Tony Abbott just doesn't ******* get it

[Slax]

Tony Abbott's inability to understand the whole arguement around how his proposed changes to Newstart allowance will create an underclass is amazing.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/u...-dream-job-pm-tony-abbott-20140524-zrn26.html

No-one has a problem with saying to someone you've knock back a job so you miss out on the dole. The problem is with the fact that people can't get a job to knock back. What do you do if you live in a regional area with no jobs? Idiots in the coalition say move to an area where there are jobs, but how can you do that if you have no money? Live on the street or is Tony Abbott and his Liberal mates will to offer them a room to stay in at their houses until they get a job?

What do you do with someone who lives in a regional area and doesn't have a drivers licence? (I'm referring to those who can't get one for medical reasons) It's is incredibly difficult to find job as public transport is poor at best. So then they sit at home unable to do anything because they don't have money and if they haven't held a job for 6 months when they get on Newstart no-one wants to employ them because they have no current references.

Tony Abbott is the single biggest ****whit of a PM this country has ever had. I hope that his budget ends up being used as toilet paper and his party knife him. Having a tosser like him in power will destroy the social fabric of this country and create a situation where those most in need are left completely destitute with no hope of improve their life.

 

[greennick]

They should have watered it down. While I understand what they're trying to do, they're going about it in a really shitty way. If they're trying to encourage people to take any job or not just sit on the dole, they should have just made it so work for the dole is compulsory from your first dole cheque. If I was them, I would switch to that quickly and then at least they have a chance at getting it through. They can argue it will still have the desired impact on bludgers, while supporting those who genuinely can't find a job.

His party won't knife him though. I doubt he will stand down either.

It was a piss poor decision made by National Labor (twice), Victorian Liberals and NT Liberals to knife their elected leaders.

 

[Slax]

They should have watered it down. While I understand what they're trying to do, they're going about it in a really shitty way. If they're trying to encourage people to take any job or not just sit on the dole, they should have just made it so work for the dole is compulsory from your first dole cheque. If I was them, I would switch to that quickly and then at least they have a chance at getting it through. They can argue it will still have the desired impact on bludgers, while supporting those who genuinely can't find a job.

I had no problem with the theory behind it, which was to get people on the dole to stop being so selective about the work they do and get them to work. The problem is that it is a one size fits all policy, which completely ignores all the hinderences that some people suffer in trying to get a job, like geographical location, health issues and the like.

His party won't knife him though. I doubt he will stand down either.

It was a piss poor decision made by National Labor (twice), Victorian Liberals and NT Liberals to knife their elected leaders.

If the Victorian Liberals didn't knife Baillieu the opinion polls would be 60-40 not 53-47 against the Libs in Victoria, the bloke was incompetent and hated here, even Bolt was writing negative articles about him in the lead up to the challenge.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

They should have watered it down. While I understand what they're trying to do, they're going about it in a really shitty way. If they're trying to encourage people to take any job or not just sit on the dole, they should have just made it so work for the dole is compulsory from your first dole cheque. If I was them, I would switch to that quickly and then at least they have a chance at getting it through. They can argue it will still have the desired impact on bludgers, while supporting those who genuinely can't find a job.

His party won't knife him though. I doubt he will stand down either.

It was a piss poor decision made by National Labor (twice), Victorian Liberals and NT Liberals to knife their elected leaders.

I wouldn't. There will be graduates with genuinely valuable skills who are yet to enter the workforce upon graduation, sometimes it takes weeks or even a couple of months to find relevant work, even if relocating.

Forcing someone into a work for the dole program which may effect their ability to find employment would be a poor outcome. Another problem is you don't want work for the dole numbers to become to high, otherwise you have an unskilled labor pool being paid below minimum wage, taking work away from those already in the workforce.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

But we need to give women that are already earning $100,000 a year a 6 month paid holiday when they have a kid.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I'm with DivideandMultiply on this one. If there was evidence that Work for the dole lead to improved outcomes for it's participants, then I'd be all for it. However there is evidence to the contrary

The main finding from our study was that there appeared to be quite large adverse effects of participation in WfD.
Participants were less likely to move off payments. Six months after commencing in the Work for the Dole program, 71.4% of participants were still in receipt of unemployment payments, compared to only 59.1% of non-participants.
After six months this gap began to slowly reverse so that by 12 months the difference in the percentages who had exited from unemployment payments had narrowed from 12.3% to 10.3%.
But this meant that Work for the Dole participants were still substantially more likely to remain unemployed. A consequence of Work for the Dole participants moving off payments more slowly was that they spent a longer average amount of time in receipt of payments. By 12 months after commencing participation they had been in receipt of payments on average for 2.2 fortnights longer than those who did not participate in Work for the Dole.

http://theconversation.com/work-for-the-dole-doesnt-work-so-why-is-it-coalition-policy-784

Another policy that is idealogically driven, not evidence based

 

[greennick]

I wouldn't. There will be graduates with genuinely valuable skills who are yet to enter the workforce upon graduation, sometimes it takes weeks or even a couple of months to find relevant work, even if relocating.

Forcing someone into a work for the dole program which may effect their ability to find employment would be a poor outcome. Another problem is you don't want work for the dole numbers to become to high, otherwise you have an unskilled labor pool being paid below minimum wage, taking work away from those already in the workforce.

They obviously have a different mindset and my solution I proposed was trying to work within that. An understandable mindset from my own personal experience as someone who got on the dole just for the hell of it after uni. I know of others that had jobs lined up, but signed up for the dole while living at home to just have beer money till they started work. Think they would do that if there was a work for the dole?

Work for the dole is just 2 days a week still, right? My knowledge on it is about 10 years old...

 

[greennick]

But we need to give women that are already earning $100,000 a year a 6 month paid holiday when they have a kid.

An alternative way of looking at the PPL scheme is it is giving small business a level playing field with big business and government, so they can attract and retain female workers. Which one creates more wealth, giving money to young people to do nothing or encouraging a stronger small business sector and higher female workforce participation??

Funnily enough, these types of schemes are pushed by the left in almost every other country.

 

[greennick]

I had no problem with the theory behind it, which was to get people on the dole to stop being so selective about the work they do and get them to work. The problem is that it is a one size fits all policy, which completely ignores all the hinderences that some people suffer in trying to get a job, like geographical location, health issues and the like.

Mate, I agree. It isn't a good policy. I spent time on the dole (by choice though) and it was a grand time. Though I was a lot happier with it when I found out it only applied to those transitioning from study, not to those already in work.

If the Victorian Liberals didn't knife Baillieu the opinion polls would be 60-40 not 53-47 against the Libs in Victoria, the bloke was incompetent and hated here, even Bolt was writing negative articles about him in the lead up to the challenge.

Then convince him to step down for the good of the party. I just don't like the whole coup d'etat feeling of a party voting out their leader. As many don't. Further, if the fed Liberals do that know, it would be even more hypocritical than anything else they've done.

 

[Aed0s]

Tony Abbott's inability to understand the whole arguement around how his proposed changes to Newstart allowance will create an underclass is amazing.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/u...-dream-job-pm-tony-abbott-20140524-zrn26.html

No-one has a problem with saying to someone you've knock back a job so you miss out on the dole. The problem is with the fact that people can't get a job to knock back. What do you do if you live in a regional area with no jobs? Idiots in the coalition say move to an area where there are jobs, but how can you do that if you have no money? Live on the street or is Tony Abbott and his Liberal mates will to offer them a room to stay in at their houses until they get a job?

What do you do with someone who lives in a regional area and doesn't have a drivers licence? (I'm referring to those who can't get one for medical reasons) It's is incredibly difficult to find job as public transport is poor at best. So then they sit at home unable to do anything because they don't have money and if they haven't held a job for 6 months when they get on Newstart no-one wants to employ them because they have no current references.

Tony Abbott is the single biggest ****whit of a PM this country has ever had. I hope that his budget ends up being used as toilet paper and his party knife him. Having a tosser like him in power will destroy the social fabric of this country and create a situation where those most in need are left completely destitute with no hope of improve their life.

I agree. I must admit I don't know much about the budget but this idea that once leaving study or being fired from work and not being allowed to receive unemployment benefits for the first 6 months would quite literally send thousands of families onto the streets within a very short period of time.

Are they allowed to implement these policies though? If Labor were to win the next election would they be able to reverse such decisions?

 

[greennick]

I agree. I must admit I don't know much about the budget but this idea that once leaving study or being fired from work and not being allowed to receive unemployment benefits for the first 6 months would quite literally send thousands of families onto the streets within a very short period of time.

Are they allowed to implement these policies though? If Labor were to win the next election would they be able to reverse such decisions?

It doesn't apply to people who are in employment. I thought it did when it first came out, but further reading indicated this was not the case.

 

[Docker Clint]

Having a tosser like him in power will destroy the social fabric of this country and create a situation where those most in need are left completely destitute with no hope of improve their life.

I assume it's what the people of Australia wanted, they were warned before the election and still voted his government into power.

 

[Power Raid]

What is the 12 month rule? does this scheme only apply to people on the dole for 12 months?

I see this come up in many articles but they don't provide clear context.

 

[RonSon]

What do you do with someone who lives in a regional area and doesn't have a drivers licence? (I'm referring to those who can't get one for medical reasons).

Sadly I think the answer will be "leave your family and local support and move to where the hospital care/ jobs are". Never mind this has massive downsides to a persons standard of living/ mental health.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

this entire process is arse backwards.

Instead of ******* over young people and having a 6 month waiting list for the dole, it should be the actual long term dole bludgers that are targeted.
anyone who's been on the dole knows it takes a certain kind of person to live of a diet of RC cola and chip's.

instead things should be the other way around forget age once you've been on the dole for 6 months you should be looked at intensively once your on the dole for a year you should be sat down and told mate if you can't find a job we will fund tafe course for you to learn skill's.

or better yet push long term unemployed into government job's, FFS there's course's you need to do to become a customer service rep for Sydney trains now.

 

[Slax]

Sadly I think the answer will be "leave your family and local support and move to where the hospital care/ jobs are". Never mind this has massive downsides to a persons standard of living/ mental health.

That's fine if you have a qualification in that field or some way of getting experience, but if you don't have either you won't get a look in. In a slow job market they can be choosy about who they pick and those who have to travel aren't going to looked on as long term employees.

 

[sherb]

Bloody rabble rousing welfare groups. What would they know?

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...es-will-spark-catastrophe-20140605-39lzi.html

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

.....not to mention the spike in crime.

What this Govt is proposing is beyond belief....I used to dislike Howard but he looks like a genius compared to this mess we have at the moment.

 

[RonSon]

That's fine if you have a qualification in that field or some way of getting experience, but if you don't have either you won't get a look in. In a slow job market they can be choosy about who they pick and those who have to travel aren't going to looked on as long term employees.

Yep, very true, but unfortunately the rhetoric coming out of the current government seems to be the only reason people can't find work is because they are lazy or too picky about what work they will do. I'm not sure how they expect people to survive with no job and no safety net to pay for things like cleaning clothes for job interviews, but that seems to be the plan. It's crazy.

 

[Todman]

Sadly I think the answer will be "leave your family and local support and move to where the hospital care/ jobs are". Never mind this has massive downsides to a persons standard of living/ mental health.

Not having a drivers licence in a rural area is no reason not to improve yourself. How long would you allow an able body person to draw the dole in a dying town? (towns without work die)

 

[Todman]

Yep, very true, but unfortunately the rhetoric coming out of the current government seems to be the only reason people can't find work is because they are lazy or too picky about what work they will do. I'm not sure how they expect people to survive with no job and no safety net to pay for things like cleaning clothes for job interviews, but that seems to be the plan. It's crazy.

Nothing motivates a person more than an empty belly.

 

[Todman]

.....not to mention the spike in crime.

What this Govt is proposing is beyond belief....I used to dislike Howard but he looks like a genius compared to this mess we have at the moment.

The dole bludger should apply to be a prison guard. You make it out as a going industry.

 

[Todman]

That's fine if you have a qualification in that field or some way of getting experience, but if you don't have either you won't get a look in. In a slow job market they can be choosy about who they pick and those who have to travel aren't going to looked on as long term employees.

Lets do an Arts degree, funny how that piece of paper is useless in the real world.

 

[madmug]

this entire process is arse backwards.


FFS there's course's you need to do to become a customer service rep for Sydney trains now.

What? an English language course

 

[Todman]

Tony Abbott's inability to understand the whole arguement around how his proposed changes to Newstart allowance will create an underclass is amazing.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/u...-dream-job-pm-tony-abbott-20140524-zrn26.html


What do you do with someone who lives in a regional area and doesn't have a drivers licence? (I'm referring to those who can't get one for medical reasons) It's is incredibly difficult to find job as public transport is poor at best. So then they sit at home unable to do anything because they don't have money and if they haven't held a job for 6 months when they get on Newstart no-one wants to employ them because they have no current references.

These people who sit at home, ,is it their parents home or are they already out of home? If you move out without resources then you desire to starve.