Politics Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

[kickazz]

There will always be a % who feel trading with others nationalities is a negative. History has proven them wrong time and time again.

Note these turkeys are the same turkeys who rush to buy cheap imported s**t yet complain that there are no jobs. So not only are they racist, they tend to lack resolve.

Agree that in general free trade is a good thing, and enjoy many of your posts here based on your well informed experience but playing the racist card here is a pretty lazy effort. Compared to a generation or two ago, Australians are genuinely worried about where jobs are going to come from. Calling them racist is unfair.

From what I can see, the TPP is a way for the wealthy elite around the world to circumvent that inconvenience known as democracy. I'm all for creating jobs for people in poorer countries - but over the years, workers in wealthy nations have built up fair conditions, protections for safety, for health, protections for environment. I want to see an agreement that will promote these conditions in poorer countries - so far I'm afraid we are instead focusing on punishing countries that try to maintain or promote them.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Does that mean US cigarette companies can sue the Australian government due to the plain packaging laws? How fcuked is that?

Phillip Morris has already tried to sue the Australian govt over packaging.

 

[Mike Smyth]

This is outrageous. I wonder what the Left think of good old Obama now.

Anyone know if there are any protests being organised against this? Every Australian should be outraged and need to get off our asses rather that sit by apathetically and allow our future to be sold out.

 

[CountryRace]

From what I can see, the TPP is a way for the wealthy elite around the world to circumvent that inconvenience known as democracy.

Well said sir

 

[CountryRace]

This is outrageous. I wonder what the Left think of good old Obama now.

Anyone know if there are any protests being organised against this? Every Australian should be outraged and need to get off our asses rather that sit by apathetically and allow our future to be sold out.

It goes higher than Obama ...

I don't think the left is at fault IMHO

Totally agree with the last bit. Feel a bit sad for the kid eh

 

[Mike Smyth]

It goes higher than Obama ...

I don't think the left is at fault IMHO

Totally agree with the last bit. Feel a bit sad for the kid eh

I naively thought Obama would be able to make real change but the fact this is going to be implemented and George Bush isn't in jail, tells us that even the president of the US has no real power.

Interesting times.

 

[LennyStarkiller]

It's sad to know that no matter who is in government, Liberal or Labor, this agreement is going to get signed.

 

[Power Raid]

Agree that in general free trade is a good thing, and enjoy many of your posts here based on your well informed experience but playing the racist card here is a pretty lazy effort. Compared to a generation or two ago, Australians are genuinely worried about where jobs are going to come from. Calling them racist is unfair.

From what I can see, the TPP is a way for the wealthy elite around the world to circumvent that inconvenience known as democracy. I'm all for creating jobs for people in poorer countries - but over the years, workers in wealthy nations have built up fair conditions, protections for safety, for health, protections for environment. I want to see an agreement that will promote these conditions in poorer countries - so far I'm afraid we are instead focusing on punishing countries that try to maintain or promote them.

Or it is simply a law to hold our governments accountable to their own laws

so maybe it is the protection for all individuals, including aliens, from 14 second sound bite politics

 

[Maggie5]

Or it is simply a law to hold our governments accountable to their own laws

so maybe it is the protection for all individuals, including aliens, from 14 second sound bite politics

Or simply a way for other government to hold our government to their laws?

 

[kickazz]

Or it is simply a law to hold our governments accountable to their own laws

so maybe it is the protection for all individuals, including aliens, from 14 second sound bite politics

Is a good point, but I figured that's what the High Court is for. I guess it gets tricky when trying to deal with other nations though as our High Court in theory should not give a stuff about foreign laws. That is where the TPP would come in.

But with the secrecy, we just don't know.

 

[Power Raid]

Is a good point, but I figured that's what the High Court is for. I guess it gets tricky when trying to deal with other nations though as our High Court in theory should not give a stuff about foreign laws. That is where the TPP would come in.

But with the secrecy, we just don't know.

You're right but I think your view of this is too narrow. This is more about bringing international standards to developing nations. We already have these provisions in place within a well structured framework, so the TPP means very little change in Oz. What it does do, is bring and enforce this wonderful framework we already have to other nations.

So the fear mongering is not only embarrassing but disgraceful. As it stopping this policy effectively locks people into poverty. Then again, their are some people would like to see foreigners kept in poverty.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Hey Power Raid, where do you get your opinions from? All that nonsense you just posted above, where does it come from? Who are you parroting?

Either way, for you to repeat that kind of anti-nationalist garbage on this forum the way you do is genuinely treacherous and you and your ilk would want to hope that Australians remain docile, apathetic and stupid. Because if they ever wake up to what is being done to their country, they won't stop with the politicians and news presenters.

 

[Power Raid]

Or simply a way for other government to hold our government to their laws?

no

 

[Power Raid]

Hey Power Raid, where do you get your opinions from? All that nonsense you just posted above, where does it come from? Who are you parroting?

Either way, for you to repeat that kind of anti-nationalist garbage on this forum the way you do is genuinely treacherous and you and your ilk would want to hope that Australians remain docile, apathetic and stupid. Because if they ever wake up to what is being done to their country, they won't stop with the politicians and news presenters.

what do you disagree with? do you disagree that we already have a high court that deals with these issues already?

 

[Power Raid]

Hey Power Raid, where do you get your opinions from? All that nonsense you just posted above, where does it come from? Who are you parroting?

Either way, for you to repeat that kind of anti-nationalist garbage on this forum the way you do is genuinely treacherous and you and your ilk would want to hope that Australians remain docile, apathetic and stupid. Because if they ever wake up to what is being done to their country, they won't stop with the politicians and news presenters.

do you disagree that certainty over the application of laws is a positive for investment? This same investment that we have benefited from in this nation that allows us to live the privileged life we do.....jobs, income, welfare etc

 

[Power Raid]

Hey Power Raid, where do you get your opinions from? All that nonsense you just posted above, where does it come from? Who are you parroting?

Either way, for you to repeat that kind of anti-nationalist garbage on this forum the way you do is genuinely treacherous and you and your ilk would want to hope that Australians remain docile, apathetic and stupid. Because if they ever wake up to what is being done to their country, they won't stop with the politicians and news presenters.

do you disagree that some nations have courts that can be bought?

 

[Maggie5]

no

Possibly yes, time will tell.

 

[Power Raid]

Hey Power Raid, where do you get your opinions from? All that nonsense you just posted above, where does it come from? Who are you parroting?

Either way, for you to repeat that kind of anti-nationalist garbage on this forum the way you do is genuinely treacherous and you and your ilk would want to hope that Australians remain docile, apathetic and stupid. Because if they ever wake up to what is being done to their country, they won't stop with the politicians and news presenters.

Or is it just the vibe you don't like and feel being negative is the only positive contribution you can make to this world?

 

[Power Raid]

Possibly yes, time will tell.

powerful governments and nations have better and easier ways to influence our politics. I dare say China and the US do it via trade and military might. much of this would be done behind close doors.

 

[Long Live HFC]

This is more about bringing international standards to developing nations. We already have these provisions in place within a well structured framework, so the TPP means very little change in Oz. What it does do, is bring and enforce this wonderful framework we already have to other nations.

i don't doubt that this can and does happen with FTAs, but i feel you're ignoring the rather glaring fact that the TPP is also about bringing the US' "wonderful framework" to us. simple examples of which have already been provided in this thread. the US obviously has more clout economically so the benefits of, say, increasing the ability to evergreen pharmaceuticals has a disproportionate benefit to them, rather than countries like Oz or its citizens. this is born out when looking at which countries are voting for or against certain parts of the agreement.

if all the clauses were perceived to be beneficial to australia (or others), then their representatives in negotiations wouldn't be 'voting' against. we might conclude that these clauses won't make it into the final agreement of course, but we won't really know for a while so claiming that everyone will benefit is a bit optimistic at this point. there are normally winners and losers in any economic agreement.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

do you disagree that certainty over the application of laws is a positive for investment? This same investment that we have benefited from in this nation that allows us to live the privileged life we do.....jobs, income, welfare etc

Wow. I don't know where to start with that. What are you, an honours student in neoliberal economics or something?

Tell me, if we are all so fortunate for the 'investment' into the country, why is every state in the nation in debt and/or deficit, our national debt and deficit rapidly risimg, personal debt at record levels (and rising), national assets being sold off, etc etc?

How blatant does what is really going on have to be before even the indoctrinated begin to see it?

And that is without even discussing what 'investment' is, which is simply the transfer of 1s and 0s from one 'account' to another. Only a brainwashed fool can think that this is in any way necessary for things to get done.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

do you disagree that some nations have courts that can be bought?

Haha, what, are you suggesting a transnational court would be less vulnerable to this?

Hahahahaahahahaa.

Look at this, people. This is the kind of 'logic' you are just supposed to go along with, like a good little serf.

People like you will pay for this treachery, 'Power Raid'.

 

[Power Raid]

Haha, what, are you suggesting a transnational court would be less vulnerable to this?

Hahahahaahahahaa.

Look at this, people. This is the kind of 'logic' you are just supposed to go along with, like a good little serf.

People like you will pay for this treachery, 'Power Raid'.

I would suggest that the first point of call would be going through the courts of the land and then the tribunal. History attest to this.

So if the high court does its job, as it has, then their is no change in Oz. For places like the Philippines etc, then there will be massive reforms and accountability.

you can get as excited as you want but that doesn't change reality.

 

[Power Raid]

Wow. I don't know where to start with that. What are you, an honours student in neoliberal economics or something?

Tell me, if we are all so fortunate for the 'investment' into the country, why is every state in the nation in debt and/or deficit, our national debt and deficit rapidly risimg, personal debt at record levels (and rising), national assets being sold off, etc etc?

How blatant does what is really going on have to be before even the indoctrinated begin to see it?

And that is without even discussing what 'investment' is, which is simply the transfer of 1s and 0s from one 'account' to another. Only a brainwashed fool can think that this is in any way necessary for things to get done.

your silliness comes to the forefront.

we are a privileged nation that has enjoyed foreign investment for over two centuries. that doesn't mean we are immune from poor government fiscal management.

trying to confuse the two is mischievous.

 

[Power Raid]

i don't doubt that this can and does happen with FTAs, but i feel you're ignoring the rather glaring fact that the TPP is also about bringing the US' "wonderful framework" to us. simple examples of which have already been provided in this thread. the US obviously has more clout economically so the benefits of, say, increasing the ability to evergreen pharmaceuticals has a disproportionate benefit to them, rather than countries like Oz or its citizens. this is born out when looking at which countries are voting for or against certain parts of the agreement.

if all the clauses were perceived to be beneficial to australia (or others), then their representatives in negotiations wouldn't be 'voting' against. we might conclude that these clauses won't make it into the final agreement of course, but we won't really know for a while so claiming that everyone will benefit is a bit optimistic at this point. there are normally winners and losers in any economic agreement.

we no doubt have the most to gain and the most to loose through FTA and globalisation.

The loss is a sunk cost if you accept the fact that other nationalities have the same rights and benefits as Australians. We also have the most to gain, which comes from the fact we have greater certainty operating in these nations and the fact their incomes will rise; meaning they will become better trading partners. That in turn equates to less global conflict which is clearly a major non financial benefit.

In regards to clauses, there will always be push and shove but over all it looks pretty common sense even in draft format.