UFC 183 - Anderson Silva v Nick Diaz

[Xtreme]

Sliva may have been considered one of the greats, but taking steroids is cheating and he should be judged accordingly, IMO he's destroyed his legacy.

PEDS in sport shouldn't happen regardless if it's afl, rugby league, rugby union, soccer, basketball, olympic level events, nfl, boxing, cycling, tennis, mma etc.

I know I would be foolish to think every sport is clean, but I live in hope it will be some day.

 

[phantom13]

That's fine, you believe what you want with your "innocent until proven guilty" mantra.

In an ideal world none of the fighters would use PED's and everyone would be on a level playing field. But, the reality is, is that there is a loophole there that fighters can (and do) exploit as the UFC can't monetarily afford to vigilantly test people when they're out of competition or in training camps.

You can believe what you want, but there is a myriad of information on google if you search "UFC PED's" on the estimated percentage of fighters using PED's in the UFC. PED's allow the fighters to fight more regularly and at a higher level which as a spectator I am content with.

I just want to see a fight, I don't really care about the integrity of the sport as I know that the majority of them are all guilty of doing the same things and giving themselves the same advantages. I have come to accept that professional MMA is not the perfectly fair and ethical sport that I might have once believed.

You can blindly cheer on your favourite fighters every time they fight but you have no right to be disappointed or disillusioned when they test positive in the future. The information is available for all and sundry and it is far from a big secret what the fighters get up to.

If it wasn't for Anderson I don't even know if I would like MMA. He has brought so much to the sport with his 16 fight win streak; his highlight reel knockouts; his Houdini performance against Sonnen; and the unwittingly humorous interviews that he attempts to conduct in English.

Okay mate. You can quote statistics all you want, lets say EVERY fighter in the UFC is on gear, then how stupid/irresponsible/reckless was Anderson in his program, even if that is true it opens a whole other myriad of issues with what Silva did, pick your problem, either way he is screwed.

Unfortunately for you we live in a world where you are innocent until proven guilty, its not my mantra, its not even "a" mantra, thems the rules that everyone HAS to abide by. Pissing dirty means you get tagged.

The bolded is one of the silliest things i have ever read on here by the way, as fans who buy the product and support our favourites (buying their sponsors gear, buying memorabilia etc) we have EVERY right to be upset when they cheat. Just cause you don't doesn't mean other can't.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

Okay mate. You can quote statistics all you want, lets say EVERY fighter in the UFC is on gear, then how stupid/irresponsible/reckless was Anderson in his program, even if that is true it opens a whole other myriad of issues with what Silva did, pick your problem, either way he is screwed.

Unfortunately for you we live in a world where you are innocent until proven guilty, its not my mantra, its not even "a" mantra, thems the rules that everyone HAS to abide by. Pissing dirty means you get tagged.

The bolded is one of the silliest things i have ever read on here by the way, as fans who buy the product and support our favourites (buying their sponsors gear, buying memorabilia etc) we have EVERY right to be upset when they cheat. Just cause you don't doesn't mean other can't.

and what happens to the up and coming fighters that can't afford the PED's. "sorry guys, not only are the top fighters better than you but they can afford the PED's giving them an unfair advantage. Deal with it...it's the sport"

 

[BradWCE]

Man, if only this fight happened a year ago. Maybe Anderson would have been able to use commission approved steroids and not had to use these ones that have always been banned.

 

[BradWCE]

Also, whats the punishment for failing a test for pot, $5,000 fine?

It'll be way more than that for Diaz. Last time they fined him 20 or 30 percent of his purse. He made $500,000 for this fight and with it being his 3rd time, it could be an even higher percentage of his purse than before.

Julio César Chávez Jr, a boxer, was fined $900,000 for testing positive for marijuana. However, I think it was later reduced substantially.

 

[StevenwellerHFC]

It'll be way more than that for Diaz. Last time they fined him 20 or 30 percent of his purse. He made $500,000 for this fight and with it being his 3rd time, it could be an even higher percentage of his purse than before.

Julio César Chávez Jr, a boxer, was fined $900,000 for testing positive for marijuana. However, I think it was later reduced substantially.

I see, thanks for that, seems like the fine is rather high for testing positive to marijuana, but they know the rules, seems pointless to take such risks when you're on such good money.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

Okay mate. You can quote statistics all you want, lets say EVERY fighter in the UFC is on gear, then how stupid/irresponsible/reckless was Anderson in his program, even if that is true it opens a whole other myriad of issues with what Silva did, pick your problem, either way he is screwed.

Yeah, I agree that he is incredibly stupid to have "over roided” considering what was at stake. He’s compromised his legacy in a big way and I cannot defend him if this has occurred purely through negligence and carelessness.

You were calling him a “drug cheat”, which he probably is, but I just want you to know, that I have no idea who your favourite fighters are and which ones you like to support but the chances are (80%), that they are also “drug cheats” and that you are unwittingly clapping them on as they perform their drug-fuelled pursuits.

The bolded is one of the silliest things i have ever read on here by the way, as fans who buy the product and support our favourites (buying their sponsors gear, buying memorabilia etc) we have EVERY right to be upset when they cheat. Just cause you don't doesn't mean other can't.

If anyone is stupid enough to think that the drug testing is an accurate indication of who is clean and who isn’t then they don’t deserve to feel indignant about being rorted out of their money. Surely your intuition tells you that if there are all these fighters constantly failing drug tests during this small window (pre-fight to post-fight) then there must be a hell of a lot more who are taking them during the larger-safer window (out of comp/ during training camps), as the ramifications of being caught during pre-fight/ post-fight are so consequential (win being turned to a no contest, losing a large percentage of your purse, tarnished legacy, etc.).

As I have said, it is widely known that the large majority of UFC fighters take PED’s, it is just part of the sport at present and if you don’t approve of that sort of behaviour then you shouldn’t be purchasing their products and supporting them.

and what happens to the up and coming fighters that can't afford the PED's. "sorry guys, not only are the top fighters better than you but they can afford the PED's giving them an unfair advantage. Deal with it...it's the sport"

They shouldn’t have even bothered becoming MMA fighters if they weren’t prepared to do that. Anyone with any faint idea of the industry knows what it encompasses (PED use). Fighting professional MMA is just like the male equivalent of doing pornography, anyway - it’s a last resort. You won’t find too many studious types who were excelling in their studies. The majority of them are just blokes that were rebellious and wayward at a young age and developed a knack for street fighting (Mark Hunt, Overeem, Gustafsson, etc.). pr0n might pay relatively good money but the trade-off is that your long-term future is compromised, just like MMA where many fighters will encounter neurological disorders (Liddell) later in life, as well as deformed faces (Wanderlei).

I find it hard to sympathise with them, this isn’t AFL where you would have a right to feel dirty if some other bloke who had been using PED’s got drafted and you didn't. Everyone would like to be an AFL player, you won’t find too many people that want to be a pro MMA fighter. If they’re game enough to run the risk of getting their face smashed in then it is fair to assume that they haven’t got many other options available to them in their life, and that potentially taking a beating from some roided up martial artist is probably a better outcome than some dubious other life that they could have led.

 

[the_interloper]

Okay mate. You can quote statistics all you want, lets say EVERY fighter in the UFC is on gear, then how stupid/irresponsible/reckless was Anderson in his program, even if that is true it opens a whole other myriad of issues with what Silva did, pick your problem, either way he is screwed.

Unfortunately for you we live in a world where you are innocent until proven guilty, its not my mantra, its not even "a" mantra, thems the rules that everyone HAS to abide by. Pissing dirty means you get tagged.

The bolded is one of the silliest things i have ever read on here by the way, as fans who buy the product and support our favourites (buying their sponsors gear, buying memorabilia etc) we have EVERY right to be upset when they cheat. Just cause you don't doesn't mean other can't.

To be honest I think you're very naive if you don't accept the majority of UFC fighters are on some sort of PEDs. Just because you don't piss hot doesn't mean you're not doing it. It's like how Lance Armstrong always had to be juicing: if you're dominating a sport which has many juiceheads, well you're probably on the juice yourself.

Maybe it unfairly casts a shadow over people like GSP, Jon Jones, Fedor etc but it's hard to believe they are clean when so many people who aren't as good as them have been proven to juice. Fedor is an interesting one for me, from what I've been reading in the last day a lot of people think he didn't juice. But he dominated the most drug infested MMA org for many years, it makes me wonder for sure.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

They shouldn’t have even bothered becoming MMA fighters if they weren’t prepared to do that. Anyone with any faint idea of the industry knows what it encompasses (PED use). Fighting professional MMA is just like the male equivalent of doing pornography, anyway - it’s a last resort. You won’t find too many studious types who were excelling in their studies. The majority of them are just blokes that were rebellious and wayward at a young age and developed a knack for street fighting (Mark Hunt, Overeem, Gustafsson, etc.). pr0n might pay relatively good money but the trade-off is that your long-term future is compromised, just like MMA where many fighters will encounter neurological disorders (Liddell) later in life, as well as deformed faces (Wanderlei).

I find it hard to sympathise with them, this isn’t AFL where you would have a right to feel dirty if some other bloke who had been using PED’s got drafted and you didn't. Everyone would like to be an AFL player, you won’t find too many people that want to be a pro MMA fighter. If they’re game enough to run the risk of getting their face smashed in then it is fair to assume that they haven’t got many other options available to them in their life, and that potentially taking a beating from some roided up martial artist is probably a better outcome than some dubious other life that they could have led.

I'm sorry but that is a big pile of s**t. A massive stereotype.

• Shane Carwin = mechanical engineer.
• Rich Franklin = Bachelor in Maths and Masters in English
• Mizugaki = mechanical engineer.
• Peggy Morgan (Ultimate fighter) = adjunct literature and composition professor
• Jake Butler (One FC) = Princeton Graduate Degree in economics
• Joe Lauzon = IT consultant
• Jeff Monson (M-1) = bachelor's and master's degree in psychology
• Terry Martin (KSW) = master's in psychology, but is now going for his doctorate
• Mirko Cro Cop was elected in Croatian Parliament before he won the Pride Grand Prix
  
• Tor Troeng = research in mathematics and mathematical statistics
• Rosi Sexton = mathematics degree from Cambridge. Then, she got a doctorate in theoretical computer science from Manchester University and now practices as an osteopath.

Fighters like GSP are highly intelligent but prefer competition. While there are a lot of fighters that come from rough upbringings there are a number that just love the sport. They know they can't do it forever so why not do something they enjoy, make a living off of it and then study afterwards.

 

[Jab]

I'm sorry but that is a big pile of s**t. A massive stereotype.

• Shane Carwin = mechanical engineer.
• Rich Franklin = Bachelor in Maths and Masters in English
• Mizugaki = mechanical engineer.
• Peggy Morgan (Ultimate fighter) = adjunct literature and composition professor
• Jake Butler (One FC) = Princeton Graduate Degree in economics
• Joe Lauzon = IT consultant
• Jeff Monson (M-1) = bachelor's and master's degree in psychology
• Terry Martin (KSW) = master's in psychology, but is now going for his doctorate
• Mirko Cro Cop was elected in Croatian Parliament before he won the Pride Grand Prix
  
• Tor Troeng = research in mathematics and mathematical statistics
• Rosi Sexton = mathematics degree from Cambridge. Then, she got a doctorate in theoretical computer science from Manchester University and now practices as an osteopath.

Fighters like GSP are highly intelligent but prefer competition. While there are a lot of fighters that come from rough upbringings there are a number that just love the sport. They know they can't do it forever so why not do something they enjoy, make a living off of it and then study afterwards.

You can add GSots to that list. He was doing well as an investment banker before he went full time in the UFC.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

You can add GSots to that list. He was doing well as an investment banker before he went full time in the UFC.

It's a ridiculous statement. Some people just love competing and want to take their fitness to the highest possible level. Some like running just for the sake of it. Others don't unless their is a reason behind it (fitness for football, mma, rugby etc). Not because they're dumb and can't achieve anything. Sorry martial artists you're all brain dead!!!

 

[Jab]

 

[the_interloper]

I'm sorry but that is a big pile of s**t. A massive stereotype.

• Shane Carwin = mechanical engineer.
• Rich Franklin = Bachelor in Maths and Masters in English
• Mizugaki = mechanical engineer.
• Peggy Morgan (Ultimate fighter) = adjunct literature and composition professor
• Jake Butler (One FC) = Princeton Graduate Degree in economics
• Joe Lauzon = IT consultant
• Jeff Monson (M-1) = bachelor's and master's degree in psychology
• Terry Martin (KSW) = master's in psychology, but is now going for his doctorate
• Mirko Cro Cop was elected in Croatian Parliament before he won the Pride Grand Prix
  
• Tor Troeng = research in mathematics and mathematical statistics
• Rosi Sexton = mathematics degree from Cambridge. Then, she got a doctorate in theoretical computer science from Manchester University and now practices as an osteopath.

Fighters like GSP are highly intelligent but prefer competition. While there are a lot of fighters that come from rough upbringings there are a number that just love the sport. They know they can't do it forever so why not do something they enjoy, make a living off of it and then study afterwards.

I'd imagine the level of education is higher in MMA than in boxing for example because a lot are wrestlers and they probably got scholarships to universities in a lot of cases. I think I read somewhere that the typical MMA fan is often white collar and quite affluent which is interesting.

And imagine being a fabricator or something and whinging about the drawings you're working off and you're waiting to meet with the engineer. All steamed up, you're ready to go nuts at the little dweeb and in walks Shane Carwin!

 

[Bucking Bronco]

I'm sorry but that is a big pile of s**t. A massive stereotype.

• Shane Carwin = mechanical engineer.
• Rich Franklin = Bachelor in Maths and Masters in English
• Mizugaki = mechanical engineer.
• Peggy Morgan (Ultimate fighter) = adjunct literature and composition professor
• Jake Butler (One FC) = Princeton Graduate Degree in economics
• Joe Lauzon = IT consultant
• Jeff Monson (M-1) = bachelor's and master's degree in psychology
• Terry Martin (KSW) = master's in psychology, but is now going for his doctorate
• Mirko Cro Cop was elected in Croatian Parliament before he won the Pride Grand Prix
  
• Tor Troeng = research in mathematics and mathematical statistics
• Rosi Sexton = mathematics degree from Cambridge. Then, she got a doctorate in theoretical computer science from Manchester University and now practices as an osteopath.

Fighters like GSP are highly intelligent but prefer competition. While there are a lot of fighters that come from rough upbringings there are a number that just love the sport. They know they can't do it forever so why not do something they enjoy, make a living off of it and then study afterwards.

Yeah, I said that there wouldn't be "too many studious types". Of course there would be some that have degrees, but that would account for like 2% of the pro MMA population. There are also many woman out there who are studying degrees while doing pr0n as a way to support themselves and pay for their tuition. I'm sure I could tee up a list with hundreds of names of pr0n stars who have degrees. It doesn't really mean anything, though. The reality is, is that the large majority of them are doing it because it has a higher ceiling of income than the other low income jobs that they would have had available to them, and they don't care about the risks.

Who in their right mind would prefer doing MMA - a job where you will develop cauliflower ear; a job where you will have your nose reduced to an ugly shape after it's been broken 5+ times; and a job where you have to have plastic surgery to remove all the scar tissue that you've accumulated on your face - over a job that earns you $75,000 a year in a nice, safe environment. Not to mention all the neurological disorders that these guys are potentially going to be facing later down the track. It's a job for the desperate, plain and simple.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

I'd imagine the level of education is higher in MMA than in boxing for example because a lot are wrestlers and they probably got scholarships to universities in a lot of cases. I think I read somewhere that the typical MMA fan is often white collar and quite affluent which is interesting.

And imagine being a fabricator or something and whinging about the drawings you're working off and you're waiting to meet with the engineer. All steamed up, you're ready to go nuts at the little dweeb and in walks Shane Carwin!

Don't worry I've seen Brock dispatch him. All I have to do is weather the barrage of punches then trap him in an anaconda choke. Take that you dumb MMA fighter!!!

 

[Higgins2Waite]

Yeah, I said that there wouldn't be "too many studious types". Of course there would be some that have degrees, but that would account for like 2% of the pro MMA population. There are also many woman out there who are studying degrees while doing pr0n as a way to support themselves and pay for their tuition. I'm sure I could tee up a list with hundreds of names of pr0n stars who have degrees. It doesn't really mean anything, though. The reality is, is that the large majority of them are doing it because it has a higher ceiling of income than the other low income jobs that they would have had available to them, and they don't care about the risks.

Who in their right mind would prefer doing MMA - a job where you will develop cauliflower ear; a job where you will have your nose reduced to an ugly shape after it's been broken 5+ times; and a job where you have to have plastic surgery to remove all the scar tissue that you've accumulated on your face - over a job that earns you $75,000 a year in a nice, safe environment. Not to mention all the neurological disorders that these guys are potentially going to be facing later down the track. It's a job for the desperate, plain and simple.

You can't comment because you have no idea what goes through their minds. Why do older types play amateur football for free? Despite risking soft tissue injuries, knee and shoulder damage and concussion. Sure theirs the social aspect but it's also stimulating. It scratches that competitive itch

 

[Bucking Bronco]

You can't comment because you have no idea what goes through their minds. Why do older types play amateur football for free? Despite risking soft tissue injuries, knee and shoulder damage and concussion. Sure theirs the social aspect but it's also stimulating. It scratches that competitive itch

Okay, a $100,000 job, then.

I know what's going through their minds, they're guys just like Hunto and Gustafsson who are in and out of jail and can't get brawling off their minds.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

Okay, a $100,000 job, then.

I know what's going through their minds, they're guys just like Hunto and Gustafsson who are in and out of jail and can't get brawling off their minds.

Some aren't driven by money.

 

[Nickos66]

Chael has a pretty interesting take on it all, for those interested.

 

[BradWCE]

 

[Nickos66]

^Heheh yeah I got sent this already today.

 

[BradWCE]

These things always stuff up spelling or something else. Only realised after I posted it that it says barrow.

Barb Honchak posted this:

Having a quick look on wikipedia (ugh), it looks like it's down from 23 states to 11. Nevada - a place where it's worse for a 20 year old to be found smoking pot than it is for them to be found having sex with an animal. When the law's like this it's not a surprise that the state's athletic commission comes down like they do on marijuana. With these sorts of laws being in place, it always makes me laugh when you here American's saying that things like the legalisation of marijuana or same-sex marriages will destroy blah blah blah.

Did they do a blood test on Diaz after the fight? I saw that Luke Thomas made a good point in saying that a urine test doesn't indicate him using or being high in competition (starts 12 hours before the fights or something along those lines). Diaz argued something similar last time he tested positive, that they couldn't prove he was high during the 'in competition' phase.

 

[Jab]

These things always stuff up spelling or something else. Only realised after I posted it that it says barrow.

That sign give you no hespect.

 

[bkozican]

The reality is, is that the large majority of them are doing it because it has a higher ceiling of income than the other low income jobs that they would have had available to them, and they don't care about the risks.

Could say the same about half the AFL...

Who in their right mind would prefer doing MMA - a job where you will develop cauliflower ear; a job where you will have your nose reduced to an ugly shape after it's been broken 5+ times; and a job where you have to have plastic surgery to remove all the scar tissue that you've accumulated on your face - over a job that earns you $75,000 a year in a nice, safe environment. Not to mention all the neurological disorders that these guys are potentially going to be facing later down the track. It's a job for the desperate, plain and simple.

Could say the same about the AFL. Who in their right mind would play AFL - a job where you develop joint injuries, possible brain damage, plastic surgery to fix faces (James Hird), reconstructed knees, shoulders, ankles etc - over a job that earns you 75,000 a year in a safe environment.

The people that have a hunger for competition. Whether that is kicking a football, shooting a basketball, throwing a left hook or hitting a tennis ball. If that is what they love to do, Who are you to judge them. The majority of good mma artists come out of South America, The same way as good boxers come out of Mexico and South America...Why, They fight to put food on the table. Not everybody in the world is born into a good education and fed a silver spoon.