Unpopular Basketball Opinions

[Damon_3388]

Two guys from that 2000s era that genuinely would have been Hall of Famers if not for injury were Elton Brand and Gilbert Arenas.

Consider Brand's numbers across his first 8 seasons:

606 games, 38.3 mpg, 20.3 ppg (.505 FG%), 10.2 rpg, 2.7 apg, 0.9 spg, 2.1 bpg, 22.7 PER

Was as consistent and durable as any player in the league (was a lot like Karl Malone in a way), and during my high school years (2001-2005), only Shaq, Garnett, Duncan and Dirk were better in terms of bigs IMO (Yao and C-Webb were too injury prone, Ben Wallace had no offense). Tore his Achilles early in the 2007-08 season, and has never being the same player since.

Arenas' three All-Star seasons (2004-05, 2005-06, 2006-07) were pretty ridiculous too:

234 games, 41.0 mpg, 27.7 ppg (.432 FG%, .361 3PT%), 4.3 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.3 bpg, 23.0 PER

All went to s**t when he did his knee late in the 2006-07 season. Played just 47 games total in the 2007-08, 2008-09 and 2009-10 seasons, and just 134 games in total after that April 2007 injury. Still managed to sign a $111 million/6 year contract in July 2008, which he's still getting paid from to this day.

Another potential superstar from my high school days who bizarrely seemed to stop giving a s**t after a while was Andrei Kirilenko. Got his big payday at the end of the 2005 season, which may have contributed to it. Was a bit injury prone, but was a genuine top 15 player in the league between 2003-2005. Put up some ridiculous stat lines during that period. One of the more uniquely multi-skiled players you'll see at his best. Really could do it all. His numbers between 2003-04 and 2005-06:

188 games, 36.4 mpg, 15.8 ppg (.459 FG%, .322 3PT%), 7.6 rpg, 3.6 apg, 1.7 spg, 3.0 bpg, 22.2 PER

 

[jod23]

Not sure where to put this but me and a couple of mates were debating the other day who is the best non American player of all time. We decided to not include Tim Duncan cos he is pretty much American. I mean they are called the US Virgin Islands??

Anyways we had it Olajuwon in first and then Dirk in second before a raft of players we couldnt decide on in our top 5 including Divac, Petrovic, Kukoc, Gasol brothers, Ginobili, Parker, Nash, Yao, Mutombo, Noah, Deng, Sabonis, Smits, Stojakovic... tough to narrow it down to 5 players.

We didnt include Ewing either who was born in Jamaica but is pretty much American.

 

[moistie]

He wasnt good enough to get his team over the line. He is the star, of course the blame falls on him.

Like Jordan was in the 80s when he wasn't good enough to carry his team to the finals (unlike LeBron)? So what changed? Horace Grant, Denis Rodman and Scottie Pippen.

 

[nahnah]

Right now id have Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Kobe, Oscar then LeBron in maybe 10th. He has plenty of time to move up the list though. Needs more rings. His rings will always be a little tainted though as he has made two super teams to get them.

Lol so Lebron can't play on a super team because 'he made it' but MJ can because technically he didn't make it? Whaaat a super team is a super team.... What would MJ have done if he was at the cavs in 09??

The only good thing about lebrons decision to go to Miami was it began the events which lead to Kyrie and Love going to cleveland lol

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Not sure where to put this but me and a couple of mates were debating the other day who is the best non American player of all time. We decided to not include Tim Duncan cos he is pretty much American. I mean they are called the US Virgin Islands??

Anyways we had it Olajuwon in first and then Dirk in second before a raft of players we couldnt decide on in our top 5 including Divac, Petrovic, Kukoc, Gasol brothers, Ginobili, Parker, Nash, Yao, Mutombo, Noah, Deng, Sabonis, Smits, Stojakovic... tough to narrow it down to 5 players.

We didnt include Ewing either who was born in Jamaica but is pretty much American.

I agree with your top two.
I wouldn't include Noah, because he was born in the US, and has also lived there since the age of 13.
I would also suggest that Nash shouldn't really be considered as international - given that Canada has its own NBA team (and had 2 for a while). If he is included, then I would put him as clear number 3... however you feel about his career, he is still a 2-time MVP... no-one else below him in that group would ever have even been in MVP discussions.
Oscar Schmidt has to be in the discussion somewhere when talking about best non-american player - and should be ranked above a number of those guys.

After your top 2 - I would have the next group with Pau, Manu, Parker and Stojakovic... and maybe Mutombo.
Marc Gasol will likely join that group very soon... and Drazen's career can only be judged as a what-if... which probably applies, though differently, to Sabonis.
I would then have Bogut above a lot of those other names.

 

[fidstar]

I agree with your top two.
I wouldn't include Noah, because he was born in the US, and has also lived there since the age of 13.
I would also suggest that Nash shouldn't really be considered as international - given that Canada has its own NBA team (and had 2 for a while). If he is included, then I would put him as clear number 3... however you feel about his career, he is still a 2-time MVP... no-one else below him in that group would ever have even been in MVP discussions.
Oscar Schmidt has to be in the discussion somewhere when talking about best non-american player - and should be ranked above a number of those guys.

After your top 2 - I would have the next group with Pau, Manu, Parker and Stojakovic... and maybe Mutombo.
Marc Gasol will likely join that group very soon... and Drazen's career can only be judged as a what-if... which probably applies, though differently, to Sabonis.
I would then have Bogut above a lot of those other names.

I watch the GSW mainly because of Bogut, but I wouldn't have him above many (maybe only Deng) of those other names.

Top 5 for me - Olajuwon, Dirk, Nash, Sabonis (even though he didn't play at his peak in the NBA) and Mutombo.

 

[jod23]

No love for Divac boys? I have Divac and Sabonis pretty neck and neck. Cant split them Divac played more of his best years in the NBA whereas Sabonis only came into the NBA past his prime probably and was still very, very good.

Doesnt Noah play international basketball for France though, I think that would qualify him as foreign. Canada is a different country so Nash applies and then probably lands third but Parker has 4 more rings than him.

Kukoc is under rated.

Id have my top 5 as Olajuwon, Dirk, probably Nash... then I get stuck again. Good shout out with Schmidt, but he was never tested in the NBA.

 

[jod23]

Like Jordan was in the 80s when he wasn't good enough to carry his team to the finals (unlike LeBron)? So what changed? Horace Grant, Denis Rodman and Scottie Pippen.

Good luck to LeBron and his Cavs getting by Bird's Celtics or the Bad Boy Pistons. Everybody needs help. Jordan didnt have it until Pippen and Grant arrived.

Not sure what your point is?

 

[jod23]

Lol so Lebron can't play on a super team because 'he made it' but MJ can because technically he didn't make it? Whaaat a super team is a super team.... What would MJ have done if he was at the cavs in 09??

The only good thing about lebrons decision to go to Miami was it began the events which lead to Kyrie and Love going to cleveland lol

Wait what super team did Jordan play on?

LeBron left his hometown club and blatantly put together a super team to win championships. Jordan never did that.

 

[PP34]

jod23 Can you really consider Olajuwon an international player? He did play for the USA.....

Also I'd probably take Nash over Dirk.

 

[jod23]

jod23 Can you really consider Olajuwon an international player? He did play for the USA.....

Also I'd probably take Nash over Dirk.

No I consider Olajuwon an international player. He was born in Nigeria and only came to the US when he was around 19-20. Definitely Nigerian.

You're also completely insane to take Nash over Dirk. Dirk is clearly the better player.

 

[PP34]

No I consider Olajuwon an international player. He was born in Nigeria and only came to the US when he was around 19-20. Definitely Nigerian.

You're also completely insane to take Nash over Dirk. Dirk is clearly the better player.

No I'm not.

The Dirk overrating since he won a title is ridiculous. Nash is a two time MVP winner, lead some of the all time great offences and copped some incredibly bad luck which cost him a shot at a ring.

Dirk is part of two major, famous chokes. The 2006 Finals and then the following year where the Warriors ran allover them. Many people seem to ignore Dirk's entire career, preferring to look at 2011 and even then that was much more than a Dirk carrying the team performance. Chandler was great defensively, and every other guy played their role to perfection.

 

[jod23]

No I'm not.

The Dirk overrating since he won a title is ridiculous. Nash is a two time MVP winner, lead some of the all time great offences and copped some incredibly bad luck which cost him a shot at a ring.

Dirk is part of two major, famous chokes. The 2006 Finals and then the following year where the Warriors ran allover them. Many people seem to ignore Dirk's entire career, preferring to look at 2011 and even then that was much more than a Dirk carrying the team performance. Chandler was great defensively, and every other guy played their role to perfection.

Couldnt disagree more. Dirk has won a championship and has an MVP of his own. Not sure Nash deserved his first MVP, nevermind his second.

But skill set wise, ability and talent. Dirk shits on Nash.

 

[PP34]

Couldnt disagree more. Dirk has won a championship and has an MVP of his own. Not sure Nash deserved his first MVP, nevermind his second.

But skill set wise, ability and talent. Dirk shits on Nash.

Care to explain how? Nash rivals Magic Johnson in terms of vision. Both are two of the greatest shooters of all time, and I'm pretty certain Nash's shooting stats are superior to Dirk's.

You're making it sound like Nash is a scrub.

 

[jod23]

Care to explain how? Nash rivals Magic Johnson in terms of vision. Both are two of the greatest shooters of all time, and I'm pretty certain Nash's shooting stats are superior to Dirk's.

You're making it sound like Nash is a scrub.

Nash is no scrub. Im on the bandwagon of never understanding how Nash won 1 MVP, nevermind 2 though. Ive never understood it. Nobody can ever tell me that Nash at any point in his career was the best player in the league, nevermind a stretch of 2 years where he was voted the best player in the NBA. He was good, but never that good.

Nash is a great shooter but not a volume scorer, you cant rely on him to win you games. Sure he has great court vision but he is a PG. He cant rebound like Dirk but Dirk is 7 feet tall. Dirk however shoots like a guard. Has insane range and %'s from FG, 3PT and FT line.

He has everything you need in a player, a true franchise player who you can build around. Ive always believed that if you are to be a PG franchise player. You need to be a scorer. If you want to build you team around a PG as your franchise player, he has to be able to score and win you games.

The only exception to that ever, happens to be the GOAT of PG's in Magic Johnson, who still had a very respectable PPG average.

Other great passing PG's like Nash, M.Jackson, Stockton etc couldnt score. Even today you see it with CP3. Probably the best PG in the league, but he isnt a volume scorer so the Clippers get nowhere.

I always find that your best player has to be a scorer. You have to be able to give him the ball in a situation, close in games and he can find a bucket. Kobe, LeBron, Rose, Melo, Harden, Curry, Duncan etc...

PG's have a tough time winning titles. I can only think of two teams who won titles where the PG was the best player they had. That was Magic and the Lakers and Zeke and the Pistons. Even Cousy and West had Russell and Wilt etc (If you wanna count West who was more a combo guard)

All the other championship teams have dominant bigmen outside of Jordan, who is just the GOAT so won by default.

 

[moistie]

Good luck to LeBron and his Cavs getting by Bird's Celtics or the Bad Boy Pistons. Everybody needs help. Jordan didnt have it until Pippen and Grant arrived.

Not sure what your point is?

You dismissed LeBron for dragging his no-name Cavaliers to the Finals and losing as being not good enough. So why wasn't Jordan good enough to drag his team over the Celtics or Pistons on his own? After all, he didn't even make the finals until he got a supporting cast.

 

[jod23]

You dismissed LeBron for dragging his no-name Cavaliers to the Finals and losing as being not good enough. So why wasn't Jordan good enough to drag his team over the Celtics or Pistons on his own? After all, he didn't even make the finals until he got a supporting cast.

Because LeBron dragged his Cavs through a talentless East. He did have a supporting cast though. Many people think it was all a one man show. He had help. Ilgauskas, Varajao, Snow, Hughes and Drew Gooden.

Jordan's Bulls... Oakley, Paxson and some guys named Sellars, Corzine, Banks and Cureton.

Those blokes only had to beat the Celtics, Pistons, Lakers of the 80's. Yeah, nah.

 

[moistie]

Because LeBron dragged his Cavs through a talentless East. He did have a supporting cast though. Many people think it was all a one man show. He had help. Ilgauskas, Varajao, Snow, Hughes and Drew Gooden.

Jordan's Bulls... Oakley, Paxson and some guys named Sellars, Corzine, Banks and Cureton.

Those blokes only had to beat the Celtics, Pistons, Lakers of the 80's. Yeah, nah.

I don't remember the Lakers playing in the East.

Point remains, LeBron got his team to the Finals on his own, even if it was in the depleted East. You can't say he wasn't good enough without admitting the same things about Jordan.

 

[jod23]

I don't remember the Lakers playing in the East.

Point remains, LeBron got his team to the Finals on his own, even if it was in the depleted East. You can't say he wasn't good enough without admitting the same things about Jordan.

Yeah well I meant if he got by the Celts or Pistons he would have ran into the Lakers.

LeBron didnt get his team to the Finals on his own. It wasnt 5 v 1 on the court. He had teammates. I mentioned Big Z, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Eric Snow.

What did I say about LeBron being not good enough? Lebron is shooting 2 for 5 in NBA Finals. Jordan shot 6 for 6. That's just facts bro.

Anyways im not gonna argue anymore about it because it's a stupid argument. LeBron isnt even in the conversation with Jordan.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Snow, Hughes and Drew Gooden.

 

[nahnah]

Wait what super team did Jordan play on?

LeBron left his hometown club and blatantly put together a super team to win championships. Jordan never did that.

Maybe the one that won 72 games lol jordan didn't have too coz his team put good players around him, cavs were never going to be able to unless they drafted a big time player...once again what would have happened if MJ was in Lebron shoes at the cavs in 09??

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Pretty sure Jordan joined a super team in 95. What kind of Alpha Dog jumps onto a 55 win team?

 

[Moo]

Jordan's a better baseball player than LBJ

 

[jod23]

Maybe the one that won 72 games lol jordan didn't have too coz his team put good players around him, cavs were never going to be able to unless they drafted a big time player...once again what would have happened if MJ was in Lebron shoes at the cavs in 09??

That was a super team because of Jordan. He didnt create it. He was drafted to it.

As for what happens in 07 do you mean? When the Cavs went to the finals and got swept. I dont know the Cavs probably win because Jordan was miles better than LeBron and it would be the first time in history that Jordan had a decent bigman to play off in Ilgauskas.

 

[PP34]

Yawn