Thoughts on Dank's 34 SCN allegations and 34 Players' SCNs?

[Bobby Charlton]

It seems:

- Dank was issued a show cause notice around 11 March 2014 which included 34 allegations, all from his time at Essendon according to his brief.

- 34 players, present at Essendon in Dank's time, were issued around 13 June 2014 with a show cause notice which according to Sam Lane (who claims to have seen one) is for one allegation of use of Thymosin B4 "organised by Mr Stephen Dank and conducted in his office at the Essendon Football Club premises"* sometime between Jan and Sep 2012..

It looks like Dank has received 34 allegations from his time at Essendon and 34 players with Essendon at the time each have one allegation of using TB4, conducted by Dank.

So, is there a one for one association between the 34 allegations against Dank and the 34 allegations against Essendon players at the time? Are ASADA basing their SCNs on 34 events?

It's interesting to speculate on what next if EFC and Hird lose their case at the Federal court next month. Presumably, the clock for submissions will be restarted as soon the Justice rules, and at the end of the 10 day or so submission period the matter will then be with the ADRVP who are required by the NAD Scheme to decide "as soon as practical" whether to make entries in the Register of Findings.

Does it seem credible that the ADRVP will act on the players' notifications without acting on Dank's notification. If Dank's and the players' notifications are really linked (it is hard to believe otherwise) would it be possible for the ADRVP to make a RoF entry for one but not for the other?

If the players' and Dank's SCNs are linked, I don't see how the ADRVP could justify making RoF entries for the players but not for Dank. But Dank's SCN was issued over 4 months ago and as far as we know Dank has not been entered in the RoF and he has not been issued with an infraction notice by the AFL. It seems unlikely that the ADRVP will enter the players in the RoF until they decide on Dank and who knows when that will be? The delay cannot be that they are waiting for a submission from Dank - he is not cooperating. Perhaps action on Dank is on hold because of possible prejudice associated with possible criminal action against Dank. If that is true the players situation will also likely be in limbo until Dank's possible criminal affairs are resolved - in about 5-7 years.

*http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-invokes-lance-armstrong-dope-formula-20140614-3a4k2.html

 

[Argy]

Wishful thinking on your part methinks.

Doesn't deserve a thread of it's own.

 

[Bobby Charlton]

Wishful thinking on your part methinks.

Doesn't deserve a thread of it's own.

How about addressing the issue? The issue will arise very soon.
Do you think that the ADRVP (and subsequently the AFL Tribunal) would make a decision on the alleged 34 player violations before ruling on Dank's alleged violations? Be very interesting if the players get suspensions but Dank doesn't (possibly due to criminal prejudice considerations).

 

[Mutt]

How about addressing the issue? The issue will arise very soon.
Do you think that the ADRVP (and subsequently the AFL Tribunal) would make a decision on the alleged 34 player violations before ruling on Dank's alleged violations? Be very interesting if the players get suspensions but Dank doesn't (possibly due to criminal prejudice considerations).

How can you or anyone outside of ASADA possibly answer that question with any confidence?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Wishful thinking on your part methinks.

Doesn't deserve a thread of it's own.

"Deserve a thread"

 

[TerryWallet]

All you need to know Bobby is that Ben McDevitt, Aurora Andrushka, Richard Young, Malcolm Holmes and Judge Gary Downes have ticked off on SCN's in the full knowledge of litigious recipients.

The full extent of the PED program will be debated for years. It was highly likely extensive.

Water tight cases against litigious recipients seem to not be able to be made for numerous drugs.

But on TB-4, the above 5 experts have gold stamped SCN's and delivered them, and will fight for them.

Your theories, my theories, while enjoyable and maddening are now irrelevant.

The die is cast, the process is in motion.

34 players ARE going to get a penalty. Once the Aug court case is dealt with, the players will be dealt with pretty quickly.

Who gives a F**k about Dank. He is toast in so many areas. Once the players are done with, Dank will be attacked by an ocean of piranhas lol

 

[The 747]

Hmmmm this must be the new line from EFC PR central.....

 

[hoianbulldog]

How about addressing the issue? The issue will arise very soon..

So you have finally given up on EFC or Hird being successful in the high court...thank god for that.

As for your question, what's stopping them from processing the players first? If that's how asada want to play it for whatever reason then that's how it will happen.

As you appear to have given up on the court action being successful, this thread seems to be your next pr manoeuvre. Throw mud at the ADRVP.

 

[Bobby Charlton]

34 players ARE going to get a penalty. Once the Aug court case is dealt with, the players will be dealt with pretty quickly.

Who gives a F**k about Dank. He is toast in so many areas. Once the players are done with, Dank will be attacked by an ocean of piranhas lol

Thanks. You reckon the players will be done before Dank. Be entertaining if that happens. Co-operating duped players suspended before any action against the alleged non-cooperating needleman. That might make a few more people unhappy with bumbling bureaucrats.

But you might be wrong - again.

 

[Bobby Charlton]

So you have finally given up on EFC or Hird being successful in the high court...thank god for that.

As for your question, what's stopping them from processing the players first? If that's how asada want to play it for whatever reason then that's how it will happen.

As you appear to have given up on the court action being successful, this thread seems to be your next pr manoeuvre. Throw mud at the ADRVP.

I have and have never had any hopes one way or the other re the Federal Court (not the high court you imagine) action. This stuff is simply interesting. But sending down the players before establishing and punishing Dank's role and might attract some fair criticism even if not from you.

 

[hoianbulldog]

I have and have never had any hopes one way or the other re the Federal Court (not the high court you imagine) action. This stuff is simply interesting. But sending down the players before establishing and punishing Dank's role and might attract some fair criticism even if not from you.

If they go the players first then I'd imagine that there would be a reason for it which isn't know to us at this stage. Could be tactical, who knows.
All who have received SCN's at this stage were involved in what was going on. I don't care if they process them alphabetically as long as they get processed and fried if they have breached the wada code.

 

[TerryWallet]

Thanks. You reckon the players will be done before Dank. Be entertaining if that happens. Co-operating duped players suspended before any action against the alleged non-cooperating needleman. That might make a few more people unhappy with bumbling bureaucrats.

But you might be wrong - again.

lol

 

[IanW]

Thanks. You reckon the players will be done before Dank. Be entertaining if that happens. Co-operating duped players suspended before any action against the alleged non-cooperating needleman. That might make a few more people unhappy with bumbling bureaucrats.

But you might be wrong - again.

On the contrary - it is because ASADA want to nail Dank and Hird that the players are being given the opportunity to cooperate first.

If the players shop Dank and Hird, then they get their penalties reduced and Dank and Hird get nailed to a proverbial wall.

If the players dont, then they get their base two years each, and ASADA then proceed to nail Dank and Hird to the proverbial wall anyway.

 

[bomberjez]

Your theories, my theories, while enjoyable and maddening are now irrelevant.

The die is cast, the process is in motion.

34 players ARE going to get a penalty. Once the Aug court case is dealt with, the players will be dealt with pretty quickly.

Process throughout the last 2 years has had to suck nads. You know it.

You speak with certainty but it was your bolded statement that contains the only fact.

 

[TerryWallet]

Process throughout the last 2 years has had to suck nads. You know it.

You speak with certainty but it was your bolded statement that contains the only fact.

It matters nought what you, me, or disseminators like Bobby think anymore. HTB was fun and buzzing through the discovery stage though.

It only matters now what conclusions Ben McDevitt, Richard Young, Malcolm Holmes and Judge Gary Downes came to.

Get your head around it.

EFC are extremely lucky that TB-4 may be the only thing they get nailed with.

Ben McDevitt: "I will not sacrifice certainty for any other consideration".

 

[lones37]

On the contrary - it is because ASADA want to nail Dank and Hird that the players are being given the opportunity to cooperate first.

If the players shop Dank and Hird, then they get their penalties reduced and Dank and Hird get nailed to a proverbial wall.

If the players dont, then they get their base two years each, and ASADA then proceed to nail Dank and Hird to the proverbial wall anyway.

And believe me, ASADA is going to nail Hird to that wall with an abundance of nails.

And not just about this case either.

 

[Bobby Charlton]

On the contrary - it is because ASADA want to nail Dank and Hird that the players are being given the opportunity to cooperate first.

If the players shop Dank and Hird, then they get their penalties reduced and Dank and Hird get nailed to a proverbial wall.

If the players dont, then they get their base two years each, and ASADA then proceed to nail Dank and Hird to the proverbial wall anyway.

Yes, that's ok but it assumes they have all the evidence they need and are delaying acting on that evidence (in conflict with the NAD Scheme) purely to be nice to the players. I doubt McDevitt is that altruistic. But there are other theories.

Dank's SCN was issued over 4 months ago. Maybe ASADA submitted their stuff on Dank to the ADRVP at the end of the submission period (as required by the NAD scheme), the ADRVP considered it, and told ASADA there was insufficient evidence and suggested evidence was needed from the alleged receivers of the substances. So ASADA sent out SCNs to the players hoping to get cooperation from the players with the SCN baseball bats. Makes sense with the relative timing of Dank's and the players SCNs and also explains the mysterious delay in dealing with Dank's case by the ADRVP (who are required by the NAD Scheme to decide on RoF entry at the end of the submission period).

 

[IanW]

Yes, that's ok but it assumes they have all the evidence they need and are delaying acting on that evidence (in conflict with the NAD Scheme) purely to be nice to the players. I doubt McDevitt is that altruistic. But there are other theories.

Dank's SCN was issued over 4 months ago. Maybe ASADA submitted their stuff on Dank to the ADRVP at the end of the submission period (as required by the NAD scheme), the ADRVP considered it, and told ASADA there was insufficient evidence and suggested evidence was needed from the alleged receivers of the substances. So ASADA sent out SCNs to the players hoping to get cooperation from the players with the SCN baseball bats. Makes sense with the relative timing of Dank's and the players SCNs and also explains the mysterious delay in dealing with Dank's case by the ADRVP (who are required by the NAD Scheme to decide on RoF entry at the end of the submission period).

The guy they really want is Hird, because you can't do team-based doping without the coach being involved, and James Albert Hird copping a two-to-four year suspension will go a long way to convincing clubs to not try and dope their way into the Champions League.

 

[bomberjez]

It matters nought what you, me, or disseminators like Bobby think anymore. HTB was fun and buzzing through the discovery stage though.

It only matters now what conclusions Ben McDevitt, Richard Young, Malcolm Holmes and Judge Gary Downes came to.

Get your head around it.

EFC are extremely lucky that TB-4 may be the only thing they get nailed with.

Ben McDevitt: "I will not sacrifice certainty for any other consideration".

You're speaking but saying so little other then stating the obvious.

 

[jenny61_99]

Of course you don't know they haven't continued with dank. Only time they'll tell you is when he is sanctioned unless he leaks otherwise.

 

[PrideOf]

Of course you don't know they haven't continued with dank. Only time they'll tell you is when he is sanctioned unless he leaks otherwise.

Time will tell. Or Newman. Or Grandpa Cornes.

 

[Tiger2709]

It seems:

- Dank was issued a show cause notice around 11 March 2014 which included 34 allegations, all from his time at Essendon according to his brief.

- 34 players, present at Essendon in Dank's time, were issued around 13 June 2014 with a show cause notice which according to Sam Lane (who claims to have seen one) is for one allegation of use of Thymosin B4 "organised by Mr Stephen Dank and conducted in his office at the Essendon Football Club premises"* sometime between Jan and Sep 2012..

It looks like Dank has received 34 allegations from his time at Essendon and 34 players with Essendon at the time each have one allegation of using TB4, conducted by Dank.

So, is there a one for one association between the 34 allegations against Dank and the 34 allegations against Essendon players at the time? Are ASADA basing their SCNs on 34 events?

It's interesting to speculate on what next if EFC and Hird lose their case at the Federal court next month. Presumably, the clock for submissions will be restarted as soon the Justice rules, and at the end of the 10 day or so submission period the matter will then be with the ADRVP who are required by the NAD Scheme to decide "as soon as practical" whether to make entries in the Register of Findings.

Does it seem credible that the ADRVP will act on the players' notifications without acting on Dank's notification. If Dank's and the players' notifications are really linked (it is hard to believe otherwise) would it be possible for the ADRVP to make a RoF entry for one but not for the other?

If the players' and Dank's SCNs are linked, I don't see how the ADRVP could justify making RoF entries for the players but not for Dank. But Dank's SCN was issued over 4 months ago and as far as we know Dank has not been entered in the RoF and he has not been issued with an infraction notice by the AFL. It seems unlikely that the ADRVP will enter the players in the RoF until they decide on Dank and who knows when that will be? The delay cannot be that they are waiting for a submission from Dank - he is not cooperating. Perhaps action on Dank is on hold because of possible prejudice associated with possible criminal action against Dank. If that is true the players situation will also likely be in limbo until Dank's possible criminal affairs are resolved - in about 5-7 years.

*http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-invokes-lance-armstrong-dope-formula-20140614-3a4k2.html

Is Dank currently involved in any ASADA/WADA controlled sports, if not I cant see a great deal they can do to him in regards banning him from sports?

 

[Thrawn]

EFC are extremely lucky that TB-4 may be the only thing they get nailed with.

Don't think that will happen. There will probably be more SC notices to come. It's still an "open" investigation. But it might be fruitless to chase them up for any more if they are banished from the game and/or suspended for a lengthy period of time.

 

[The Scales]

All you need to know Bobby is that Ben McDevitt, Aurora Andrushka, Richard Young, Malcolm Holmes and Judge Gary Downes have ticked off on SCN's in the full knowledge of litigious recipients.
But on TB-4, the above 5 experts have gold stamped SCN's and delivered them, and will fight for them.
34 players ARE going to get a penalty. Once the Aug court case is dealt with, the players will be dealt with pretty quickly.

Might be found to be a smiley stamp, or some such shitty booby prize, T.W.

How much posting credibility are you prepared to sacrifice at the altar of the AFL/ASADA investigation?

Just for your thinking time music, take this into account. 138 charges of governance issues, provided by ASADA (a government legislated doping authority) were reduced to three EFC employees charged with BTGID, and one EFC employee not punished - due to fear of perjury of the AFL House witnesses, potentially called to testify.

Not one doping charge has originated from the targetted testing of the EFC playing group since 2012. Despite knowing what they were looking for, not a solitary AAF.

ASADA = Governance penalties? AFL = justification for SCN's? TerryWallet = ASADA wannabee
Deputy. We should accept these givens, as being very wrong.

 

[SBYM]

It's interesting to speculate on what next if EFC and Hird lose their case at the Federal court next month.

I respectfully disagree with this sentence.

Nothing is interesting about this debacle anymore...