Recruiting EFC Trade/Draft Talk II with F/A rules in OP - Billings for a fourth rounder the latest rumour

[LukeParkerno1]

See that is a better option ethdog and you know what I would have little problem going for Scott Selwood. Better option than Priddis at least for our team

 

[eth-dog]

Not one of those "outside" players works hard defensively. Stanton and Colyer and "fantastic" in the once sentence does not sit well with me either.


The numbers are also distorted by the way we have been playing especially in the first half of the year. There was a lot of chipping the ball and high possession counts and little in the way of contested possession battles of attrition.

In 2013 we were 9th for average CP, 15th in diff, 9th for clearance, 12th for diff. We were still second for UP. In 2012 we were 8th for average CP and 14th for average clearances, 10th and 9th for diff respectively.

Essendon are 8th in the league for overall clearances this season, so yes based purely on that stat alone we are middle of the pack. Not really sure how else you can measure 'inside' midfield performance.

10th in average clearances and 13th for average CP's (averages are better measure due to not everybody playing same amount of times).

I'm half with you and half against. It's the type of inside player that I've got a problem with as I'm of the view that we can't continue to load up with slow midfielders because the game isn't played like it was when Geelong was dominant.

The game has moved on slightly and work rate is more important than simply winning the ball and there is a lot to be said about the ability of slow players to win the ball at centre clearances where there is more space anyway (which tends to be a point of weakness).

I don't know if I'm just being unrealistic but if we're talking about Scott Selwood (who rightly or wrongly is someone I consider to be far from a star) I'd be at the table asking for an opening price.

It's pretty clear that we need another inside midfielder, rather than another outside. Right now I think we play 1 too many outside midfielders, and 1 too few inside midfielders.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

We should have been trying Pears last year not just this year. I expect that boat to have sailed by now.

I can't see Edwards standing a key forward or someone like Bontempelli but I like the idea of having a tall flanker who can provide the aerial support anyway. He was looking quite good in defense at the start of the year but has gotten lost up the ground in the middle part of the VFL season which has to be a concern as far as him playing on a wing is concerned.

Who knows, Mackie was s**t for years, Birchall started an "outside" defender who played small and I never thought that Dempsey could be taught to defend the way he defends.

Bontempelli is an anomaly though. Anyone else in the league with his height is a genuine KPP, he's a small with the aerial ability to match his height. He's someone to worry about in a few years' time when the Dogs have the team to make him a dangerous force. Until then, it's not worth worrying about an inability to match up well on him.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

If we happen to bid on some of these academy players with pick 19, will other clubs have to match us with their first or second Rd pick?

Their next pick, as per any other pick. Bidding a later first rounder doesn't mean the club is obliged to use their first rounder.

As an example, in 2011 Port Adelaide bid pick 7 on both Viney and Daniher. Viney went with Melbourne's next pick (26) and Daniher went with our next pick (10). If someone had pick pick 11, we wouldn't have had to use 10, but Melbourne would still have had to use 26.

 

[Keystone agony]

FFS we are +48 in contested possessions compared to our opposition and +47 for clearances compared to our opposition. Give it a rest. We have an extremely high UP count because of our style if you cant see that or understand that then im not sure where else this discussion/argument can go.

 

[Keystone agony]

An how are Hocking and Howlett not mentioned as inside midfielders for us and also Goddard has the ability aswell, it just depends on his role and for the moment and future he is probably better on the outside or leading up as a forward.

eth-dog why don't you like Shuey as a better option (Even though I know he's unrealistic)

 

[eth-dog]

FFS we are +48 in contested possessions compared to our opposition and +47 for clearances compared to our opposition. Give it a rest. We have an extremely high UP count because of our style if you cant see that or understand that then im not sure where else this discussion/argument can go.

We rank 13th in CP's. That's the lowest of the top 11 sides. We're 10th for clearances. I'm not complaining about our outside numbers, I love being good in that area, but we need to be stronger inside

An how are Hocking and Howlett not mentioned as inside midfielders for us and also Goddard has the ability aswell, it just depends on his role and for the moment and future he is probably better on the outside or leading up as a forward.

eth-dog why don't you like Shuey as a better option (Even though I know he's unrealistic)

Must have been an oversight.

Shuey isn't really what we need. He's very similar to Zaka, and as much as I'd love to have 2 of them, we need someone who's work is the opposite, mostly inside work but not terrible outside. A cheap option would be Jarryd Lyons from Adelaide. Dominates the SANFL, not fast but not slow, decent skills and for whatever reason can't get a look in at Adelaide

 

[Keystone agony]

So would i but i am looking at it in real terms, lots of talk but 90% unrealistic. Of course if someone offers a good deal you look at it.
have simply stated my opinion that it is unlikely we we do a lot this year other than be a fringe player in trading and FA.

How much can guys like Melksham, Dempsey potentially get us? What would their worth be at the right clubs.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

How much can guys like Melksham, Dempsey potentially get us? What would their worth be at the right clubs.

Dempsey would be worth the most although I would be hesitant to trade him, critical to our structure

 

[Keystone agony]

We rank 13th in CP's. That's the lowest of the top 11 sides. We're 10th for clearances. I'm not complaining about our outside numbers, I love being good in that area, but we need to be stronger inside

Must have been an oversight.

Shuey isn't really what we need. He's very similar to Zaka, and as much as I'd love to have 2 of them, we need someone who's work is the opposite, mostly inside work but not terrible outside. A cheap option would be Jarryd Lyons from Adelaide. Dominates the SANFL, not fast but not slow, decent skills and for whatever reason can't get a look in at Adelaide

You do know Eth that the amount of CPs in different games can be vastly different. You need to listen to Scott. We are +48 in CPs compared to opposition this year which is a huge positive for us. Teams and coaches don't look at the total CP for the year per team, they look at the +/- over their opposition throughout the year. Which we are really good in.

Id happily take a shuey. Hes football quicker than anyone in our midfield. Hes an inside/outside type which I really cherish and can kick goals. He probably doesn't work hard enough the other way.

FWIW guys like Lyons, O'Rourke, A.Young id be happy to take if they don't cost to much as they are still really young and add great depth.

What I think the club needs is pretty straight forward.

KPF/3rd tall forward /Depth
KPD depth
Ruck depth (doubt Thurlow will be on the list next year)
Speed/Quick outside line breaking wingman/forward types (WHE, Sumner, Rohan sorts could really benefit our side IMO) - the style not necessarily these players.

 

[Keystone agony]

Dempsey would be worth the most although I would be hesitant to trade him, critical to our structure

Hes been pretty average this year even though we have gone alright. admittingly off a non prep. However id be confident Winderlich is better off halfback and I still think Gleeson is going be a hell of a player.

 

[eth-dog]

You do know Eth that the amount of CPs in different games can be vastly different. You need to listen to Scott. We are +48 in CPs compared to opposition this year which is a huge positive for us. Teams and coaches don't look at the total CP for the year per team, they look at the +/- over their opposition throughout the year. Which we are really good in.

Id happily take a shuey. Hes football quicker than anyone in our midfield. Hes an inside/outside type which I really cherish and can kick goals. He probably doesn't work hard enough the other way.

FWIW guys like Lyons, O'Rourke, A.Young id be happy to take if they don't cost to much as they are still really young and add great depth.

What I think the club needs is pretty straight forward.

KPF/3rd tall forward /Depth
KPD depth
Ruck depth (doubt Thurlow will be on the list next year)
Speed/Quick outside line breaking wingman/forward types (WHE, Sumner, Rohan sorts could really benefit our side IMO) - the style not necessarily these players.

Which Scott? I don't particularly rate either highly, especially Brad Scott, who is by far the most inept coach in the AFL. A good coach would have North in te top 4 right now.

If he came for free maybe, I just don't see him helping us jump from a lower half of the 8 side to a top 4 side.

Lyons is someone who can push our inside midfield up a notch IMO, really smart around the stoppages. O'Rourke I haven't seen much of, Aaron Young would be surplus to our needs from the little I've seen.

And KPD depth would be just about last on our list. I'd say:

KPF (x2)
Ruck (x2)
Inside midfielder
Fast outside midfielder

Defence depth

 

[Keystone agony]

Which Scott? I don't particularly rate either highly, especially Brad Scott, who is by far the most inept coach in the AFL. A good coach would have North in te top 4 right now.

If he came for free maybe, I just don't see him helping us jump from a lower half of the 8 side to a top 4 side.

Lyons is someone who can push our inside midfield up a notch IMO, really smart around the stoppages. O'Rourke I haven't seen much of, Aaron Young would be surplus to our needs from the little I've seen.

And KPD depth would be just about last on our list. I'd say:

KPF (x2)
Ruck (x2)
Inside midfielder
Fast outside midfielder

Defence depth

So you think Lyons would make us a better side than Shuey would?

 

[eth-dog]

So you think Lyons would make us a better side than Shuey would?

Yes, due to the relative strengths and weaknesses of our midfield, and their relative strengths and weaknesses. Theoretically, let's say they push out J Merrett. Let's say our outside midfield is currently rated as an 8/10 and our inside a 5/10. Shuey lifts our outside midfield to an 8.5/10 and doesn't really lift our inside midfield. Lyons, however, lifts our inside midfield to a 6.5/10 and doesn't really change our outside midfield. There's no doubt Shuey's a better player, but Lyons suits our needs more. See what I'm getting at?

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Personally think our inside is much better than our outside. Though we are lacking one hard nosed body on body mid.

 

[Big Fresh]

Personally think our inside is much better than our outside. Though we are lacking one hard nosed body on body mid.

Yep, Watson, Heppell, Myers, and Hocking is much much better than 5/10.

 

[Keystone agony]

Yes, due to the relative strengths and weaknesses of our midfield, and their relative strengths and weaknesses. Theoretically, let's say they push out J Merrett. Let's say our outside midfield is currently rated as an 8/10 and our inside a 5/10. Shuey lifts our outside midfield to an 8.5/10 and doesn't really lift our inside midfield. Lyons, however, lifts our inside midfield to a 6.5/10 and doesn't really change our outside midfield. There's no doubt Shuey's a better player, but Lyons suits our needs more. See what I'm getting at?

I knew what you were saying.

Shuey avgs over 10 CP per game and the same as Griffen, Jack and Lewis as mids that are more considered inside types. IIRC Shuey also avgs 5 clearances a game ranked inside the top 20 in the AFL.

Id much prefer Shuey. But hes unrealistic whereas Lyons isn't.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Hes been pretty average this year even though we have gone alright. admittingly off a non prep. However id be confident Winderlich is better off halfback and I still think Gleeson is going be a hell of a player.

Defensively he has been outstanding, I agree his run has been lacking but first and foremost he is a defender, and he is doing that well. Unlike Gleeson and Licha, Dempsey can play tall.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Id much prefer Shuey. But hes unrealistic whereas Lyons isn't.

Stupidly hope we are not going after Lyons, talk about targeting C/D graders! Did we not learn from the Brent Prismall disaster!

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Yep, Watson, Heppell, Myers, and Hocking is much much better than 5/10.

Watson and Heppell are both top 15ish inside midfielders in the competition. Very few teams would have that. Still, we need more depth.

 

[eth-dog]

I knew what you were saying.

Shuey avgs over 10 CP per game and the same as Griffen, Jack and Lewis as mids that are more considered inside types. IIRC Shuey also avgs 5 clearances a game ranked inside the top 20 in the AFL.

Id much prefer Shuey. But hes unrealistic whereas Lyons isn't.

Didn't know that. I still think his best role would be similar to Zaka and it's much of a muchness to have both IMO.

Maybe I was underrating our inside midfield but our outside is one of the best in the league. Port, Hawthorn and Sydney are better but I'd take ours over the rest.

Defensively he has been outstanding, I agree his run has been lacking but first and foremost he is a defender, and he is doing that well. Unlike Gleeson and Licha, Dempsey can play tall.

Yeah, Dempsey's conceded a ridiculously low number of goals since he's returned, and his attacking game is getting a lot better.

Stupidly hope we are not going after Lyons, talk about targeting C/D graders! Did we not learn from the Brent Prismall disaster!

Brent Prismall was firming himself as a best 22 player before his second knee reco. Absolutely unfathomable comment. And on talent Lyons is definitely NOT D Grade.

 

[Keystone agony]

Defensively he has been outstanding, I agree his run has been lacking but first and foremost he is a defender, and he is doing that well. Unlike Gleeson and Licha, Dempsey can play tall.

When has Dempsey played tall?

Stupidly hope we are not going after Lyons, talk about targeting C/D graders! Did we not learn from the Brent Prismall disaster!

unfortunately you cant get A graders for pick 60-70.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Dempsey can play tall.

They play him tall because we don't have 4th tall options but can't do it very well. He has reach but gets bodied out easily.

 

[Keystone agony]

Watson and Heppell are both top 15ish inside midfielders in the competition. Very few teams would have that. Still, we need more depth.

Watson, Heppell, Hocking, Myers, Goddard, Howlett, Melksham, NOB - plenty of depth IMO

Edit: Forgot Browne aswell signed on for another year.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

When has Dempsey played tall?

unfortunately you cant get A graders for pick 60-70.

Dempsey can play tall, purely at his height.

Exactly so how about we try and find the next Geeson at pick 60-70 rather than getting a bloke who AT BEST is C grade and I'm being generous there!