimma's contract , but I won't get overly angry after our next loss, no need to call for Dimma's head either.

Tl;dr

 

[partycorolla]

We've had the easiest draw by miles guys
We haven't played Freo or Gws unlike wce
Lets be realistic here
We will get a true indication once we get to round 16 if the fixture is designed right. Haven't checked

The fixture isn't designed right.....

 

[TigerImposter]

Yeah I had a feeing about that. I thought two months ago i heard the afl CEO say they are looking at a 17/5 fixture in two years time
Every team plays each other once for first 17 games
Then the ladder gets divided into three groups of six teams who play each other once =5 games

Groups 1-6. 7-12. 13-18
Then there were all these other clauses

 

[Wild Westiger]

Terrific post! And quoting Kipling is a winner for me!

 

[ReaperX]

The criticism of Damien Hardwick was ABSOLUTELY warranted after that loss to the Bulldogs.

5 year coach with an established squad that supposed to be aiming for Top 4-6, losing to a very young team (albeit one that is better than I initially gave them credit for) with a 2nd game coach.

If we as supporters don't turn up the heat when Hardwick and the team is performing s**t, they won't have any reason to improve, because they'll be getting a free ride.

I want questions asked whenever we lose a game of footy, whether it's to Fremantle/Hawthorn, or Melbourne/Western Bulldogs.

We're never going to be the best when just accepting mediocrity, so when we play in a mediocre way, Dimma deserves every barb that comes his way. Just as Dimma and the players deserve every positive thing that is said when they perform to the standard required.

It's really that simple. Perform, and we'll be happy. Don't perform, and we're coming for your head, Dimma. Got it champ?

Now go beat Essendon.

 

[This Is Anfield]

The criticism of Damien Hardwick was ABSOLUTELY warranted after that loss to the Bulldogs.

5 year coach with an established squad that supposed to be aiming for Top 4-6, losing to a very young team (albeit one that is better than I initially gave them credit for) with a 2nd game coach.

If we as supporters don't turn up the heat when Hardwick and the team is performing s**t, they won't have any reason to improve, because they'll be getting a free ride.

I want questions asked whenever we lose a game of footy, whether it's to Fremantle/Hawthorn, or Melbourne/Western Bulldogs.

We're never going to be the best when just accepting mediocrity, so when we play in a mediocre way, Dimma deserves every barb that comes his way. Just as Dimma and the players deserve every positive thing that is said when they perform to the standard required.

It's really that simple. Perform, and we'll be happy. Don't perform, and we're coming for your head, Dimma. Got it champ?

Now go beat Essendon.

Constructive criticism, absolutely, inside and outside of the club, continued questioning of methods and tactics, absolutely, call for the sacking of the coach after 2 games (one win), bit extreme IMO.
Sometimes you lose a game after doing the majority of things right, s**t happens and you suck it up and go again, sometimes you lose a game after doing most things wrong, Melbourne, so you do your best to atone.
Funny game, footy, played by men and not by robots and sometimes they think they are giving 100% effort but are only giving minimum effort, all sides have these patches, and confidence is either sky high (Freo), rock bottom (Blues, Suns) or elusive (Port now and us early), we should have plenty of confidence going into Sat night and the cheats shouldn't be short of it either, expecting a really hard fought game and close, will be very surprised if we don't give a good account of ourselves.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

This is Footy...common sense doesn't belong around here...only full blown passion...everthing else is pale by comparison...

 

[ReaperX]

Constructive criticism, absolutely, inside and outside of the club, continued questioning of methods and tactics, absolutely, call for the sacking of the coach after 2 games (one win), bit extreme IMO.
Sometimes you lose a game after doing the majority of things right, s**t happens and you suck it up and go again, sometimes you lose a game after doing most things wrong, Melbourne, so you do your best to atone.
Funny game, footy, played by men and not by robots and sometimes they think they are giving 100% effort but are only giving minimum effort, all sides have these patches, and confidence is either sky high (Freo), rock bottom (Blues, Suns) or elusive (Port now and us early), we should have plenty of confidence going into Sat night and the cheats shouldn't be short of it either, expecting a really hard fought game and close, will be very surprised if we don't give a good account of ourselves.

I agree with most of your post mate, and I do think you're a quality poster, but I do take exception to the bolded part here.

The people who were saying Hardwick's time was up (and I was one of them), weren't going off simply "2 games this season". They were going off the poor performances since post-2013, both off field (lack of quality trading, bad trades), and also on-field performance (playing players out of position, not having a plan b, etc)

Granted, the frustration we were all feeling probably made some of our comments a bit over the top, won't deny that. However, to suggest that people were calling for his head simply because of the early part of this season is a bit rich as well.

I know personally, I've been a Dimma defender for basically his entire tenure, however there comes a tipping point where questions need to be asked. With that said, I've always had the opinion that if Dimma was able to turn things around, I'd support him again, because ultimately all I want is a successful RFC, and I'm happy to have Dimma at the helm if he's the one to make that happen.

But after 5 years, and starting to see the graph go downwards, I had some serious doubts that he would be the man to do it. And despite the solid performances of the last fortnight, Dimma still needs to show us that not only he, but also this playing group, has indeed turned the corner FOR GOOD!

That doesn't mean winning every single match from here on out and finishing 18-4 (although that would be nice >.>), but what it does mean is CONSISTENTLY turning up, and making the RFC a team that other teams dread playing, because they know they'll get bashed up and have constant pressure on them.

Finally, and just to reiterate, a coach who's been in the chair for over 5 years, and still hasn't won a final with the team, should only ever be 1 or 2 poor performances away from having serious questions asked of him, imho. So if we turn it shitful performances against Essendon and Fremantle, I would expect the pressure to ramp right back up, and so it bloody should.

Otherwise, we'll never be more than a mediocre footy club.

 

[This Is Anfield]

I agree with most of your post mate, and I do think you're a quality poster, but I do take exception to the bolded part here.

The people who were saying Hardwick's time was up (and I was one of them), weren't going off simply "2 games this season". They were going off the poor performances since post-2013, both off field (lack of quality trading, bad trades), and also on-field performance (playing players out of position, not having a plan b, etc)

Granted, the frustration we were all feeling probably made some of our comments a bit over the top, won't deny that. However, to suggest that people were calling for his head simply because of the early part of this season is a bit rich as well.

I know personally, I've been a Dimma defender for basically his entire tenure, however there comes a tipping point where questions need to be asked. With that said, I've always had the opinion that if Dimma was able to turn things around, I'd support him again, because ultimately all I want is a successful RFC, and I'm happy to have Dimma at the helm if he's the one to make that happen.

But after 5 years, and starting to see the graph go downwards, I had some serious doubts that he would be the man to do it. And despite the solid performances of the last fortnight, Dimma still needs to show us that not only he, but also this playing group, has indeed turned the corner FOR GOOD!

That doesn't mean winning every single match from here on out and finishing 18-4 (although that would be nice >.>), but what it does mean is CONSISTENTLY turning up, and making the RFC a team that other teams dread playing, because they know they'll get bashed up and have constant pressure on them.

Finally, and just to reiterate, a coach who's been in the chair for over 5 years, and still hasn't won a final with the team, should only ever be 1 or 2 poor performances away from having serious questions asked of him, imho. So if we turn it shitful performances against Essendon and Fremantle, I would expect the pressure to ramp right back up, and so it bloody should.

Otherwise, we'll never be more than a mediocre footy club.

And a fair enough opinion to hold and one that at times, immediately after a really poor performance, I can share, the main reason that I rarely post straight after a loss .
As I have previously stated, I'm not a "supporter of Dimma" as such but more a supporter of the incumbent coach while I feel the club is on the right track, which I do, I also try to acknowledge that it's a long, and often torturous, track.
I also break Damien Hardwick's coaching tenure into three distinct periods, not one five year term and I'll try to explain and hope it makes some sort of sense, it does in my mind anyway.
Period one, 2010-2012 was a real re-building effort from the whole club, instilling the pride in playing for Richmond that had disappeared, regaining some respect from the football world and becoming competitive on field, no doubt that was successful, IMO of course.
Period two, 2013/14, the step to making finals or at least being a serious contender, we succeeded in two wildly different ways fair to say and the finals were disappointing to say the least.
Period three, 2015-?, the hardest step of all, becoming a power house of the comp and having sustained success, and yes, the jury is still well and truly out but DH hasn't failed yet, we have, again IMO, a talented and still young list which has gained a lot of experience and is capable of becoming very, very good, yes the losses are hard to swallow but the wins have had some real positives in the pressure we exerted to beat Collingwood and Port is exactly the type of pressure that we failed to exert in the recent past and has destroyed us in return, the million dollar question is can we maintain this long term, that is where DH's future will be determined and why I feel he should see out his contract, as long as we don't fall off the cliff!
Dimma, like all good coaches, is learning and adapting as he gains experience.
And the pressure will ALWAYS be on and I, and I imagine Dimma, accept that as part of the game.

 

[aislegi]

Wise words.

Twin imposters, indeed. I'm always impressed by the teams who say they just try to play their best footy, and don't even concern themselves about winning or losing, because that looks after itself. Ive heard Swans, Hawks and even Dockers say that in the past few years. Mostly the Swans, TBH.

Funny, you never hear anyone from an unsuccessful team say it.

That's the kind of bullcrap that a CEO would come out with ("I'm not in it for the money") - and happily take home $27 million

 

[aislegi]

if we play our best footy we have a great chance of winning

That's been the case for a long time. We played a number of excellent games (including a win, a draw, and a loss by less than a goal) against the top four sides in 2008. It's eliminating the seven or eight times a year we play like schoolboys that will see us get anywhere.

 

[This Is Anfield]

That's been the case for a long time. We played a number of excellent games (including a win, a draw, and a loss by less than a goal) against the top four sides in 2008. It's eliminating the seven or eight times a year we play like schoolboys that will see us get anywhere.

Obviously, and it's never been any different and not sure I ever said it was, the next step for the club is to be super consistent, that said we HAVE eliminated those time that we get absolutely smashed.

 

[This Is Anfield]

And PS" please quote the whole post so it retains it's proper context thanks, highlight the point you are making by all means.

 

[wegetpumped]

The criticism of Damien Hardwick was ABSOLUTELY warranted after that loss to the Bulldogs.

5 year coach with an established squad that supposed to be aiming for Top 4-6, losing to a very young team (albeit one that is better than I initially gave them credit for) with a 2nd game coach.

If we as supporters don't turn up the heat when Hardwick and the team is performing s**t, they won't have any reason to improve, because they'll be getting a free ride.

I want questions asked whenever we lose a game of footy, whether it's to Fremantle/Hawthorn, or Melbourne/Western Bulldogs.

We're never going to be the best when just accepting mediocrity, so when we play in a mediocre way, Dimma deserves every barb that comes his way. Just as Dimma and the players deserve every positive thing that is said when they perform to the standard required.

It's really that simple. Perform, and we'll be happy. Don't perform, and we're coming for your head, Dimma. Got it champ?

Now go beat Essendon.

All this people that think the criticism dh got wasn't warranted still wear nappies. A wise old man once said do this and that and if you do i will shut up i think his name is barassi. So unless they perform to our expectation or the expectation that they promise us any criticism they get is warranted.

 

[This Is Anfield]

All this people that think the criticism dh got wasn't warranted still wear nappies. A wise old man once said do this and that and if you do i will shut up i think his name is barassi. So unless they perform to our expectation or the expectation that they promise us any criticism they get is warranted.

Nobody, as far as I can tell, thinks criticism isn't warranted, the levels and tone of said criticism may be hotly debated though.

 

[wegetpumped]

Nobody, as far as I can tell, thinks criticism isn't warranted, the levels and tone of said criticism may be hotly debated though.

And vise versa lol

 

[aislegi]

Obviously, and it's never been any different and not sure I ever said it was, the next step for the club is to be super consistent, that said we HAVE eliminated those time that we get absolutely smashed.

Maybe we don't lose by 100 points anymore - but even this year (North Melbourne) and several times last year (eg. Hawthorn, Dreamtime) we have been really poor. There might be a number of reasons. For me, it comes back to the lack of good players recruited/developed in Hardwick's time. Too much, then, falls to too few and that's when we see the ugly Tigers.

 

[Boggle]

This Is Anfield: As Darth Vader would have said: "I find your acceptance of mediocrity disturbing."

More seriously, great post: the entire competition is structured to ensure equality and I think people need to get accustomed to this as "the new normal."

 

[ReaperX]

And a fair enough opinion to hold and one that at times, immediately after a really poor performance, I can share, the main reason that I rarely post straight after a loss .

This isn't my opinion after bad losses, this is my opinion whether we win, lose, or draw.

My opinion is that the coach should be performing to the level required to get our boys up and about for each and every game. When we're winning, or losing close ones with a fighting spirit like the game against the Cats this year, I can pretty much cop that, provided the effort is there and we're learning from it.

It's losses like we had against North, the Demons, and Bulldogs this year, that I will absolutely not tolerate, because they were all passionless performances without any real fighting spirit.

As I have previously stated, I'm not a "supporter of Dimma" as such but more a supporter of the incumbent coach while I feel the club is on the right track, which I do, I also try to acknowledge that it's a long, and often torturous, track.

Nothing wrong with being a supporter of Dimma... if he's doing his job and winning more matches than he's losing, and getting the team up for the fight.

I'm a Dimma supporter the last fortnight.

The only problem that occurs is when people blindly support Dimma (or any coach), even when it's clear that he's not doing the right thing, or performing at the level required.

Again, many of my opinions about anything RFC related boil down to performance, whether positive or negative, and they are opinions that I am happy to have sway and change with the times.

Being stoic and not being willing to change your opinion is dangerous, and that also applies to the "people who want Dimma gone no matter what" camp as well.

There are some people who want Dimma gone, regardless of results. I am NOT one of them.

I also break Damien Hardwick's coaching tenure into three distinct periods, not one five year term and I'll try to explain and hope it makes some sort of sense, it does in my mind anyway.
Period one, 2010-2012 was a real re-building effort from the whole club, instilling the pride in playing for Richmond that had disappeared, regaining some respect from the football world and becoming competitive on field, no doubt that was successful, IMO of course.
Period two, 2013/14, the step to making finals or at least being a serious contender, we succeeded in two wildly different ways fair to say and the finals were disappointing to say the least.
Period three, 2015-?, the hardest step of all, becoming a power house of the comp and having sustained success, and yes, the jury is still well and truly out but DH hasn't failed yet, we have, again IMO, a talented and still young list which has gained a lot of experience and is capable of becoming very, very good, yes the losses are hard to swallow but the wins have had some real positives in the pressure we exerted to beat Collingwood and Port is exactly the type of pressure that we failed to exert in the recent past and has destroyed us in return, the million dollar question is can we maintain this long term, that is where DH's future will be determined and why I feel he should see out his contract, as long as we don't fall off the cliff!
Dimma, like all good coaches, is learning and adapting as he gains experience.
And the pressure will ALWAYS be on and I, and I imagine Dimma, accept that as part of the game.

If Dimma can get this team performing at the same effort each and every week, that we've shown against Port and Collingwood, I absolutely agree that he should see out his contract.

If he gets them up 2 times out of 4, and the other 2 matches we play like we did against the Demons and Doggies, then serious questions need to be asked.

The ball's in Dimma's court aye. Just win matches of footy mate, and we're all good.

Show me consistent EFFORT every minute of every match, and I'll even cop missing the Top 8 this year honestly. But the reason I say this, is that I know if we DO actually show consistent effort every single minute of every match, we won't miss the Top 8, because the talent side of things is not an issue for our list.

 

[aislegi]

I still don't see the logic of the two-year contract extension - it was never as though our two finals thrashings were so impressive that someone was going to come along and poach him. In my opinion, we should have been able to send him on his way if this year wasn't a big improvement.

 

[Wild Westiger]

The criticism of Damien Hardwick was ABSOLUTELY warranted after that loss to the Bulldogs.

5 year coach with an established squad that supposed to be aiming for Top 4-6, losing to a very young team (albeit one that is better than I initially gave them credit for) with a 2nd game coach.

If we as supporters don't turn up the heat when Hardwick and the team is performing s**t, they won't have any reason to improve, because they'll be getting a free ride.

I want questions asked whenever we lose a game of footy, whether it's to Fremantle/Hawthorn, or Melbourne/Western Bulldogs.

We're never going to be the best when just accepting mediocrity, so when we play in a mediocre way, Dimma deserves every barb that comes his way. Just as Dimma and the players deserve every positive thing that is said when they perform to the standard required.

It's really that simple. Perform, and we'll be happy. Don't perform, and we're coming for your head, Dimma. Got it champ?

Now go beat Essendon.

Notta lotta love for coach Dimma!

 

[RunningBounce]

That's the kind of bullcrap that a CEO would come out with ("I'm not in it for the money") - and happily take home $27 million

No, it's what McVeigh and Hodge have both said, on their way to captaining a premiership. I'll bet we hear Pavolich say it before long. Never heard a CEO make the comment, so not sure where you're coming from, Tiger.

 

[aislegi]

No, it's what McVeigh and Hodge have both said, on their way to captaining a premiership. I'll bet we hear Pavolich say it before long. Never heard a CEO make the comment, so not sure where you're coming from, Tiger.

If you've ever watched a show like "The Business", the typical set-up is for Ticky Fullerton to be interviewing the head of a company and she'll say something like 'Your shares have risen 12% since the beginning of May' and the CEO (stock-standardly) will reply 'We just concentrate on running the company. We don't worry about the share price.' Of course, you know it's BS because he's got millions of options which are now in the money.