Research Unknown best and fairest players

[royals1922]

Looking through the records of the AFL clubs a lot of the Victorian clubs do not record some of their earlier best and fairest players, usually pre World War 2.

I'm of the view looking at the old papers that the trophies were given out but have been inadequately recorded.

I'm happy to say I've had some success.

Fitzroy 1943- apparently unrecorded, the Argus of 14 December 1943 record Fred Hughson as the best player .

Also interestingly the AFL Record suggests that H "Lal" McLellan won the Fitzroy best and Fairest in 1912 and 1913 but the Argus of 14 November 1938 suggests that Lal won the award in 1913, 1914 and 1915. For 1915, the AFL record records that George Holden won the best and fairest and the 1914 Best and Fairest is recorded as having been won by Jack Cooper.

Collingwood are interesting as they record only the results of the Copeland trophy which commenced in 1927 but the Argus reports that Collingwood had a preexisting award for the best and most consistent player called the Austral Trophy which was won by Ernie Wilson in 1924 and Syd Coventry in 1925. This can be located in the Argus of 15 October 1925.

With NM, the records are a little patchy early on but the Age of 18 December 1930 records that the trophy for the most consistent player was given to Johnny Gregory but also that Johnny Lewis was given a trophy as captain and coach.

 

[RogersResults]

Looking through the records of the AFL clubs a lot of the Victorian clubs do not record some of their earlier best and fairest players, usually pre World War 2.

I'm of the view looking at the old papers that the trophies were given out but have been inadequately recorded.

I'm happy to say I've had some success.

Fitzroy 1943- apparently unrecorded, the Argus of 14 December 1943 record Fred Hughson as the best player .

Also interestingly the AFL Record suggests that H "Lal" McLellan won the Fitzroy best and Fairest in 1912 and 1913 but the Argus of 14 November 1938 suggests that Lal won the award in 1913, 1914 and 1915. For 1915, the AFL record records that George Holden won the best and fairest and the 1914 Best and Fairest is recorded as having been won by Jack Cooper.

Collingwood are interesting as they record only the results of the Copeland trophy which commenced in 1927 but the Argus reports that Collingwood had a preexisting award for the best and most consistent player called the Austral Trophy which was won by Ernie Wilson in 1924 and Syd Coventry in 1925. This can be located in the Argus of 15 October 1925.

With NM, the records are a little patchy early on but the Age of 18 December 1930 records that the trophy for the most consistent player was given to Johnny Gregory but also that Johnny Lewis was given a trophy as captain and coach.

The original 'fairest and best' or 'best and fairest' award made on a regular basis was the Margarey Medal awarded in South Australia (from 1898) to the 'Fairest and Most Brilliant" player of the season on umpires' votes. The award was instituted to encourage fair play beyond providing punishments and suspensions as a means of limiting actions regarded as being not in the 'spirit of the game'.

As such the concept of an award with 'fairest' as a criteria even by the time it made its way to the VFL in the form of the Brownlow Medal, had the association of being an umpires award and club awards to players took time to officially conform with the title 'best and fairest' or 'fairest and best'. As such it is not always clear in past times which player at a club received what would be the equivalent of a current 'best and fairest', as a variety of terms and designations were used for awards.

Club player awards were also often sponsored and came and went with the sponsors along with the criteria also changing. Then there were instances where I believe as in the case of Collingwood, their 'best and fairest' award was suspended 1943-45 on account of wartime conditions.

Although single newspaper reports are often nor sufficient to establish the fact of a matter, they can be a good starting point in establishing new information. Club historians may be interested in some of your findings in filling in the gaps.

 

[australianfootball]

I've just updated the AFL clubs' Honour boards on my site, trying to fill in some of the early detail the AFL Record Season Guide doesn't have, but there are still many gaps.

Your research on the B&F sounds promising, and I for one would be happy to update the records based on your findings.

http://australianfootball.com/clubs/honour_board/North+Melbourne/13

I'm still working on SANFL and WAFL clubs but should be finalized soon.

 

[Supermercado]

The only MFC one 'off the grid' I've been able to get so far (and admittedly I've been working off Footy Records almost exclusively and haven't delved too far into the newspapers of the day) is Percy Beames as B&F in 1934 (demonwiki.org/best+and+fairest) so if anybody finds any other MFC ones pre-1935 I'd love to hear them.

 

[royals1922]

Can this thread be transferred to the Football History area.

 

[My North]

so what the latest info?

 

[stemline]

Hawthorn unknown b&fs:
1926
1931

Any info greatly appreciated!

 

[RogersResults]

Hawthorn unknown b&fs:
1926
1931

Any info greatly appreciated!

Sometimes sporting clubs send a message to playing lists by not naming anyone as "best" for the season and from time to time awards are spread amongst the playing group without singling any individual as "best". The official Hawthorn historian may know if the 'best and fairest' records are missing for those years or whether the fairly dismal performance of the team in those years didn't prompt the committee to make an award.

 

[royals1922]

Sometimes sporting clubs send a message to playing lists by not naming anyone as "best" for the season and from time to time awards are spread amongst the playing group without singling any individual as "best". The official Hawthorn historian may know if the 'best and fairest' records are missing for those years or whether the fairly dismal performance of the team in those years didn't prompt the committee to make an award.

I checked the Hawthorn dates a couple of days ago.

There are a number of problems:

1. You have to find the date of the AGM ( the awards were usually given at the AGM);
2. Not all newspapers report each club's AGM; and
3. Even if they report the AGM, the newspapers may only report the office holders and not who got the awards.

With the 1931 AGM I found the date of the AGM as about 3 December 1931 (from recollection) did not have a report of the AGM. The Age did have a report but reported only office holders.

 

[stemline]

I've spoken at length with the HFC historian (Peter Haby), he has spent many hours trying to find the 2 missing B&Fs. He's inclined to believe they weren't awarded, simply due to the fact he hasn't been able to find the info anywhere - they certainly weren't announced in the Annual Reports, whereas all the other years were.

 

[RogersResults]

I checked the Hawthorn dates a couple of days ago.

There are a number of problems:

1. You have to find the date of the AGM ( the awards were usually given at the AGM);
2. Not all newspapers report each club's AGM; and
3. Even if they report the AGM, the newspapers may only report the office holders and not who got the awards.

With the 1931 AGM I found the date of the AGM as about 3 December 1931 (from recollection) did not have a report of the AGM. The Age did have a report but reported only office holders.

Do you know of or had any contact with Peter Haby, the Hawthorn historian and curator of the Hawks museum? I would imagine that he would have investigated the missing 'best and fairests'.

 

[stemline]

Timing!

 

[royals1922]

I've learnt not to rely wholely on annual reports - it's as much the reports of the meetings, that I look at.

 

[RogersResults]

I've learnt not to rely wholely on annual reports - it's as much the reports of the meetings, that I look at.

True. Things often come up at meetings that are not in the printed annual report or necessarily in the minutes of the AGM. When in the 1930s St Kilda FC was trying to extricate itself from the control by the cricket club at the Junction Oval and look for a venue where they could be ground manager, punches were thrown at the AGM. Reported in the press but would probably not be in the printed annual report!

 

[RogersResults]

Timing!

Indeed!

Maybe someone could go through all the published match reports of the Hawthorn matches in 1926 and 1931 and from reporters' 'best players' award votes and come up with a consensus of the papers 'best' Hawthorn player of those years and then the club could retrospectively recognise them?

 

[stemline]

Indeed!

Maybe someone could go through all the published match reports of the Hawthorn matches in 1926 and 1931 and from reporters' 'best players' award votes and come up with a consensus of the papers 'best' Hawthorn player of those years and then the club could retrospectively recognise them?

I've already done that. Most likely 1926 would go to Frank Murphy and 1931 would either hand Ern Utting his 3rd B&F, or Bert Mills his 4th!

However the club has contacted the families of those players and none were aware of those players winning in those years.

 

[royals1922]

I've already done that. Most likely 1926 would go to Frank Murphy and 1931 would either hand Ern Utting his 3rd B&F, or Bert Mills his 4th!

However the club has contacted the families of those players and none were aware of those players winning in those years.

In many cases the family would not even know ( as it was almost 80 years ago).

It would involve some work because as stated earlier you need to find the date of the AGM and then go to the state Library and look through every newspaper, journal or magazine( and some of them only lasted 3- 4 years) as well as local newspapers for the day or time after the AGM.

 

[RogersResults]

I've already done that. Most likely 1926 would go to Frank Murphy and 1931 would either hand Ern Utting his 3rd B&F, or Bert Mills his 4th!

However the club has contacted the families of those players and none were aware of those players winning in those years.

The club should consider your work to complete the record. There are many precedents for future generations correcting errors and omissions of the past. There is no reason why the club couldn't accept the opinions of the sports writers and retrospectively recognise the players that you have suggested .

It will probably never been known whether the gaps in the 'best and fairest' awards are the result of club records being lost (or not kept) or the awards not being made in those seasons for whatever reason.

 

[rbartlett]

A common misconception with Best and Fairest history is that there is a continuous lineage of winners.
Richmond is an example of many gaps (and inconsistencies)

 

[RogersResults]

The was some resistance in the past to the concept of "best" awards.
________________________________________________________________________________________

THE GAME'S DECLINE

Too Much Individualism

In conversation during the week with an old player and student of the game, we were in agreement about the decline in concerted play this season, even if not unanimous, of the reason thereof.

In the middle of the discussion my friend said: "To what do you attribute the falling off?"

"Well," I replied, "it is perhaps difficult to say, as these lapses occur periodically."

"My reason," he replied, and it is backed up by common sense, "is that the in discriminate custom of giving prizes to the best and fairest players in the various teams is the real cause of the trouble. It Is all right," he continued, "so far as the Brownlow Medal of the League is concerned, but when the clubs and other out side bodies enter into the scheme the result has been logically to produce the selfish player, who studies self all the time, with club interests a secondary consideration. Think it over," he said, "and let me know your opinion."

I certainly have given the matter great thought, and upon reflection, I agree entirely with the views expounded by my friend. I know that certain clubs-not in the four, it may rather unnecessarily be added-that are complaining bitterly of the "flash" and selfish play of several of their leading players, and it vividly occurred to me that my old friend had hit the nail squarely on the head.

There is no disputing that the system now in vogue breeds selfishness, and there is no greater football curse or bar to progress than the selfish player, whose one Idea is to be handling the ball all the time. Anything, so long as he is in the limelight, even if not in position. He expects and demands all the other members of the side to play to him, whether in position or otherwise, and this selfishness logically breeds jealousy and ill-will - the worst ingredients against teamwork, as there must be good fellowship for a side to give of its best.

"We are only in the team." said one player to me, "for a certain player's glorification; just puppets who are expected to jump when the string is pulled, or passed over in selection. All these prizes are given with the best intentions, though the road to Hell is popularly supposed to be paved with them, and the result has been an increase of selfishness that has been alarming. The man with the ball catches the eye, whether he has earned it or not, and that type of player is no good to a side. He would not last long in Collingwood, whose fetish is teamwork, first, last, and all the time.

Jack Worrall. The Australasian Saturday 18 September 1937 p29.
________________________________________________________________________________________

When the South Australian Football Association introduced the Magarey Medal in 1898 for the "fairest and most brilliant player", the emphasis was on "fairest" with the intention that the award might be an incentive to players to play more fairly and that the 'dirty practices' of intentional maiming behind play would decrease. When Worrall wrote the above he was 76 and only 8 weeks away from death. He was certainly of another era, an era where the organizers and administrators of sport were very much part of the traditional English public (exclusive, fee for tuition) school sporting culture of 'fair play' and playing for the sake of the game with the team always more important than the individual. That the VFL didn't introduce its "fairest and best" award until 1924 and after the death of Charles Brownlow perhaps indicates some of the resistance to such awards. It is quite likely that Brownlow himself would have opposed it. It would interesting to chart how "best" gradually supplanted "fairest" in the naming of these awards.

 

[the croucher]

Thought I'd raise a matter I've been mulling over for some years now. The discussion relates to which players (if any at all) should be listed as club champions for various senior clubs over their history.
Best & Fairest, fairest & most brilliant, etc., as a title doesn't seem to be widely used at club level
until the 1930s.

Rather than accepting at face value the lists published by clubs in the AFL and other leagues, I'm trying to find sources which confirm the names that are shown for particular seasons.

Roy Cazaly is listed in many books etc and on websites as being South Melbourne's Best & Fairest in 1926 but as you can see from this report he was in fact winner of the "most consistent" award.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3837877
Personally I rate that as being club champion in the absence of any individual award of similar nature so have no issue with Cazaly being listed as winner that year.

Here is a draft copy of pages I'm developing for public access on my website:
http://sportandhistory.com/footballawards/club/vfl1925_29.html

Perhaps we could use this thread to develop a list of titles which most if not all agree would be suitable to be included under the umbrella heading CLUB CHAMPION.
e.g. Best allround, best player, most consistent....

...but not most improved, best first year, best at training !!

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Thought I'd raise a matter I've been mulling over for some years now. The discussion relates to which players (if any at all) should be listed as club champions for various senior clubs over their history.
Best & Fairest, fairest & most brilliant, etc., as a title doesn't seem to be widely used at club level
until the 1930s.

Rather than accepting at face value the lists published by clubs in the AFL and other leagues, I'm trying to find sources which confirm the names that are shown for particular seasons.

Hawthorn had a B&F in 1929 - won by Ern Utting http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4054834

 

[the croucher]

Hawthorn had a B&F in 1929 - won by Ern Utting http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4054834

Thanks for that find. I'll update my site page by tomorrow. Your clue enabled me to check The Age on Google News Archive and the Hawthorn meeting report in that paper is a bit easier to read - as well as Utting being B&F it mentions that W Carey was awarded the most consistent trophy so I'll add his name as well. Here is The Age report:
http://news.google.com.au/newspapers?id=PB8UAAAAIBAJ&sjid=y5YDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2924,3675806

 

[the croucher]

Looking through the records of the AFL clubs a lot of the Victorian clubs do not record some of their earlier best and fairest players, usually pre World War 2.

I'm of the view looking at the old papers that the trophies were given out but have been inadequately recorded.

I'm happy to say I've had some success.

Fitzroy 1943- apparently unrecorded, the Argus of 14 December 1943 record Fred Hughson as the best player .

Also interestingly the AFL Record suggests that H "Lal" McLellan won the Fitzroy best and Fairest in 1912 and 1913 but the Argus of 14 November 1938 suggests that Lal won the award in 1913, 1914 and 1915. For 1915, the AFL record records that George Holden won the best and fairest and the 1914 Best and Fairest is recorded as having been won by Jack Cooper.

Collingwood are interesting as they record only the results of the Copeland trophy which commenced in 1927 but the Argus reports that Collingwood had a preexisting award for the best and most consistent player called the Austral Trophy which was won by Ernie Wilson in 1924 and Syd Coventry in 1925. This can be located in the Argus of 15 October 1925.

With NM, the records are a little patchy early on but the Age of 18 December 1930 records that the trophy for the most consistent player was given to Johnny Gregory but also that Johnny Lewis was given a trophy as captain and coach.

Was away from the board for a few months, so am sorry to have missed the initial discussions on a subject of particular interest to me.

Personally, I don't think the Austral Trophy should be counted as a club award as it seems to me to be a "popular vote by public" one sponsored by a business. Appreciated by the club and players no doubt, but not one to show in a list of "club champion winners." I think Syd Coventry should be shown as Collingwood's winner in 1924 as he was named "most consistent" trophy winner at the club's annual meeting in March 1925:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2064549

I agree that J Gregory should be listed as winner of North Melbourne's "club champion" for 1930
The Age 18 December that year (no online link to article but use this to get to front page)
http://news.google.com.au/newspapers?id=Y61hAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sZYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6989,4001007

and then scroll to page 4 column 6

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

...Your clue enabled me to check The Age on Google News Archive and the Hawthorn meeting report in that paper is a bit easier to read...

Yes - some of the Trove stuff is too blurry to be really useful so a second source is useful here

As to Hawthorn, the official club record for "B&F" has 1925 Fred Finch and 1927 Ern Utting while your research shows
1925 no B & F noted
F Finch (best all-round)
S McKenzie (most consistent)

1927 no B & F noted
E Poole (best all-round)
E Utting (most consistent)

Recognition seems inconsistent between 1925 and 1927
Looks like Ted Pool has been ripped off here... (my guess being best all-round > most consistent)