Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[NthBondiDoggies]

2016 last chance for Roughead? Dropped from the leadership group. Taken from KPD. Injury prone.

Thoughts?

Very frustrating player isn't he. He shows glimpses of outstanding but then gets injured. This seemed to affect his confidence to go hard at the ball.

As a key back he filled a hole without ever making it as a consistently good player. Lack of aggression and confidence - just seemed to take too long to react and while regularly for a good punch in - too often looked lost.

What he has is skills - and given he off season work looks in great nick but must have more confidence to attack the play. The drink seems to favour players prepared to take the game on and he hasn't shown that yet.

For all the negatives though - this is a game above his shoulders. If he finds a mean streak or a confident swagger/presence he can be a great player for us. Minson is a favourite of mine but age is starting to work against him. A future ruck combo of TC and Roberts is exciting - TC is getting better slowly - and has the opposite problem as Roughy - very resilient and has a presence but still needs skills around the ground. He can play ruck and be very effective pushing forward - when Boyd goes into ruck the structure will be kept in place.

For Roughy he can move well around the ground wearing some into the ground and then move to the opposition ruck forward (Ceglar, Tippet, Lycett, Bellchambers etc most teams have one) or can just start and follow when they go into ruck. He gives us really good flexibility.

Just need to find a way to put some lead in his pencil!

 

[Mattdougie]

Nonsense Matt. With the list and coach we have now, if Lin plays more than 6 games, it will be because he well and truly has earned them. We would have to have an absolutely horrendous run of injuries among our big bodied mids for him to get regular selection any other way.

No

IMO it will be because we have injuries and a lot of them which is why I said if have plays that many we are in trouble

its the only reason he played finals last year and we have an even deeper list this year

 

[paulveed]

No

IMO it will be because we have injuries and a lot of them which is why I said if have plays that many we are in trouble

its the only reason he played finals last year and we have an even deeper list this year

Matt, are you being guilty here of what you frequently accuse others of ? Not reading a post before responding.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Not inconsistent at all just you not listening to my whole comment and picking bits out that suit

Liam Jones had very good year for a young tall in 2011. Fairly consistent and showed he can play the game. Second most contested marks in the league. So he does have some form that he can go ok over an extended period.

The other two have not done anything close to that but while showing some glimpses have done little more than that.

I also said I'm believing that Jones will be a bust but I am interested to see if a decent coach can get some 2011 like form out of him.

Pretty simple really and logical if you arnt just attempting to attack me coz you disagree with me

By the way who are you ? Clearly an old user with a new name so??!

Hahahha testekill likes again ! Click click click what a $&@&&&&

It wasn't an attack but it was a wind up It wasn't meant to be malicious and your point about the 2011 year is fair. I just think even you would agree you have a slight blind spot on Jones where you don't allow the same latitude to to other players that struggle.

However; we all get to have an opinion on this forum and all debate is healthy.

I used to post as womble54 and tried to get them to change my name but couldn't be bothered with the palava of doing that so just opened a new account.

Really think Dunkley has some upside and wanted to back him in with a new username.

Cheers

 

[Deadly Darcy]

2016 last chance for Roughead? Dropped from the leadership group. Taken from KPD. Injury prone.

Thoughts?

Enough runs on the board that I think others would go well before him. He has shown so much talent when fit that he'll get persisted with. That's the difference between Roughy and Cordy the First who showed zero ability to adjust to the senior level.

 

[Mattdougie]

Nonsense Matt. With the list and coach we have now, if Lin plays more than 6 games, it will be because he well and truly has earned them. We would have to have an absolutely horrendous run of injuries among our big bodied mids for him to get regular selection any other way.

No

IMO it will be because we have injuries and a lot of them which is why I said if have plays that many we are in trouble

its the only reason he played finals last year and we have an even deeper list this year

 

[King Harold]

Not a chance imo.

Jong's speed and power are seductive but his pressure is woeful. He's a defensive liability that I'm not sure a modern forward line can cover, particularly with the way we play.

As an example, take Round 2 v Richmond last year - Anthony Miles is streaming forward and Jong ambles lazily after him. Honeychurch comes barrelling in and pins Miles to the ground. Holding the ball and advantage are paid, and Jong is off like a rocket calling for the handpass. It's only one instance but it's damning.

Hrovat and Honeychurch probably won't offer as much in the middle, but if a spot is open up forward and it's between the three, Jong is the last one I pick.

From what I have seen Jong is a more than willing tackler. Seen a lot at VFL level and he does a fair bit of heavy lifting. Also from memory he was in our best 2 or 3 players against Richmond that day ?
Honeychurch will have to improve a fair bit to be more valuable than Jong .
His greatest weakness is his speed and skill. Woeful kick for his size .
No doubt Honey has a manic way of going about his footy , but I fear it won't be enough to get him a long career.

 

[fronkalicious]

Dunkley develops as hoped and jong's a goner Imo.

Honey's a deadman regardless I reckon.

 

[King Harold]

Dunkley develops as hoped and jong's a goner Imo.

Honey's a deadman regardless I reckon.

Your probably right Fronk . Looking forward to having a good look at Dunkley . A more vanilla set of highlights I doubt you can find, but obviously the kid has a fair bit going for him .

But as for Jong , I will be wrapt if he struggles to get a game , but only in the sense our midfield is so powerful its hard to get a look in.
Very happy to have someone like him on the edge of the team.He has already significantly impacted games , and I
Would think there is still improvement in him.

 

[Ozil]

From what I have seen Jong is a more than willing tackler. Seen a lot at VFL level and he does a fair bit of heavy lifting. Also from memory he was in our best 2 or 3 players against Richmond that day ?
Honeychurch will have to improve a fair bit to be more valuable than Jong .
His greatest weakness is his speed and skill. Woeful kick for his size .
No doubt Honey has a manic way of going about his footy , but I fear it won't be enough to get him a long career.

He was very good early in the season but he was never limiting the damage the other way, imo.

I don't disagree that Jong is more valuable overall than Honeychurch at this stage, but if we're picking a starting forward from the two I'm going for the badger.

I share some of your fears for Honey, though. I'm not as concerned about his speed, but his kicking really is poor. He's training quite well this summer but it's evident his action hasn't improved - perhaps someone should be assigned to work with him on it, if they haven't already. If he can polish up his disposal and build an AFL ready body, I think there's a place for him.

Dunkley develops as hoped and jong's a goner Imo.

Pretty much. It'll be interesting to see how long he takes to match Jong's early 2015 output, given his considerably stronger AFL pedigree. Hopefully his body doesn't let him down.

 

[immortalmike]

Mike, surely the fact that Libba Snr won league B & F's at all 3 levels indicates without any doubt at all his Brownlow was in no way a fluke, luck or any other such nonsense. He played to his own strengths, understood both them and his limitations, and so by both brains and heart proved himself to be an elite player at every level. No doubt at all he was not the most skillful player in the comp., but still managed to make himself despite this, one of the most valuable players in the competition over multiple years at what ever level he played.

That's exactly what I was saying. If I gave the impression that I thought Libba's career was lucky or a fluke I'm sorry because I was arguing the exact opposite, i.e., that despite a lack of size and skill he was an elite player.

 

[VitalDread]

That hand injury and mid season surgery really affect jong year
I want to see a full season healthy before deciding his future

 

[Pannalstaroz]

That hand injury and mid season surgery really affect jong year
I want to see a full season healthy before deciding his future

Anyone seen TopDog and Vital in the same room?

 

[Roscoe_au]

Dunkley develops as hoped and jong's a goner Imo.

Honey's a deadman regardless I reckon.

Hrovat up against it as well, you think?

 

[Roscoe_au]

Anyone have Webb in their Round 1 teams? Wondering how he's travelling.

 

[Metal]

Jong has X factor. He's the bloke who can take the contested grab in the forward line to win the premiership. Or the bloke to drift back and take the match saving mark. Or the player to put the burners on and open up play. Or the player that's capable of lifting when the going get tough (as in his finals' performances)

But he takes rather long to get back into the groove after injury, and drifts in and out of games too much for my liking. He needs to up his endurance. Can we afford this? Consistency of performance v a body that affects his output.

As for his weaknesses - not getting back defensively enough and suspect disposal will have to show progress if he is to stand any chance of being top 22 given the pressure being applied for spots in the side. But Crossy and Boydy managed to do well (albeit by racking up possessions) with similar issues that had many screaming at them.

Jong is like a junior share......high risk for high reward. How long do we take the gamble? You'd think this may be his last year to prove himself.

I'm hoping improved fitness / endurance and luck with injuries enable us to see another step up in 2016.

 

[fronkalicious]

Hrovat up against it as well, you think?

I really like his feel for the game, skills and intangibles (leadership and has a lot of campaigner in him). Needs to show his skills more to kick on at the dogs.

I think he has a good AFL career (over 100 games), and hopefully that's at the dogs, but he's at the back of the line at the moment.

 

[doggies ftw]

Jomg still has plenty of upside, wouldnt be writing him off yet. He was the most improved player in the comp and an extremely important part of our set up until his injury and now weve learnt he had OP around the same time which explains the poor form. Had a brilliant final too. Yeah he has weaknesses but his unique strengths more than make up for that, he just has to iron out a few things which is pretty likely. At the end of the day if he's depth were sitting very very well.

If he plays 6 games or more we wont make finals? FACT. What a ******* stupid call I dont know why you people still listen to this s**t. What about the 12 games he played this year where we played finals?

 

[Testekill]

If he plays 6 games or more we wont make finals? FACT. What a ******* stupid call I dont know why you people still listen to this s**t. What about the 12 games he played this year where we played finals?

Those don't count apparently

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I love Jong as much as anybody but people are right in saying that he might not last long.
In my eyes, at what point do we stop saying he's got "upside" and "development" and realise he's been on an AFL list for quite a few years now.

What I do often find forgotten is that pretty much the whole of 2013 was written off with him due to a broken leg. He was playing Williamstown development. Last year was only his second year from that broken leg (and his first pre-season after it) so he still could be finding form and fitness after it. It's amazing how everybody's giving credit for Stringer having a good year because it's the first time he was "genuienly 100%" since his broken leg but we don't extend that same logic to Jong.

 

[Mattdougie]

Those don't count apparently

Again
Hahahhahahahha

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Honey has a lot more to offer than I think he might be getting credit for. Early last year he was pretty good - got a rising star etc but one thing that stood out for me was the fight. In a number of games at the end when everyone looked cooked Honey was running hard - going right back to back flank and running all the way back. Tough hard running like that and (someone will probably correct me) he seemed to have a real impact on setting up Goals. Given the new sub rule - he might surprise a few. His competition as a small forward is there but not in front of him yet.

Jong is an enigma - one minute a great and courageous Mark - the next uncertainty causing him to freeze and the bad skills under created pressure - looking terrible. Earlier in the year he also showed a bit - particularly blistering runs. Took a while to Come back from injury but expect hardness with age will sort that out. In some ways like Stevens - as he plays more and backs himself he becomes more and more valuable. Not expecting another Wood but think he will be a very handy utility. Is he in my starting 22 no but likely injuries mean he is likely to play a reasonable number of games and I expect he will keep improving a lot over the next 2-3 years and keep pushing. As a big fast utility we have less in that category and this will help him.

Hrovat is better than last year - without injury he is a very good player. Problem like Honey is a good one - who does he replace? Hunter (not on last 8 weeks of his great play), Dalhaus (no chance) - Libba, Macrae, Wallis (even less than no chance), Picken (too me he is way underrated and flexible), Stevens - maybe but over the last two years Stevens would have to be in front and is still young too. Won't replace Boyd or Murph when they are done. In in the centre has Smith coming back and Dale, Webb and Dunks coming up (McLean will mostly likely start forward - so more a challenge to Honey). So probably the best player of the three but most competition and least flexibility. However an injury to Libba (touch wood) or Wallis and suddenly he is a great option.

 

[maddog37]

If his kicking improves he will be ok. He also needs to avoid handballing. Needs a bigger tank too. Apart from that he is fine. I do like his ability to mark the ball and his athleticism.

 

[fronkalicious]

If his kicking improves he will be ok. He also needs to avoid handballing. Needs a bigger tank too. Apart from that he is fine. I do like his ability to mark the ball and his athleticism.

Agree that his marking is very very helpful. Stevens and bonti are big in this regard as well. Dunkley has it in his kit bag too I'm led to believe.

 

[doggies ftw]

I love Jong as much as anybody but people are right in saying that he might not last long.
In my eyes, at what point do we stop saying he's got "upside" and "development" and realise he's been on an AFL list for quite a few years now.

What I do often find forgotten is that pretty much the whole of 2013 was written off with him due to a broken leg. He was playing Williamstown development. Last year was only his second year from that broken leg (and his first pre-season after it) so he still could be finding form and fitness after it. It's amazing how everybody's giving credit for Stringer having a good year because it's the first time he was "genuienly 100%" since his broken leg but we don't extend that same logic to Jong.

I get what youre saying in your first paragraph but this year before his injury he showed that he was a capable AFL level player so I dont think its fair to say people who rate him are just going off upside. Hes still on a massive upwards trajectory and until he starts showing signs of that stopping then he still has quite a bit of improvement i reckon