Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[Martyn_30_]

I dont see the point in trading for key position forwards its risky as their not yet proven and you have to give up too much. Drafting them early is fine but with free agency now the hole can be filled instantly with proven quality. There will be plenty of cash in the salary cap over the next few years to get anyone but the club would need the courage to do so something it hasnt done in the past, if you start offering over a million a year to anyone its going to be hard for them to turn it down. Right now obviously isnt the right time as theres no one available, but for the next few years there will be someone coming out of contract and who cares if you lose a few fringe players as a result.

 

[immortalmike]

No he was too old for our needs. Higgins and Grant are perfect age for the Saints though.

Anyway, what would it take?

What I was getting at with that proposed trade is that a borderline best 22 player who has skill but also consistency issues won't cut it and holds very little value on the open market.

Personally I think it'd take an Easton Wood or what Cooney was late last year.

 

[TBOW]

Some weird ideas on player values going on. Patton worth our first rounder & a star player - Jacksh worth our 2nd rounder alone? Not sure about that.

 

[TedDougChris]

Would you have taken pick 9 and Colin Sylvia last year for pick 4?

You'd have to pay me to take Colin Sylvia onto our list... Sylvia plus a pick (a high one) for nothing in return....

 

[TBOW]

If we where able to get a deal offloading our first pick and Higgins then I do it in a second, but I can't see GWS doing that deal.

I said it earlier but the only way this could happen is if we tell GWS we will trade our first pick & whatever compo we get for Higgins for Patton.
Then the onus is on them to make sure we get band 1.
They essentially create a pick 6 or 7 for themselves by over paying Higgins.

 

[fronkalicious]

Unpopular opinion time. I'd take fletcher Roberts ahead of jaksch.

 

[TedDougChris]

Unpopular opinion time. I'd take fletcher Roberts ahead of jaksch.

Fine by me... But if we trade Talia we need another KPD... It might fix one problem if we were to get Boyd/Patton - but it will create another...

So let's play Roberts and Talia and see if we can plug another hole in our list via the draft...

 

[Reptilia]

Who knows. We might pick up a Carlisle etc with a pick in the 20s.

 

[immortalmike]

Unpopular opinion time. I'd take fletcher Roberts ahead of jaksch.

Not unpopular with me. I think I'm vice president of the Fletcher Roberts fan club.

Fine by me... But if we trade Talia we need another KPD... It might fix one problem if we were to get Boyd/Patton - but it will create another...

So let's play Roberts and Talia and see if we can plug another hole in our list via the draft...

Have I missed something? Why are we trading Talia?

 

[TedDougChris]

Have I missed something? Why are we trading Talia?

Some discussion that Talia may have more trade value with GWS now, as Mohr has apparently done a knee and will miss 12 months.... Speculation on this threads part, but it is around 500 pages of speculation so far - a few more won't hurt....

 

[immortalmike]

Some discussion that Talia may have more trade value with GWS now, as Mohr has apparently done a knee and will miss 12 months.... Speculation on this threads part, but it is around 500 pages of speculation so far - a few more won't hurt....

Oh fair enough. Thought it was a rumour. So long as it's just a hypothetical.

 

[TedDougChris]

Oh fair enough. Thought it was a rumour. So long as it's just a hypothetical.

Two people discussing a hypothetical makes it an actual rumour.... Now see what you've done, Barrett will be reporting this as a fact tomorrow night.... And an exclusive....

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Unpopular opinion time. I'd take fletcher Roberts ahead of jaksch.

unpopular or not i agree. We have been hitting the mark with Drafting, take whatever we get for Higgins (since everyone seems convinced he is gone) and go to the draft. Talia can play, he showed that last year, Roberts can too, just needs the opportunity. I also think Redpath could have a role to play, too much has been made from Carlisles 8... kennedy kicked 10 against us i believe and became greatest FF in the league since....oh wait...

Roughy and Morris happened to have a stinker and our defense in general were a little slow on the uptake all night... on the same day Carlisle had the game of his life...just another kneejerk reaction from these forums, proof is how many times carslisle has been mentioned in the same breath as cameron and cloke.... 2 good game is nt enough to get him regarded as a super forward. he may turn out to be, but even jones has had his 15 minutes.

goldfish memory is also another symptom here... Cooney cooney cooney, woohee YEAH.... plays a stinker, how stupid is the couch for playing cooney...lol, yes i read the changes for essendon thread too lol

 

[TedDougChris]

unpopular or not i agree. We have been hitting the mark with Drafting, take whatever we get for Higgins (since everyone seems convinced he is gone) and go to the draft. Talia can play, he showed that last year, Roberts can too, just needs the opportunity. I also think Redpath could have a role to play, too much has been made from Carlisles 8... kennedy kicked 10 against us i believe and became greatest FF in the league since....oh wait...

Roughy and Morris happened to have a stinker and our defense in general were a little slow on the uptake all night... on the same day Carlisle had the game of his life...just another kneejerk reaction from these forums, proof is how many times carslisle has been mentioned in the same breath as cameron and cloke.... 2 good game is nt enough to get him regarded as a super forward. he may turn out to be, but even jones has had his 15 minutes.

goldfish memory is also another symptom here... Cooney cooney cooney, woohee YEAH.... plays a stinker, how stupid is the couch for playing cooney...lol, yes i read the changes for essendon thread too lol

I agree, but plenty were suggesting Cooney should have come back through the VFL - there seemed to be no issue regarding his actual movement v Essendon - just his effort and impact...

 

[Leezorr]

Some weird ideas on player values going on. Patton worth our first rounder & a star player - Jacksh worth our 2nd rounder alone? Not sure about that.

Gws board is crazy. Their list valuation is pretty silly, once these players start wanting more cash/playing time they will take what they can get, or yhey will all walk to the psd.

 

[TedDougChris]

Gws board is crazy. Their list valuation is pretty silly, once these players start wanting more cash/playing time they will take what they can get, or yhey will all walk to the psd.

We overvalue our players too. all club boards do...

 

[fronkalicious]

Jaksch is better in the air than Roberts, and even though they're listed at the same height, I wouldn't be surprised if he's a couple of cms taller. But Roberts is smarter with the footy and uses it better. Both similar athletes. Neither amazing athletically, but jaksch in particular can keep motoring.

 

[Dry Rot]

Mohr gone for much of 2015. Talia chip gets more valuable if we were willing to deal.

There are those rumours of Talia wanting to leave. Doubt though Talia + Pick 6 will do the deal.

 

[Dry Rot]

Re Talia, he may have some value with Port.

With all these speculated trades, I note that IIRC Wood has not re-signed yet. Nor Jones for that matter.

 

[_M_16_]

Who gives the slightest s**t about height?

Scarlett always gave away height to his opponents and he consistently won. Height is one of the least important attributes to a defender.

Yeah but that is still only one component and it helps. What does Morris have that makes up for it? We cant expect Talia and Roberts to both be as strong and smart as Morris. You need height on those high contested balls, and most times if you're shorter against a tall and good opponent you will find it hard, unless you're like Morris who can somehow make it hard. You don't need height, just athleticism and speed for plays on the lead and others etc.

You don't NEED height, but it DOES help and play a part and DOES help. We need someone tall in the backline, else we are screwed against a tall contested marking FF. And Talia and Roberts have a long way to go to be even in Morris league. To make up for lost height you need other attributes, otherwise then yes, height does matter

Also, length of arms, and vertical jump height also are factors as well

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

If we recruit Jaksch, watching people misspell his name for the next decade is going to drive me crazy.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Roughy and Morris happened to have a stinker and our defense in general were a little slow on the uptake all night... on the same day Carlisle had the game of his life...just another kneejerk reaction from these forums

Kneejerk reaction, hey?

Schultz is having a stellar year, sure. But he smashed us. Kennedy is extremely inconsistent - we made him look like John Coleman. Cloke basically has had one good game this year - against us. Carlisle has played well twice - once standing Nick $#$%ing Maxwell and once against us. J. Riewoldt kicked a bag in one quarter against us. Dixon & Lynch looked like comp-leading superstars against us at Metricon. Jamar & Dawes almost single-handedly beat us - it was one of the only times this year Melbourne's scored more than most teams score in a half. Pods & Jenkins - unstoppable against us. Oh, don't forget when we played Henderson & Waite into form as well when Carlton were 0 and 4.

Seeing a pattern here? Or am I being too kneejerk?

Our team has defence issues against tall forwards. It's a fact.

goldfish memory is also another symptom here... Cooney cooney cooney, woohee YEAH.... plays a stinker, how stupid is the couch for playing cooney...lol, yes i read the changes for essendon thread too lol

As for Cooney, these are the Ching standings as at Round 17:

34 - Libba
27 - Macrae
21 - Dahlhaus
20 - Boyd
18 - Picken
17 - Morris, Griffen
15.5 - Higgins
14.5 -Wood
11 - Murphy, Crameri
10 - Bontempelli
7 - Minson
5 - Roughead
3 - Hunter, Jones, Stringer
2 - Cooney
1 - Wallis, Hrovat

Now sure, the B+F rankings would be different - Cooney may well not be in EIGHTEENTH POSITION there. But given his experience and position that might be some indication that Cooney hasn't exactly been dominating the competition in 2014.

Goldfish memory is definitely an issue on the forums. But if you think Cooney is an automatic selection, and we don't have problems defending tall forwards then I'd say your memory is stuck in 2009!

 

[_M_16_]

Goldfish memory is definitely an issue on the forums. But if you think Cooney is an automatic selection, and we don't have problems defending tall forwards then I'd say your memory is stuck in 2009!

I agree with this post. I did say earlier in the year that I feel our defence might turn out to be a bigger issue than our forward line. Whilst yes we have been rather solid defensively this year and have played better down back then up front. But tall forwards give us a hard time and have in most games. The only advantage we have defensively over the forward line, is we probably have a couple more young players waiting in the wings and developing, but neither are big bodied talls, and neither can be expected to be as smart or consistent as Morris. You have to think like all positions need an upgrade, not think like all young players will become stars, there is always room for extra depth and upgrades in all positions. Roughead needs more experience, a bit like it was for Lake, he will get there I beleive. But he does need help. I would be looking at the Durdins, Levers, and Marchbanks of this draft. Even trade up a second round pick, there is no reason we cannot secure two of those three. Would be worth it as well.

And if we get a second round compo for Higgins, id consider going for Conlon if he is still there, or at the third. Still not heaps sold on either father and son player, we could probably find someone just as good around any pick we give up as well

 

[fronkalicious]

Thought wood might be higher in the Ching. Shows Higgins was having a terrific season as well before he had 2 shockers.

 

[the dog's kennel]

Minson on the big breakfast this morning let Darcy know he and i assumed those at the club were not very happy with his suggestion of trading Griffen. Darcy may need to make a few phone calls.

Even though I have in the past advocated for some very aggressive trades (I keep thinking of Hawthorn's efforts in the early 00s) I would never consider trading the Captain of the club. Especially a club which has no heir apparent. That is insanity on Darcy's part.

But hilariously, when Minson was having a go at Darcy, he accidentally handed Darcy the perfect reply - which Darcy was too stupid to realise. He asked Darcy who they should have traded Darcy for when he was Captain. And as far as I could see Darcy's time as Captain would have been pretty much the only time you COULD pull off that kind of move without hurting the club.

Darcy could have easily replied - "When I became Captain in 2005 if you traded me for the latest young phenom tall forward, Johnno would have taken over as captain, the Dogs would have netted Lance Franklin, you would have only missed a few injury-plagued years from me, and the Dogs would have won a premiership in the years 2008-10. And Hawthorn probably wouldn't have."

Of course the Hawks would have never accepted that trade. But even if you traded Darcy when he was 28 (Griffen's age) in 2003 for the latest young phenom tall forward (Riewoldt) that probably would have also won us a premiership in 2009.

Anyway, Darcy has clearly not put more than two seconds thought into his brainfart, so he just stammered a bit and waited for Eddie to bail him out. Classic Darcy.