Society/Culture Tradies get 26 RDOs a year.

[The Coup]

Not to mention the hangover of society benefitting from talented women as teachers in the pre-feminsist era, and not raising the pay of teachers sufficiently to retain the most talented women teachers, or attract the right people.

That's capitalism hey. We could have avoided this problem if these so called private schools weren't sucking the state system dry. *en leeches man.

 

[The_Reaper]

Lazy? A generation of children has been so badly educated by the state that a large % can't write a simple letter without numerous grammatical errors. Basic maths is also beyond most.

Who is to blame for that?

Education department bureaucrats.
I remember my science teachers in high school deliberately teaching us things that were ruled out because they were considerd 'too hard' but the teacher thought was required to actually get students understanding the subject.

Some teachers are pure s**t though. Years later I'm still pissed off about getting marked down for a WWII essay because 'the USSR and Japan were irrelevant to WWII'

 

[The Coup]

LOL the winner of the war was irrelevant?

That's gold.

 

[The Coup]

I've argued for years that the soviet contribution to WW2 is completely undervalued in the west, especially in our schools. But then, how are you going to demonise socialism if you teach everyone that the socialists saved the world from Hitler?

 

[Saintt]

Parents who either can not or will not make the time. Stuff all one teacher can do in a class of 20 or so kids with massive differences in skills. Teach at the middle and hope for the best.

Or group kids by their ability like our school did.

 

[The Coup]

Or group kids by their ability like our school did.

A lot of schools don't have the public funding necessary to even identify the relevant groups.

But I heard King's is getting a new firing range soon.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Or group kids by their ability like our school did.

Not currently fashionable.

 

[mottrain]

I've argued for years that the soviet contribution to WW2 is completely undervalued in the west, especially in our schools. But then, how are you going to demonise socialism if you teach everyone that the socialists saved the world from Hitler?

Marxist maddman.

 

[The Coup]

You disagreeing that the soviets won WW2?

 

[telsor]

I've argued for years that the soviet contribution to WW2 is completely undervalued in the west, especially in our schools. But then, how are you going to demonise socialism if you teach everyone that the socialists saved the world from Hitler?

I think it's more just the natural tendancy to overrate those we most relate to....We think highly of Australia's contribution to both world wars, but really, we were an extremely tiny piece of it.

We can't really relate to the Soviet efforts (in some part because their paranoid secrecy means we hear little of the details...Hell, most of what we know about the war there is still actually from the Germans) so we tend to underrate them.

 

[telsor]

You disagreeing that the soviets won WW2?

They wouldn't have won by themselves, but they had a very big part.

 

[telsor]

On teachers.

Pay them more, and make them responsible for their results.

If they under perform, then sack them.

 

[The Coup]

They wouldn't have won by themselves, but they had a very big part.

They clearly would have defeated Nazi Germany by themselves, and Japan. That's arguably why we dropped the bomb.

 

[The Coup]

On teachers.

Pay them more, and make them responsible for their results.

If they under perform, then sack them.

Provided you agree that class sizes will remain at X, and the curriculum will be Y i.e. you can't hold them responsible for their results unless you make them responsible for all aspects of teaching.

 

[telsor]

They clearly would have defeated Nazi Germany by themselves, and Japan. That's arguably why we dropped the bomb.

Disagree.

The Germans had them close to beaten as they rolled into Stalingrad. If they hadn't needed to watch their backs (both coast and air), and had been able to deploy the ~20% of their forces that were in the west, it would probably have pushed them over the edge. (The Russians probably wouldn't have been able to respond to 20-30 divisions attacking Moscow at the same time for example).


Also, if the Japanese hadn't been at war with the US, the Russians may have retained more forces in the easy (forces that were vital when redeployed to Stalingrad).

 

[telsor]

Provided you agree that class sizes will remain at X, and the curriculum will be Y i.e. you can't hold them responsible for their results unless you make them responsible for all aspects of teaching.

If some teachers achieve under similar conditions, and others don't, then those who don't should bear the consequences.

 

[The Coup]

If some teachers achieve under similar conditions, and others don't, then those who don't should bear the consequences.

No that is silly, you're basically saying that if there are some super dedicated and super talented teachers out there who can feasibly succeed in spite of the failures of the department of education and a lack of funding, that you should also expect those teachers who are just there for a paycheck to also achieve those results.

That is completely unrealistic.

 

[vealesy]

How about they just ban idiots from attending school and just flog them off to mining companies and the public service to groom them up to be the next wave of overpaid idiots.

 

[raskolnikov]

On teachers.

Pay them more, and make them responsible for their results.

If they under perform, then sack them.

In theory sounds good but how exactly do you assess that?

 

[bombersfan4000]

RDO hours have been worked and accumulated. They aren't gifted to the Employees.
A tradie works an 8 hour day but only gets paid a 36 hour week with an RDO each fortnight.

thats pretty much standard in all of the union agreements.
this thread is another teach whinge thread.
what is the pay rate for the teacher and what is the pay rate for a tradie.
tradies work in all forms of conditions and the physical nature takes its toll on the body.
a teacher works in a heated or airconed class room.

being a tradie my self and have a total 7 teachers in my family & a few mates that are teaches as well. they all have 2 things in common, they all whinge and have a lot of time off
teaches have it easy

 

[bombersfan4000]

How about they just ban idiots from attending school and just flog them off to mining companies and the public service to groom them up to be the next wave of overpaid idiots.

 

[telsor]

No that is silly, you're basically saying that if there are some super dedicated and super talented teachers out there who can feasibly succeed in spite of the failures of the department of education and a lack of funding, that you should also expect those teachers who are just there for a paycheck to also achieve those results.

That is completely unrealistic.

I don't expect them to measure up the best, merely not be the worst.

Give the bottom 10% get the 'improve or else' message..if they don't improve, sack them.

 

[telsor]

In theory sounds good but how exactly do you assess that?

Relative performance...How do their students do compared to similar students? (same school, same area, same level).

 

[doppleganger]

Relative performance...How do their students do compared to similar students? (same school, same area, same level).

Very dangerous path to tread....

who is doing the assessment of the kids?? A teacher's salary is benchmarked to their corrections or how hard they set an exam??

Why would people want to help struggling kids?

What about past or future performance of the kids?

 

[The Coup]

Disagree.

The Germans had them close to beaten as they rolled into Stalingrad. If they hadn't needed to watch their backs (both coast and air), and had been able to deploy the ~20% of their forces that were in the west, it would probably have pushed them over the edge. (The Russians probably wouldn't have been able to respond to 20-30 divisions attacking Moscow at the same time for example).


Also, if the Japanese hadn't been at war with the US, the Russians may have retained more forces in the easy (forces that were vital when redeployed to Stalingrad).

But they were never going to be able to deploy those Western forces. England had already declared war on them.

The Soviets knew they had the demographics no matter what. They were going to invade Germany it was a matter of time.

At the end of the fighting in Europe, the Soviets had a standing army of around 10 million men, with an absolute monopoly on strategic position in Europe and a further monopoly on the best military generals in the world.

The yanks threw Churchill out at the mere suggestion of taking the war to the Russians conventionally. Piss addled old brain had clearly given up after decades of abuse, and those teetotaler yankees weren't having a bar of him.

If there's a "world heavyweight championship" of conventional warfare, the Russians still hold the belt. The Germans erased that first Russian army in one summer, and the Russians had raised two in its place in that same period of time.

Demographics win wars. Also Zerg Rush.