Tony Abbott Statesman or complete numpty?

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noddy said:
I trust Abbott has been given the all clear from Putin to send in armed personnel to the crash site or there could be hell to play.
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As posted in another thread...

Prime Minister Tony Abbott's plan to deploy armed police to the MH17 crash site risks increasing tension in the Ukrainian territory held by Russian-backed rebels, according to international political analysts.
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"They must be nuts," Joerg Forbrig, a senior program officer for central and eastern Europe at the Berlin bureau of the German Marshall Fund of the US think tank, said. "It's a very dangerous proposal and will be seen as a provocation by the separatists and the Russians."
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Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/austral...te-analysts-20140726-zx3mo.html#ixzz38Ww4I04j

Rambo Abbott may have jumped the gun...again.
 
Contra Mundum said:
Mr Abbott said Australia's pursuit of the temporary seat was a waste of money and had distorted the nation's foreign policy priorities...

“And the problem with this whole Security Council bid is that it has cost money; worse it has distorted our priorities over so many years as so much time and effort goes into this, and not into managing the relationships which are absolutely vital to our future.”
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I had to laugh at The Daily Telegraph's complete side-step of this hypocrisy in their side-by-side shirtless comparison of Abbott to Putin (circled in red, apparently Abbott was elected to the Security Council even as he was telling everyone as Opposition Leader that it was a waste of time and money):
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noddy said:
I trust Abbott has been given the all clear from Putin to send in armed personnel to the crash site or there could be hell to play.
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Exactly. Corralling Putin is the name of the game.
Not hard to see the tactics Abbott and Bishop are employing. Worked so far in getting Russia to vote for the security council resolution. But a security force employed so close to Russian border even on a humanitarian mission would become an issue of loss of face for Vlad, I imagine.
On the other hand Vlad under pressure on domestic front - his daughter lives in Holland with her Dutch boyfriend/husband - and has had to flee her home because of growing anger from the locals.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/wor...leave-home-in-netherlands-20140726-zx3op.html
 
Abbott and bishop "coralling" Putin. OMG:rolleyes: Is this a rodeo? What's next? They bulldog him, tie him up and run him outta town?

Someone with skillz at shooping should do this.
 
Putin is off the hook if Dutch are able to announce they have all the bodies/remains, or at very least the bodies/remains of all 80 of the children.

If the Dutch announce there are a signficant no of children and other remains unaccounted for, the pressure ratchets on him to agree to multi force and guarantee its security.
 
GuruJane said:
Putin is off the hook if Dutch are able to announce they have all the bodies/remains, or at very least the bodies/remains of all 80 of the children.

If the Dutch announce there are a signficant no of children and other remains unaccounted for, the pressure ratchets on him to agree to multi force and guarantee its security.
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Putin isn't on the hook for anything. Last time I checked the Russian Armed Forces didn't shoot down MH17. Nor is he in control of the Pro Russian Rebels.
 
Bradesmaen said:
Putin is sitting back in Moscow just laughing at Tony Abbotts childish attempts to bully him. He's one of the most powerful men in the world being told what to do by a cretin from a smaller country. He won't even listen.
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Most of the 'tough talk' from our PM is really just for local consumption. Putin wouldn't take much notice of it. He'd just see the little Aussie Yapper as the US deputy sheriff for Oceania.
The real action is in Europe. I dont really think Putin would want to cop too much 'flack' from the incident. He will muddy the waters as much as he needs to avoid as much of the pointing fingers of blame as possible. He probably wants to look the statesman himself by 'negotiating' better access to the crash site.
Putin is no more or less cynical about such matters than the US. Cite My Lai massacre, Abu Ghraib torture etc etc etc etc.
I guess if Tone has made anyone feel better about this tragedy then thats fair enough. Maybe we should just hold off the 'Sainthood' over his work just yet.
 
madmug said:
Most of the 'tough talk' from our PM is really just for local consumption. Putin wouldn't take much notice of it. He'd just see the little Aussie Yapper as the US deputy sheriff for Oceania.
The real action is in Europe. I dont really think Putin would want to cop too much 'flack' from the incident. He will muddy the waters as much as he needs to avoid as much of the pointing fingers of blame as possible. He probably wants to look the statesman himself by 'negotiating' better access to the crash site.
Putin is no more or less cynical about such matters than the US. Cite My Lai massacre, Abu Ghraib torture etc etc etc etc.
I guess if Tone has made anyone feel better about this tragedy then thats fair enough. Maybe we should just hold off the 'Sainthood' over his work just yet.
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I agree with most of this. Especially that Putin would not want to cop too much flack in Europe. That's why, imo, the turning point relies on the number of bodies and remains in Dutch custody, especially those of the 80 children. If there is a number still missing, all hell will break loose in Europe public opinion and probably also flak domestically in Russia if Putin doesn't act to ensure a proper search of the site.

Abbott and Bishop used the moral aspect of the victims and families to extremely good effect in getting the SC resolution, and this is what Abbott is no doubt continuing to use on Putin - its really the only leverage he has. But if the Dutch announces they've got all the remains, then that falls away imo.
 
Bradesmaen said:
Putin isn't on the hook for anything. Last time I checked the Russian Armed Forces didn't shoot down MH17. Nor is he in control of the Pro Russian Rebels.
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Next you'll try telling us the USSR and the USA weren't fighting in Vietnam or Korea, just arming the Vietnamese and Korean troups with weaponry, so they're non-complicant.
 
GuruJane said:
Exactly. Corralling Putin is the name of the game.
Not hard to see the tactics Abbott and Bishop are employing. Worked so far in getting Russia to vote for the security council resolution. But a security force employed so close to Russian border even on a humanitarian mission would become an issue of loss of face for Vlad, I imagine.
On the other hand Vlad under pressure on domestic front - his daughter lives in Holland with her Dutch boyfriend/husband - and has had to flee her home because of growing anger from the locals.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/wor...leave-home-in-netherlands-20140726-zx3op.html
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He's on something like 85% approval rating-so not too much pressure?
Think its Tone who is struggling on the domestic front.(only 35% trust him and all that-lower than your old mate Gillard-imagine that) :)
 
romeoh said:
He's on something like 85% approval rating-so not too much pressure?
Think its Tone who is struggling on the domestic front.(only 35% trust him and all that-lower than your old mate Gillard-imagine that) :)
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I was referring to his personal domestic front in this post.
 

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Gough said:
If we're talking about personal domestic front, rumours have it that ol' Tone is in a bit of strife there himself.
#wheresMargie
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Tone wouldn't know. He wouldn't even know how to 'phone home'!
 
Good piece by Peter Brent on the handling of the MH17 crash.
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/mumble/index.php/theaustralian/comments/oz_media/
The story of us
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Mumble Blog | 23 July 2014 | 122 Comments

THE tragedy of the 298 murdered over Eastern Ukraine has brought out the worst in Australian media.

Our appearance in international events tends to do this, bring out the very Australian need to make the whole thing about us.

The inevitable key theme is punching above our weight: see our leaders speaking to the great and good on equal footing, forming “close” relationships” with famous people. Check out the body language, see how comfortable they are with each other.

Every mention of us by others is recorded and replayed.

It was from this particular well that Tony Abbott drew several years ago when he declared that “America, Britain and Australia” were “the three most important countries in the world”. A preposterous formulation, but barely commented on in commentatorland.

And similarly, no one outside this country would understand our central role in the Iraq debacle: as one Aussie commentator noted (in this paper) a decade ago: the “[m]ore intellectually acute critics of [George] Bush and [John] Howard know they need to look deeper into the characters of the two men to find an explanation for the war and the foreign policy thinking that created it.”

But in a case like this, the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines MH-17, this Aussie chippiness becomes more noxious.

From many of the words produced by journalists and, encouraged by them, politicians, you would think only Australians were on board on that airliner.

One journalist on the weekend rued that “sadly, because of tragedies Australians have been involved in the past, we have quite a lot of expertise in this kind of forensic recovery and victim identification.”

The reality is the opposite, and Australians are among the safest people on Earth when it comes to atrocities like this; perhaps that’s part of the reason we are the way we are.

The citizenship numbers of the 298 people on board the Malaysia Airlines flight are: Netherlands 193, Malaysia 43, Australia 27, Indonesia 12, United Kingdom 10, Germany and Belgium four, Philippines three, and Canada and New Zealand one each.

The first two countries are not on the Security Council, but we currently are, and that’s why Australia drafted resolution 2166. It’s not because we’re pluckier than anyone else—sorry.

Abbott has held several news conferences on the catastrophe. On Tuesday he finally got around to mentioning a couple of other countries whose people lost their lives. The Netherlands received many acknowledgements (though not the name of its prime minister), mostly because that’s where the victims’ bodies are being taken, but also because they are, apparently, supporting us in this, our time of need.

[Update: it has been noted in comments that he listed the other countries on Friday. The above is sloppy phrasing on my part, apologies.]

Malaysia’s prime minister received a guernsey by name, this being a friendship forged in tragedy. (Expect the embedding of this theme in future media reports any time the two have dealings.)

Our commentators have contrasted our prime minister’s muscular response with those of Barack Obama (whose nation lost no citizens) and David Cameron. Because these are the three most important nations after all.

It seems true that Abbott has been more assertive than either the Dutch or Malaysian leaders (although Indonesia’s SBY may have been first out of the blocks in calling it a “war crime”.)

Abbott’s intimation that Aussie troops should guard the crash site in the rebel-held territory came as a surprise. And a cynic might reckon the decision to turn this into a military operation called “Operation Bring Them Home” is, well, a slice of cynical politics.

There are undoubtedly folks in the government brains trust considering the long-term effects, hoping this is Tony’s opportunity to transform himself in the voters’ eyes. Like Howard and Port Arthur in 1996. Or his Tampa/September 11/Bali bombings moment.

The only opinion polls taken since then (the news broke on Friday; a Nielsen was taken Thursday to Saturday and an Essential with I think a similar time-frame) have not discernibly registered an improvement in government stocks. We will see.

In early 2011 I was crass enough to contemplate premier Anna Bligh’s newfound popularity after the Queensland floods. I suggested these emotional reactions are temporary, her government was doomed, and she’d be wise to get out while the going was good.

Howard’s stocks soared in 2002 after the first Bali bombings, but 18 months later he was obviously struggling against an apparently resurgent ALP under Mark Latham.

On the other hand, those events of late 2001, Tampa and then September 11, did seem to produce a permanent shift in Howard’s public standing. He became the Man of Steel and remained that way.

But back then the world (or at least its major geopolitics) changed, and as alluded to above, Australian commentators gave our guy a starring role.

Look, it is appropriate that someone becomes the mourner-in-chief after such a disaster (although some may say the Governor-General could share more of the load), and every nation prioritises its own citizens and residents.

But in our case the conflation with our national insecurity about our place in the world produces something unpleasant.

We do it with extra swagger. Or at least our fourth estate does.

Consuming Australian media on MH-17 is rather claustrophobic at the moment.

Thankfully there’s the internet, where you can see events through others’ eyes.

Or perhaps you don’t agree?

Update: I subsequently had a short chat on ABC Radio National’s Media Report about this (the media, no mention of Tony). Here.
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Just how much consultation with the military did Tone have before opening his trap on this?

http://www.watoday.com.au/act-news/...ed-adf-to-mh17-crash-site-20140726-zx5d2.html

Australian Defence Force personnel will be walking into a volatile situation at the MH17 crash site in Ukraine which they are not prepared for, a senior Defence figure in Australia has warned.
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The senior defence figure in Australia, who did not wish to be named, said it was a poor idea for Australia.
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"They can't secure the site,'' he said. "It's kilometres long and wide. They could escort Australian officials and provide close protection, but this is a civil task rather than a military task and it's a terribly volatile area.

"We don't have the language skills or knowledge of the area.

"For any military deployment you have to look at a status of forces agreement with the government and, given the area the aircraft is in, I don't think there is anyone to make that agreement with.

"What I've heard this morning is the rebels don't want more than 30 investigators there.''
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Again, it is my reading of this that Tone has gone off half-cocked as usual.
 
We should not be sending police to Ukraine.

Talking tough is good but we should not involve ourselves any further.

What the government should be doing is using this as an excuse to support our LNG and uranium exports and lobying in Asia and Europe for people to buy our gas/uranium for their energy needs instead of Russian.
 
The_Reaper said:
We should not be sending police to Ukraine.

Talking tough is good but we should not involve ourselves any further.

What the government should be doing is using this as an excuse to support our LNG and uranium exports and lobying in Asia and Europe for people to buy our gas/uranium for their energy needs instead of Russian.
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I very much understand that sentiment but people will have to be assured first that all the bodies/remains have been accounted for, especially the children.
That's the running sore of this whole issue, as I keep banging on :)
 
The_Reaper said:
We should not be sending police to Ukraine.

Talking tough is good but we should not involve ourselves any further.

What the government should be doing is using this as an excuse to support our LNG and uranium exports and lobying in Asia and Europe for people to buy our gas/uranium for their energy needs instead of Russian.
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Because you want to punish Russia economically for this tragedy or because you genuinely think this is a good "excuse" for Australia to profit?
 
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