Unpopular Port Adelaide opinion you may have

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jonasshirtfront

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Sep 17, 2013
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Whilst I agree with this, opposition teams seem to target Boak much more than they do Robbie Gray.
I'd say that seems to be because tagging Gray is a waste, he just dances around the tagger when he gets the ball. Whereas it seems to actually curb Boak's influence, at least until he runs the tagger off his legs.
 
We are not good enough with this team and game plan so we have 3 choices
1. A substantial change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and minimal personnel change or
2. A minimal change to the game plan and fitness philosophy but a substantial personnel change or
3. A decent level of change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and decent level of personal change
 
We are not good enough with this team and game plan so we have 3 choices
1. A substantial change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and minimal personnel change or
2. A minimal change to the game plan and fitness philosophy but a substantial personnel change or
3. A decent level of change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and decent level of personal change
Lock in 1, please.
 

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CrystalFissure

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I really like Kane Mitchell and think he brings an intensity to the club. He runs hard. Just hasn't had the best luck. Plus he's incredibly likable if you've seen any videos of him.

Also, White is underrated and I feel like we've missed him this season for those four games.
 
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scoobydid

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We are not good enough with this team and game plan so we have 3 choices
1. A substantial change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and minimal personnel change or
2. A minimal change to the game plan and fitness philosophy but a substantial personnel change or
3. A decent level of change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and decent level of personal change
Thats a great analogy on business models. Price Quality and Time, pick 2 and the 3rd suffers. I'd like to think we have all covered as a base but all need tweaking to succeed to the next level. Plan is sound in the main, as is personell and fitness. We've got to add game day adaption and old fashioned hardness/grunt/never give up for at least 3 quarters to take us to where we belong. Good call REH.
 
I'd take a one club rebrand with one logo and no named moniker, simply being known as port adelaide or port, before a premiership. Slow phase out of power.

Surely this is unpopular.

Funny how in your quest to make us more like the Port Adelaide Magpies you've disregarded the 'we exist to win premierships' moniker that underpinned the Magpies' success.
 
Jan 30, 2013
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We are not good enough with this team and game plan so we have 3 choices
1. A substantial change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and minimal personnel change or
2. A minimal change to the game plan and fitness philosophy but a substantial personnel change or
3. A decent level of change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and decent level of personal change

Where list wise do you see our downfall?

Overrating of the whole list or specific areas where we are down on quality/quantity? Or just the players needing to be a bit heavier?
 
Where list wise do you see our downfall?

Overrating of the whole list or specific areas where we are down on quality/quantity?
We dont have enough experienced proper Key Power Forwards. We need a Gorilla - Hawkins, Cloke or Roughead type. Westhoff doesnt take enough marks in our forward line. He is a tall not a proper KPF. He takes great marks floating down back. Schulz struggles against the Gorilla defender. He does his best work on a lead. Plus he is banged up and is slowing down. Butcher will never be a Gorillia - has hip issues. I reckon Doogal Howard is going to be more Westhoff than Hawkins. I want to see Harvey play and find out if he is good enough but obviously Ken and co dont reckon he is ready.

Redden needs to stay fit and healthly as depth. Frampton has surprised me how much he has advanced the 2nd half of the season for the Magpies.

If Jonas and O'Shea are on song, then along with Hombsch, a fit Carlile and Jacko healthy then we seem to have the right mix of KPD's, although I'd like to have another 197cm KPD for certain match ups eg when Sydney play a forward line with 4 x 195+cm who are all over 100 kgs. Logan Austin could be that guy in a year or twos time. I've been impressed watching him a few times in the Magpies.

We need 4 or 5 more elite kicks running thru the mid field. Last year we were 13th or 14th for kicking efficiency and this year we have dropped one spot when I looked it up the stats a few weeks ago. And last year included Polec playing nearly every game.

We need to be bigger and stronger all over but in particular in the mid field. Hopefully Ah Chee is the guy to help Ollie out in the guts. Put that 3kgs back onto Ollie Burgo!

I'd like one more mid field or half back with absolute blistering pace to help out White and cover when either he is injured or being nullified out of the game.

If we didnt find Ah Chee and Sammy Gray the last 3 or 4 weeks then I would have been pretty worried about our mid field depth, now Im back to being concerned. Mitchell, Moore, Hoon, Young, Stewart, have failed too often. The Hoon has a fair reason he had 12 months off with his ACL so lets see how he goes next year. The rest Yo-Yo in and out of the side too easily. Amon will be a yo-yo player for another season or two he needs time. Neade is inconsistent but he's 21 not 27 so we perserve
 

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I don't think I would support it, there's a lot of port supporters who do not follow the magies. I think the balance is right now
I thought he was talking about a monogram without Power or Magpies in it. Just Port Adelaide. Why would non-magpies Power supporters (not many according to club surveys) have an issue with this?
 

achee acheeman

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We are not good enough with this team and game plan so we have 3 choices
1. A substantial change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and minimal personnel change or
2. A minimal change to the game plan and fitness philosophy but a substantial personnel change or
3. A decent level of change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and decent level of personal change
I think we are good enough with this team...

If we had this list and our list is hitting its peak then yes...

But as we know only a few players are at their peak level eg boak sarge westhoff robbie bobby white

The rest of the top off my head still have gears left to develop...

With wines and polec out ...kraks building his fitness..achhee and gray stepping up...next year will be an interesting 22
 
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We are not good enough with this team and game plan so we have 3 choices
1. A substantial change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and minimal personnel change or
2. A minimal change to the game plan and fitness philosophy but a substantial personnel change or
3. A decent level of change to the game plan and fitness philosophy and decent level of personal change

I disagree. Our best is good enough, we've proven that time and time again. We've beaten every team in the league under Ken Hinkley. Besides Sydney, we've beaten every team in the league in 2014/2015 alone. So our game plan has held up against all opposition over a very short period of time. We should've played in a grand final last year but we didn't because, to paraphrase the coach of the team that beat us, we weren't tough enough for long enough. We were beaten by a hardened, mature opponent. Even this year we have beaten the reigning premier twice, three other current top 8 teams and missed out against the top two teams by a kick. Yes we've had problems this year but chief among those problems has been between the ears.

We will get natural improvement from our list. Wines, Polec and Ah Chee are a young midfield trio that any club would envy. That's one A grade contested ball bull, one A grade outside jet and one A grade all action work horse. Combine that with Ryder, Boak and Gray all still well within the prime of their careers and we've got a super midfield for years to come. Our back line has been criticised this year but it's still young. Pittard, Hombsch, Clurey and Jonas are all at an age/experience level where they should still improve as footballers. Our forward line has its obvious problems but we are looking to address that at the trade table with the probable addition of Dixon. I'm optimistic about what Jake Neade might be able to do over the next few years. And we've got a guy called Chad Wingard too who is pretty much the best forward in the league.

Tl;dr - our best is good enough, we've just got to keep at it until we get it right more often.
 
I disagree. Our best is good enough, we've proven that time and time again. We've beaten every team in the league under Ken Hinkley. Besides Sydney, we've beaten every team in the league in 2014/2015 alone. So our game plan has held up against all opposition over a very short period of time. We should've played in a grand final last year but we didn't because, to paraphrase the coach of the team that beat us, we weren't tough enough for long enough. We were beaten by a hardened, mature opponent. Even this year we have beaten the reigning premier twice, three other current top 8 teams and missed out against the top two teams by a kick. Yes we've had problems this year but chief among those problems has been between the ears.

We will get natural improvement from our list. Wines, Polec and Ah Chee are a young midfield trio that any club would envy. Combine that with Ryder, Boak and Gray all still well within the prime of their careers and we've got a super midfield for years to come. Our back line has been criticised this year but it's still young. Pittard, Hombsch, Clurey and Jonas are all at an age/experience level where they should still improve as footballers. Our forward line has its obvious problems but we are looking to address that at the trade table with the probably addition of Dixon. I'm optimistic about what Jake Neade might be able to do over the next few years. And we've got a guy called Chad Wingard too who is pretty much the best forward in the league.

Tl;dr - our best is good enough, we've just got to keep at it until we get it right more often.
We are not good enough for long enough. Something has to change. If we want to win a flag we have to win at least 20 games inc the GF in a season. we have won 12+1, 14+2, and 10. That's not good enough to not change something by a decent amount.
 
We are not good enough for long enough. Something has to change. If we want to win a flag we have to win at least 20 games inc the GF in a season. we have won 12+1, 14+2, and 10. That's not good enough to not change something by a decent amount.

I think a bit of tinkering, a stronger/more aggressive mindset and a maybe a bit of luck would make the world of difference.

I don't think we need to make substantial change to our list. We've got a very strong core, half of which are still quite young and inexperienced compared to the pace setting clubs. We should aim to add players like Dixon and go to the draft as always with an eye to the future but wholesale changes aren't required at this point.

I've got no problem with our game plan. It's when we deviate from our game plan that we run into trouble. It's high risk and requires everyone to be on their game but it's a winning style when applied correctly. The more we do it, the better we'll get at it.

Fitness is obviously a point of conjecture. I'm no expert. We may need to make a change there or we may not. You probably know a lot more than I REH.
 
Jun 19, 2005
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I don't think I would support it, there's a lot of port supporters who do not follow the magies. I think the balance is right now

There's a whole lot of Port supporters who are completely indifferent to the Magpies due to growing up in an era when the SANFL became a second rate feeder competition. This doesn't mean they don't identify with the PAFC Est 1870 branding, just that the AFL is all they care about.
 
Nov 6, 2014
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There's a whole lot of Port supporters who are completely indifferent to the Magpies due to growing up in an era when the SANFL became a second rate feeder competition. This doesn't mean they don't identify with the PAFC Est 1870 branding, just that the AFL is all they care about.
The atmosphere at Alberton games is outstanding though so those who don't go (at least occasionally) are really missing out. Even those only mainly interested in the Power can get to see the rookies and second tier players have a game. Sammy Gray for example is well known and loved by the Maggies supporters.
 

SgtSchulz

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The atmosphere at Alberton games is outstanding though so those who don't go (at least occasionally) are really missing out. Even those only mainly interested in the Power can get to see the rookies and second tier players have a game. Sammy Gray for example is well known and loved by the Maggies supporters.
Best thing about SANFL games at Alberton is grabbing a drink and leaning literally on the interchange box listening to the coaches talk strategy to our young AFL listed players.
 
I think a bit of tinkering, a stronger/more aggressive mindset and a maybe a bit of luck would make the world of difference.

I don't think we need to make substantial change to our list. We've got a very strong core, half of which are still quite young and inexperienced compared to the pace setting clubs. We should aim to add players like Dixon and go to the draft as always with an eye to the future but wholesale changes aren't required at this point.

I've got no problem with our game plan. It's when we deviate from our game plan that we run into trouble. It's high risk and requires everyone to be on their game but it's a winning style when applied correctly. The more we do it, the better we'll get at it.

Fitness is obviously a point of conjecture. I'm no expert. We may need to make a change there or we may not. You probably know a lot more than I REH.
2003 Finals our best 21 played all 3 finals and Guerra was dropped for Cockatoo-Collins after the Sydney QF and had won 18+1 games that year after winning 18+1 games in 2002 and 16+0 in 2001.

We made 4 changes to that prelim final and semi final 22 for the next finals series, Stevens, Cocharane, Cockatoo Collins and Paxman replaced by Casissi (development), James (injury recovery), Mahoney (new) and Thurstans (development). Plus we made a big structural change of putting Chad back to CHB.

To me that suggest we need to make about 6 changes to who we think in is our best 23 is to go all the way. That to me meets the definition of a decent level of change. And dont talk about injuries because injuries will always happen and you cant guarantee you have your best team on the park week in week out. Look at how many bad knee injuries we had over 2000-2004 period that kept out our best players out for a year or more, Bond, Wilbur, Paxman, Primus, Francou, James, Lade's back to back broken leg, Wakelin's busted cheek bone, Carr's broken Jaw, Hardwick missing half 2004 etc etc. We kept winning games during the year despite these injuries setting us up for top 3 spots, but we couldnt cover some of those players come finals time. Our depth has to get better to cover the injured players and keep winning and put us in top 2 and top 4 positions.

I've come to the conclusion the last 5 weeks our current game plan isnt sustainable. Burgess has got our guys pasted the sweet spot of weight/bulk/strength vs running ability/endurance trade off. The other teams have worked us out and forced us to play a lot more congested stoppage football. That isnt going to change in 2016, teams know we went to run. So to get around that we have to run more, run faster and become bigger and stronger to win more stoppages and therefore more games. That isnt possible without chemical assistance. You can increase both up to a point when you are young and not very fit- but then as you get to peak fitness there its a trade off, after you hit the sweet spot. There is a natural trade off but to play Ken's game plan and counterbalance the opposition tactics you have to increase both. To quote blackcat - NOT NORMAL to increase both.

That's why I think its more than tinkering.

Then there is mindset. We have players who continually stuff up when the game is tight. Since mid last season we have lost too many games when the game is on the line. Just like our 2004 players post the 2003 finals * up, grabbed the bull by the horns, were coaching themselves a lot of the time, and rejected a bit of the Choco/Walsh possession footy game plan, because they saw it wasnt sustainable against the bigger stronger sides come finals time, our 2016 players will have to become mentally stronger to take games by the horns and coach themselves out there when the going gets tough and tight.
 
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yepits2020

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Apr 25, 2013
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Redden needs to stay fit and healthly as depth. Frampton has surprised me how much he has advanced the 2nd half of the season for the Magpies.


Not surprised. He improved greatly between 2013 and 2014 and is continuing his upwards trajectory. Would be even better, if I remember he was injured the first half of the year and played his first game early June. Only played the last 9 games, so yes, he has improved in the second half of the season.

Was the best ruckman for WA in the U18 championship. Did not know who is was when selected, but after looking him up, he intrigued me the most of all the selections in 2014. He is quite quick as well. Still very very young and turns 19 on 20 November. 200 to 201 cm and already 90 kg. Good prospect.
 
2003 Finals our best 21 played all 3 finals and Guerra was dropped for Cockatoo-Collins after the Sydney QF and had won 18+1 games that year after winning 18+1 games in 2002 and 16+0 in 2001.

We made 4 changes to that prelim final and semi final 22 for the next finals series, Stevens, Cocharane, Cockatoo Collins and Paxman replaced by Casissi (development), James (injury recovery), Mahoney (new) and Thurstans (development). Plus we made a big structural change of putting Chad back to CHB.

To me that suggest we need to make about 6 changes to who we think in is our best 23 is to go all the way. That to me meets the definition of a decent level of change. And dont talk about injuries because injuries will always happen and you cant guarantee you have your best team on the park week in week out. Look at how many bad knee injuries we had over 2000-2004 period that kept out our best players out for a year or more, Bond, Wilbur, Paxman, Primus, Francou, James, Lade's back to back broken leg, Wakelin's busted cheek bone, Carr's broken Jaw, Hardwick missing half 2004 etc etc. We kept winning games during the year despite these injuries setting us up for top 3 spots, but we couldnt cover some of those players come finals time. Our depth has to get better to cover the injured players and keep winning and put us in top 2 and top 4 positions.

I've come to the conclusion the last 5 weeks our current game plan isnt sustainable. Burgess has got our guys pasted the sweet spot of weight/bulk/strength vs running ability/endurance trade off. The other teams have worked us out and forced us to play a lot more congested stoppage football. That isnt going to change in 2016, teams know we went to run. So to get around that we have to run more, run faster and become bigger and stronger to win more stoppages and therefore more games. That isnt possible without chemical assistance. You can increase both up to a point when you are young and not very fit- but then as you get to peak fitness there its a trade off, after you hit the sweet spot. There is a natural trade off but to play Ken's game plan and counterbalance the opposition tactics you have to increase both. To quote blackcat - NOT NORMAL to increase both.

That's why I think its more than tinkering.

Then there is mindset. We have players who continually stuff up when the game is tight. Since mid last season we have lost too many games when the game is on the line. Just like our 2004 players post the 2003 finals **** up, grab the bull by the horne, were coaching themselves a lot of the time, and rejected a bit of the Choco/Walsh possession footy game plan because they saw it wasnt sustainable against the bigger stronger sides, our 2016 players will have to become mentally stronger to take games by the horn and coach themselves out there when the going gets tough and tight.

Yes, but in your world success is obviously instantaneous and linear. Mindset, fitness, adherence to gameplan are all things that take time.

In 2012 we couldn't hit the side of a barn and lost to an inaugural franchise in GWS. Your summation is that we haven't improved enough in 3 years to challenge for a flag when it's abundantly clear to anyone who doesn't have an agenda to play a certain way that this squad still has a lot of improvement left in it. We have to make 3 changes to the list anyway and certain players who would be in the best 22 right now are injured (Trengove, Carlile, Wines, Polec), out of form (Lobbe) and others wouldn't have even got a spot at the start of the year (Ah Chee, S. Gray). That's your five to six changes right there.

Comparing our squad to the 2001-2003 model that was considered on the precipice and one of the best teams in the competition is folly. Those teams were dominating the regular season and just couldn't get over the line. They had reached their peak, which is why major list changes had to happen to keep things fresh.

And as for the gameplan...lets just see next year, shall we? If it fails again then you'll be right.
 
2003 Finals our best 21 played all 3 finals and Guerra was dropped for Cockatoo-Collins after the Sydney QF and had won 18+1 games that year after winning 18+1 games in 2002 and 16+0 in 2001.

I don't follow.

2003QF = minus Primus, Francou and James.
 

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