Review VB: Put a fork in him!

[Red mist]

Agree , it is the way the modern game is played and we are not keeping up ! we expend so much pointless energy in our games where as Hawthorn are the most efficient team in the league in reward for physical output . It is how you apply it and where .

Yes it's like playing a subtle draw. A false sense of security or what have you. Get the opposition into a field position where they are attacking while still controlling the movement, ie down the line or corridor. When they get the ball on turnover the midfield has over crept it position. Then it's just a matter of going over the top or spreading wide. They use left footers to great effect for this.

 

[Emperoar]

Yes it's like playing a subtle draw. A false sense of security or what have you. Get the opposition into a field position where they are attacking while still controlling the movement, ie down the line or corridor. When they get the ball on turnover the midfield has over crept it position. Then it's just a matter of going over the top or spreading wide. They use left footers to great effect for this.

You've come such a long way friend.

 

[beartoo]

The stats don't lie and its all well and good. The game has changed however from just being top rated at stoppages. Its getting more involved in exit strategies both offensively and defensively and that's where we don't necessarily stack up.

I agree with your points and those of other people that replied--but we are arguing two different things. The point was made that Campo is a ratshit coach because his centre square set ups are no good and result in us getting smashed. I argued that this is not the case and the stats confirm my point of view.
What happens after the ball is cleared is another matter altogether.

 

[Red mist]

I agree with your points and those of other people that replied--but we are arguing two different things. The point was made that Campo is a ratshit coach because his centre square set ups are no good and result in us getting smashed. I argued that this is not the case and the stats confirm my point of view.
What happens after the ball is cleared is another matter altogether.

No worries.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Agree , it is the way the modern game is played and we are not keeping up ! we expend so much pointless energy in our games where as Hawthorn are the most efficient team in the league in reward for physical output . It is how you apply it and where .

Are you saying Walsh's gameplan wasn't sustainable?

Not a smart-ass question either, genuinely interested in your response as you've raised an interesting topic here.

 

[Iron]

Must just be coincidence that Tredrea spoke about VB being dropped and then it happened.

 

[King Elvis]

I know a fair bit of Sydney's success is built on the COLA, but we only needed to look at Goodes early in the season. Longmire saw it fit to play him in a combination of 2's and sub and he's an out and out champion of a player. VB was above average earlier in his career, but has been nothing more than an honest plodder the last 3-4 years and yet there appeared a prevailing view that if he's physically fit, he's an automatic selection. Goodes has worked into the season quite nicely and looks like playing his part if they go deep into September. Compare that to where VB is right now and what we've achieved by playing him when woefully out of form.

And Reilly.
And Porps.
And Tambling.
And Wright.
And McKay.

Our insistence on playing out of form players, for extended periods of time, is insane.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

And Reilly.
And Porps.
And Tambling.
And Wright.
And McKay.

Our insistence on playing out of form players, for extended periods of time, is insane.

And is wearing very thin.

With the loss of Walsh and the consistent embarrassing selection of players, my enthusiasm is somewhere between not caring anymore and just tinkering on being 'meh' right now.

We show courage by playing Kelly, Lever, Atkins, Knight and CEY but then we continue to pick VB , Mackay, and Wright and then go and give Martin a go.

By playing CEY over Martin, Lyons over MacKay and Kerridge over Wright will not have very much impact on the result but it will give us an absolute crystal clear direction where we are heading but once again, the club has shown the take one step forward but two steps back.

Another mid table finish coming up.

 

[treeman]

I'm sick of seeing and hearing people perplexed about VB being dropped saying that his leadership is amazing and his positioning etc. Then they bag the haters that they don't understand the game.
Rowie said on Fiveaa said along the lines that he'll be back no question. Seriously, why should he be back? Even before his injury I don't recall him playing well before.

Then they rave on about Martin like he's going to be some sort of savour. He can get the ball and does do some good things but his disposal nearly always let's you down.

Then they also lament on Pods not making the final side like he would have got the win for us.

I think it's the mentality of the average supporter which keeps a lot of these half average kind of players around.

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[Thinker]

The stats don't lie and its all well and good. The game has changed however from just being top rated at stoppages. Its getting more involved in exit strategies both offensively and defensively and that's where we don't necessarily stack up.

This.

Sauce was killed by NicNac. It shouldn't have had the effect it did. We did not adjust our centre square set up to react to a losing ruck. Is that Campo's fault as coach or should our on ballers have made that adjustment themselves?

 

[King Elvis]

Well, you'd like the mids to be a factor in changing it, but we do employ a midfield coach for a reason...

I'm sick of seeing and hearing people perplexed about VB being dropped saying that his leadership is amazing and his positioning etc. Then they bag the haters that they don't understand the game.
Rowie said on Fiveaa said along the lines that he'll be back no question. Seriously, why should he be back? Even before his injury I don't recall him playing well before.

Then they rave on about Martin like he's going to be some sort of savour. He can get the ball and does do some good things but his disposal nearly always let's you down.

Then they also lament on Pods not making the final side like he would have got the win for us.

I think it's the mentality of the average supporter which keeps a lot of these half average kind of players around.

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Same as when Sando finally dropped Reilly last year, said something like, "He's an excellent player and he'll be straight back in soon."

It's a crap mentality; if he was playing poorly and was rightfully dropped, why would he be straight back in??

Campo said a similar thing about VB; why? All he needed to say was; "VB needs to go back and dominate the SANFL, if he does that, he'll force his way back into the side."

 

[treeman]

Well, you'd like the mids to be a factor in changing it, but we do employ a midfield coach for a reason...



Same as when Sando finally dropped Reilly last year, said something like, "He's an excellent player and he'll be straight back in soon."

It's a crap mentality; if he was playing poorly and was rightfully dropped, why would he be straight back in??

Campo said a similar thing about VB; why? All he needed to say was; "VB needs to go back and dominate the SANFL, if he does that, he'll force his way back into the side."

Did he really? Well hopefully he doesn't. Will be interesting to see what happens.

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[Red mist]

This.

Sauce was killed by NicNac. It shouldn't have had the effect it did. We did not adjust our centre square set up to react to a losing ruck. Is that Campo's fault as coach or should our on ballers have made that adjustment themselves?

I would say there's onus on the midfield group to make the necessary adjustments as well as communication from a runner if they are not picking things up. So both.

 

[King Elvis]

Up to the coach, IMO.

 

[fabs33]

I'm sick of seeing and hearing people perplexed about VB being dropped saying that his leadership is amazing and his positioning etc. Then they bag the haters that they don't understand the game.
Rowie said on Fiveaa said along the lines that he'll be back no question. Seriously, why should he be back? Even before his injury I don't recall him playing well before.

Then they rave on about Martin like he's going to be some sort of savour. He can get the ball and does do some good things but his disposal nearly always let's you down.

Then they also lament on Pods not making the final side like he would have got the win for us.

I think it's the mentality of the average supporter which keeps a lot of these half average kind of players around.

Sent from my ME173X using Tapatalk

I think it's kind of like political correctness, where they try and be as positive as possible when talking about our (and Port) players, especially those that have been around for a while and have a few fans within the supporter group.

 

[dylan123]

And Reilly.
And Porps.
And Tambling.
And Wright.
And McKay.

Our insistence on playing out of form players, for extended periods of time, is insane.

Tambling I'd have in a different category, one that guys like Symes, L.Thompson and Martin fall into.

Guys who we never really backed in to the extend of the other guys you've mentioned to prove whether they have it or not/stayed on our list longer then they should have before we finally made our mind up. Now maybe these guys were held onto purely for depth reasons which I guess is fair enough in some sense but something we as a forum give little thought to. That said, given where we've been at as a club for the past 5 years (well longer really) and the other guys pushing for selection, when these guys (Tambling, Symes, Thompson, Martin etc) are selected it doesn't make that much sense. Even less when they play well (like Martin did earlier in the year, like Tambling did in his last game for the AFC) and then get dropped the following week.

Why did they play? Were they given a real chance to gain a spot? If so, why were they dropped when they seemingly played well enough (not in the handful of players you'd consider our worst for the day)? If they weren't selected to really earn a long term position, were they selected to help us win a game? If so, why when were a middle of the table side? Why not invest in some of the younger guys to see if they have it or not and help prevent them from being the next Tambling/Symes/Thompson/Martin/etc type players on our list that we so very little of every in their career we really have no idea if they're AFL standard players or not when they're 23-24+?Grigg, Lyons, Kerridge etc have all seemed to be going down that path over the past few years and it's an annoying cycle to be in.

 

[beartoo]

I

Then they rave on about Martin like he's going to be some sort of savour. He can get the ball and does do some good things but his disposal nearly always let's you down.
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Where do you get that from? His disposal is usually good--apart from kicking for goal the last couple of years. What's his DE?

 

[treeman]

Where do you get that from? His disposal is usually good--apart from kicking for goal the last couple of years. What's his DE?

Yes I'm more talking about his shots on goal but that's a big part of his game.
Would be interested to know his DE too though.

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[1970crow]

Up to the coach, IMO.

The line coaches don't sit high up in the standards just to keep away from the riff raff.

 

[1970crow]

I think it's kind of like political correctness, where they try and be as positive as possible when talking about our (and Port) players, especially those that have been around for a while and have a few fans within the supporter group.

I think a lot of it is political correctness. In some cases it's just sheer stupidity though and Rowie is a classic example. He believes that despite years of the same everything can be improved without the need to change personell. His view on the SACA was laughable a while ago, "what are we going to about the SACA, we've been terrible for ages". But goes on to say the coach is great, the manager is great, the board is great and anyone ringing in to suggest changing any of that was effectively just a 'hater' for no apparent reason. So WTF are you going to do Rowie? In this regard he's a moron of the highest order.

 

[Pugsley]

I think a lot of it is political correctness. In some cases it's just sheer stupidity though and Rowie is a classic example. He believes that despite years of the same everything can be improved without the need to change personell. His view on the SACA was laughable a while ago, "what are we going to about the SACA, we've been terrible for ages". But goes on to say the coach is great, the manager is great, the board is great and anyone ringing in to suggest changing any of that was effectively just a 'hater' for no apparent reason. So WTF are you going to do Rowie? In this regard he's a moron of the highest order.

In any regard, he's a moron of the highest order keep him away from the paint tins.

 

[Elite Crow]

I think a lot of it is political correctness. In some cases it's just sheer stupidity though and Rowie is a classic example. He believes that despite years of the same everything can be improved without the need to change personell. His view on the SACA was laughable a while ago, "what are we going to about the SACA, we've been terrible for ages". But goes on to say the coach is great, the manager is great, the board is great and anyone ringing in to suggest changing any of that was effectively just a 'hater' for no apparent reason. So WTF are you going to do Rowie? In this regard he's a moron of the highest order.

I heard that discussion, his rationale for backing the SACA was he knows them and won't pot people he knows, if that's his stance he shouldn't be on th radio because that's part of the job to be objective.

 

[Andrew P]

Are you saying Walsh's gameplan wasn't sustainable?

Not a smart-ass question either, genuinely interested in your response as you've raised an interesting topic here.

Believe that our team is a work in progress and Phil was aware of that but our full press style on the defensive side of things did not suit who was out on the field as we lack the leg speed for that to be successful more than it is not . I also think our centre square work to be way too aggressive and repetitive . We also do not seem to play horses for courses and this is evident when we throw the same team and tactics at any given opposition . We were killed by the Bulldogs and GWS by leg speed , run and spread . I am not really sure why guys like Van Berlo , Mackay and Wright have not been held accountable to form and this type of thing has occurred at the club for way too long . Brodie Martin coming into the team this week is a joke , the guy is a good SANFL player but just is not up to it at the next level . I believe the main problem with the Crows is make up of the coaches box and a certain level of comfort through conversation . Too many yes men patting each other on the back and overrating players and direction of the list . We have a good base of talent but need some outside eyes and voice .
In finishing i strongly think that Phil Walsh would have had the team humming along next year and really making inroads into 2017 . Just my opinion .

 

[Andrew P]

I'm sick of seeing and hearing people perplexed about VB being dropped saying that his leadership is amazing and his positioning etc. Then they bag the haters that they don't understand the game.
Rowie said on Fiveaa said along the lines that he'll be back no question. Seriously, why should he be back? Even before his injury I don't recall him playing well before.

Then they rave on about Martin like he's going to be some sort of savour. He can get the ball and does do some good things but his disposal nearly always let's you down.

Then they also lament on Pods not making the final side like he would have got the win for us.

I think it's the mentality of the average supporter which keeps a lot of these half average kind of players around.

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COULD NOT AGREE MORE !

 

[Godallblighty]

Tambling I'd have in a different category, one that guys like Symes, L.Thompson and Martin fall into.

Guys who we never really backed in to the extend of the other guys you've mentioned to prove whether they have it or not/stayed on our list longer then they should have before we finally made our mind up. Now maybe these guys were held onto purely for depth reasons which I guess is fair enough in some sense but something we as a forum give little thought to. That said, given where we've been at as a club for the past 5 years (well longer really) and the other guys pushing for selection, when these guys (Tambling, Symes, Thompson, Martin etc) are selected it doesn't make that much sense. Even less when they play well (like Martin did earlier in the year, like Tambling did in his last game for the AFC) and then get dropped the following week.

Why did they play? Were they given a real chance to gain a spot? If so, why were they dropped when they seemingly played well enough (not in the handful of players you'd consider our worst for the day)? If they weren't selected to really earn a long term position, were they selected to help us win a game? If so, why when were a middle of the table side? Why not invest in some of the younger guys to see if they have it or not and help prevent them from being the next Tambling/Symes/Thompson/Martin/etc type players on our list that we so very little of every in their career we really have no idea if they're AFL standard players or not when they're 23-24+?Grigg, Lyons, Kerridge etc have all seemed to be going down that path over the past few years and it's an annoying cycle to be in.

I'm a supporter of Martin, but your reasoning here is spot on. The team is either playing for now or playing for the future and our selections in recent times have seemed confused as to which it is. Admittedly, sometimes you might having a bet each way, eg. resting a sore or older player against one of the weaker sides so they'll be right for later games, but this is within the context of playing for 'now' ie. this season.