Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I'd prefer to sign the actual Slim Shady.

NathanMJ_WB54?

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

NathanMJ_WB54?

I feel like I should be in on a joke/am being insulted here.

I didn't wake up all that long ago, help

 

[PJPoet]

Would we consider getting some one like a Kieran Harper from North to add some pace around the edges? Not getting a look in at North so should be relatively cheap to get. 22 years old and already 40 games under his belt. Worth the risk?

 

[Easty]

Haven't seen enough of him - what's his VFL form like?

 

[Dogs Rule]

Q-Stick has retired?
Hudson will for sure.

Grundy & Witts should provide them with first option cover, but a mature-aged state leaguer would help them. We re-signed Campbell and would not want to let him go though.

Hudson will retire again, then pop up at Freo or somewhere for one final year.

 

[Iluvdalhouse]

If we upgrade both Jong and Redpath and I believe we have to now or we have to delist them which means that we need 5 spaces on the list. 2 for the upgrades and 3 for the draft. As a minimum.

So who comes off? Giansiracusa is the only one retiring and even that is not been announced as such. There have been few constants mentioned, Goodes and Howard for example but that is still only 3. Higgins may leave so that is 4 but that is far from certain. So maybe we don't elevate either or both Jong and Redpath, which I don't think is a good idea. Jong in particular, but even Redpath are showing signs.

Some very hard calls to be made that is for sure.

Pearce
Williams
Gia
Goodes
Fuller
Higgins

will be goneski

 

[Super Hans]

Would we consider getting some one like a Kieran Harper from North to add some pace around the edges? Not getting a look in at North so should be relatively cheap to get. 22 years old and already 40 games under his belt. Worth the risk?

I would rather draft/develop someone instead of taking Harper.

 

[Igloo]

Some players get leather poisoning. Kieran Harper has a leather deficiency.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

A family friend's son barracks for North (the rest of the family barrack for Richmond so go figure) and has Harper's number on his back, bizarrely.

Of course, this same 10 year old was all set to go on Street Talk before he pulled a Majak Daw footy card out of his pocket and starting waving it in Sam's face, asking him what he thought of... recent events.

 

[dogzrule]

Pearce
Williams
Gia
Goodes
Fuller
Higgins

will be goneski

Howard I think can be safely added to that list and probably Pearce as I think Darley has probably gone past him already

 

[Super Hans]

Thoughts on Hayden Crozier? He won't be getting a game at Freo while Walters and Ballantyne are there, he could be very good for us on the cheap (third round).

Dahl, Hunter and Crozier rotating through the forwardline/midfield would be an ideal set up IMO. I see Hrovat as more a permanent midfielder once Boyd moves on.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Thoughts on Hayden Crozier? He won't be getting a game at Freo while Walters and Ballantyne are there, he could be very good for us on the cheap (third round).

Dahl, Hunter and Crozier rotating through the forwardline/midfield would be an ideal set up IMO. I see Hrovat as more a permanent midfielder once Boyd moves on.

Pretty sure we were into him in 2011 but selected Smith out of necessity.

I'd swap a third rounder for him in a heartbeat.

 

[Super Hans]

Pretty sure we were into him in 2011 but selected Smith out of necessity.

I'd swap a third rounder for him in a heartbeat.

Yeah, I'd be all over that. Even if Freo wanted to do Crozier and Sheridan for our second round pick, I'd be taking that.

We were very keen on Crozier, not so much Sheridan though.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I feel like I should be in on a joke/am being insulted here.

I didn't wake up all that long ago, help

I've called your skinny, pale GTA character Slim Shady numerous times.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I've called your skinny, pale GTA character Slim Shady numerous times.

It resembles me more than I'd like to admit, apart from the whole 'looking like an extra in a Holocaust movie when the game takes my hair away' thing.

 

[doggies ftw]

Thoughts on Hayden Crozier? He won't be getting a game at Freo while Walters and Ballantyne are there, he could be very good for us on the cheap (third round).

Dahl, Hunter and Crozier rotating through the forwardline/midfield would be an ideal set up IMO. I see Hrovat as more a permanent midfielder once Boyd moves on.

Thats some serious small marking power right there. Agree on Hrovat, though he's pretty damn good around goals so can see him kicking a fair few over the years, hopefully from the midfield.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Would we consider getting some one like a Kieran Harper from North to add some pace around the edges? Not getting a look in at North so should be relatively cheap to get. 22 years old and already 40 games under his belt. Worth the risk?

Harper is very similar to Tutt in that he struggles to get the ball and doesn't take on the game enough when he does have it. On paper his speed is a fantastic attribute but he doesn't use it enough. It's a no for mine, but he does have some nice tools.

Thoughts on Hayden Crozier? He won't be getting a game at Freo while Walters and Ballantyne are there, he could be very good for us on the cheap (third round).

Dahl, Hunter and Crozier rotating through the forwardline/midfield would be an ideal set up IMO. I see Hrovat as more a permanent midfielder once Boyd moves on.

Croz re-signed with the Dockers for two years last year and is pretty content with where he sits from what I know. I don't think Freo would be keen to move him just yet.

Bias aside I'm not totally convinced he makes it just yet; I'd like to see a bit more. If we can get him cheap I wouldn't be opposed, but I think we'd be outbid if he does get put on the table.

 

[King Harold]

He certainly fills a need for us. We need a huge dickhead that's a contested midfielder.

He would drag in the fairer sex , might help our membership drive

 

[timtamWB]

He would drag in the fairer sex , might help our membership drive

Why do we need Robinson for that, when we have the Bont?

 

[doggies ftw]

Why do we need Robinson for that, when we have the Bont?

We already have the classy ones on board because of Bonts and co, Robbo would attract the trash to really boost up the numbers

 

[Igloo]

Trade and list management discussion is cool, guys

 

[King Harold]

Can see he would be the face for membership drive.

 

[JTCWBFC]

God I would like to see Shannon Hurn at the dogs

 

[Hrovat24]

With Boyd apparently re-signing and Murphy pretty much already signed on I see our list spots as being quite interesting. Some tough decisions to make for mine.

Certain Delistings
Daniel Giansiracusa - retired.
Tom Williams - retired.

Almost Certainly Gone
Christian Howard - delisted.
Brett Goodes - delisted.

Opens up a minimum of two, maximum of four main list spots. However, the key dialogue in my opinion comes from the rookie list. The issue comes with the fact that all four rookies have reached the maximum length of time allowed on the rookie list. This means that they have to either be upgraded to the main list, delisted completely, or we have to risk losing them by delisting and re-rookieing them. Let's have a quick look at the players:

Alex Greenwood
Over his three years, it's hard to disagree with the fact that Alex has improved. In his first year he didn't look like doing much at all, but he's built considerably since then and has worked really hard at his craft. Unfortunately, I just don't see him reaching a level where he's AFL standard. He's not good enough at winning contests and clearances to have a role inside, he's not overly damaging on the outside, and he doesn't really have many other strings to his bow. I don't think I've seen him named in the VFL bests many times at all. He has neat skills and is a reasonable mark but I just don't see him getting to the level required of an AFL footballer. From all reports a great bloke and I hope he proves me wrong in the back end of the season, but I just don't see it and don't think he's shown nearly enough for us to persist with.
Verdict: delist.

Mark Austin
Here's one that seriously divides opinion. From my point of view, I don't think he should be in the team at the minute, but I do view him as a feasible depth option. He's never going to be more than a workman-like stop-gap for mine so the decision has to be made of whether we keep him on the list for support/depth, or we allow his rookie spot to go to a youngster with potential but other flaws and back our development staff. I can see the merit in both sides, but for mine I think - unless we're totally confident of getting a key defender in the draft - we need to keep him around. If one of Roughead, Morris or Talia go down, Roberts is pretty much our only option without taking Crameri or Stringer out of the forward line. Young is around but I don't see him as a feasible option as a tall defender. Not to mention the fact that Austin is currently in the seniors. That said, I don't think there's much risk of another club taking him if we decide to re-rookie him, so perhaps it's a risk worth taking. But then he isn't available unless somebody is LTI eligible, which is no guarantee.
Verdict: 50/50. Either upgrade, or re-rookie. Leaning towards upgrade.

Lin Jong
Yet another that divides opinion. Positives: tall, strong, deceptively quick, good overhead, great defensively, nice tackler, courageous, versatile, and probably drums up some support from the Asian community. Sounds great, right? Unfortunately he's a less than consistent kick (with his worst being awful), doesn't always make the right decision, doesn't win much of the ball and doesn't have a great endurance base. For Jongy it's all about whether or not we see his issues as being fixable long term. At the moment he isn't AFL standard but he has a lot of weapons that could help him get there; if we see his issues as fixable, he's worth persisting with. But I have doubts that he can get to that standard consistently. He's played some really nice VFL games over the past couple of years and has shown steady improvement, so I'm not against giving him another go if we see him continuing to improve.
Verdict: another toughie. Upgrade, re-rookie and delist are all feasible options as far as I'm concerned, but probably leaning towards giving him another opportunity. Perhaps a re-rookie is in order as he's still a project.

Jack Redpath
He's probably stunned all of us this year with his unbelievable VFL form up forward, culminating in an AFL debut. He's hardly disgraced himself and our forward line has looked much more consistent with him in there, but as somebody that hasn't had a large impact there is one main question that needs to be asked: 1) at almost 24 already, can big Jack improve his game enough to be a genuine long-term option for us? We all know that big guys can take a while to reach their potential, and as a raw, massive bloke there is certainly a case for keeping him based on that. To add to that, he seems a pretty quick learner and adjusts his game rapidly when it is needed. Take his first game for instance: allowed Harry Taylor to get free with ease for the entire first quarter, then after that really recovered and didn't allow him anywhere near as much space. I'm enjoying the physical presence Jack is bringing and think there is improvement left in him. Just how much, I really don't know. I don't see him becoming a genuine, long-term best 22 key forward, but he's shown that he's at least a serviceable full forward option for a side lacking talls for the time being.
Verdict: upgrade or re-rookie for me. I think I'd probably go upgrade, so we are able to play him should one of our talls struggle with form (which, let's be honest, is not exactly unheard of).

What's interesting here is that if JMac agrees with my thoughts, we could have up to three rookies upgraded. This means that of those four available list spots, a minimum of one remains. Considering we seem to like to have at least three draft picks (and we probably need to), and have a tendency to use very late picks to bring across fringe guys (Tom Young, Sam Darley and to an extent Koby Stevens). Additionally, whispers of us moving our first rounder for potentially multiple assets continue to grow louder and potentially send us further over the maximum list size. Shaun Higgins is obviously a possibility to leave but I still think he'll stay around. So if we are to give these rookies more opportunities, in all likelihood we're going to need to make more cuts from the main list.

The problem I see with this is that there probably aren't clear cut candidates for delisting. There are possible ones, sure, but you can argue against most of them. My thoughts on those I see being 'at risk:'

Knife's Edge
Jarrad Grant - he's one of our most creative players but you never know what you're going to get with him. With a number of players filling his sort of role he's no guarantee to work himself back into the side. If he can't get back into the side, perhaps a trade would represent the best value - even if it is just an upgrade. Moving forward I still think he has something to offer, however.
Verdict: retain.

Jason Tutt - Tutty's carved out a nice little niche for himself this year in my opinion. He's never going to be a world-beater but this year when he's gotten opportunities he's made the most out of them, kicking some valuable goals and giving us some breakaway player. He's a nice option to have on-call whenever we need him in my view. However, I'm of the view that he could probably be playing regular senior footy for a side such as Melbourne. Their bottom end is awful, and they lack speed - I feel that Jason would add a lot to them, so I can see him leaving. I'd like to keep him, but it all depends if Tutt would like to seek greater opportunity.
Verdict: retain if possible.

Daniel Pearce - Pearce does some brilliant defensive work and looks to be a versatile option that can play as a lockdown small. Unfortunately though, his offensive game just hasn't been up to scratch. His skills are average, he's not overly quick, and he doesn't make the best decisions when in possession. I really feel for Daniel because he just hasn't stayed uninjured for long enough to show any significant improvement in his weaknesses. I don't think he's shown enough but that's largely not his fault and with Macca being very keen on ensuring these young guys get enough time to show improvement, we may err on the compassionate side and give him another year. I just don't see how we can keep him with list spots tight.
Verdict: delist.

Tom Young - Young broke out for us last year to play a really valuable role as both a rebounding defender, and, at times, a versatile shutdown defender. This year though, for whatever reason, his form has just completely dropped away. He looks slow, panicked and largely unaware of what on Earth is happening around him. He's been found out continuously playing as a tall defender and has had way too many goals kicked on him. He's at his best when he runs off his man and gives us some rebound from the defensive 50, but he just hasn't done it enough this year - and when he does, his disposal has gone haywire. I don't think we've played Tom to his strengths this year so I'd be prepared to give him another year if this was a development move - however, his form needs to improve dramatically.
Verdict: retain.

Matthew Fuller - I don't really know where to start with Fuller. As a powerful 23 year old rebounding half-back with a huge left boot he was supposed to come straight in and play a big part in our season...but here we are at round 19 with a debut seemingly a long, long, long way off. Put simply, he hasn't been able to win any respectable number of disposals - even when given midfield time - and hasn't been good enough defensively to compensate for it. According to our injury list he's been fit as a fiddle all season, but I find that hard to believe. He's been on and off the ground and in and out of the VFL team. In a televised game the commentators were heard saying that our medical staff were dealing with a persistent shoulder issue that just needed to be managed, and this would partially explain his lack of form. However, my info from a couple of people in SA suggests that these shoulder issues have in fact been a problem for a while. It begs the question of whether his body is actually up to it, and whether he will be able to stay on the park for long enough to build up any semblance of form. For mine, this decision is as much the medical staff's as it is JMac's - but based on what we've seen, and given the battle for list spots, I just don't think he can be given another year.
Verdict: delist, but I think he will end up being retained.

So in the end, my moves would free up six list spots - with two filled by upgraded rookies. This, in my opinion, allows us to take a few quality picks at the draft while still having the flexibility to explore multiple-piece trades, or free agency signings (either delisted or otherwise). It allows us three rookie picks as well; something we haven't had in a while.

That said, I think the delistings of Fuller and Pearce would be quite difficult for us to do, given injury. But I just don't see another way around it unless we cut our losses with two or more of our rookies. It's going to be interesting to see what we do, especially given Macca's record with persisting with these sorts of guys that may not have had enough time to prove themselves due to injury.

I would delist Jong will never be best 22 as a footballer , I think one of Austin and young should be delisted as well as long as we draft a key back or trade for one , redpath is a tough one has taken so long to get a game and now that he has played I'm not sure he is afl standard probably deserves another year

 

[The Original Swooper]

MAIN LIST
Confirmed Gone: Gia & Williams
Should go: Howard, Pearce, Fuller, Goodes (VFL)

This frees up 6 spots.

Bait: Grant, Higgins, Young, Dickson, Stevens, Boyd (eg, Crossy)
Not fussed if all/none retained, but surely these "fringies" could play a part in bartering ?

ROOKIES
Austin Elevate (Ready made underrated back-up)
Redpath Elevate (we don't as yet have anyone resembling a true "monster" forward. if we focus & succeed in recruiting/drafting one, Big Red may be in trouble).
Greenwood Delist
Jong Elevate His improvement warrants another year, but wouldn't expect anybody to cop a 4th year as a (re)rookie, so he either gets a gig or we delist.

So 3 spots open, with one or 2 more feasible via trading. I can't see tears flowing for any of above losses; and the anticipation of finding our missing pieces is exciting me, and allay any perceived "losses".