VFL competition is a mess

[Obi fella]

There will always be a place for VFA/VFL if managed correctly. It's a genuine league for AFL recruiting. Where else can you drink a $5 beer from a can in the outer, let your young kids run around unlike being stuck in a seat at a packed AFL game. You can listen to the coaches at quarter time & three quarter time or kick the footy with the kids. I love it & it's an enjoyable brand in my opinion.

 

[walhawk]

Guys, history tells us that new teams do not work.
You cannot have Dandenong, Bendigo, Murray, Goulburn Valley, etc.
Even Nth Ballarat will stuggle once all NM players are gone.
Frankston will always be a battler but it is a real experience heading doen there. Such passion from so few.
You will never get that passion from made up clubs. And existing clubs would be foolish to leave strong local leagues - that would be suicide.
Unless they are going to increase the number of games played from 18 to 20, there is no need to remove the bye.
Ratings are up, finals crowds have been good (apart from Box Hill QF when both AFL clubs were playing the same time as their VFL clubs), we will have up to 16 teams in 2017 with Sandy and Saints spltting.
Need to let it play out.
Might end up with anywhere from 12 - 16 clubs.

 

[JD Tomahawk]

How will the rumoured afl reserves comp affect the vfl? Will the stand alone vfl teams just play in the afl reserves and the vfl have less teams? Maybe we could see the re introduction of Northern bullants and Bendigo. Or a promotion of a vfa side.
I don't know how they would fill the reserve teams all year as injuries always occur meaning they'd top up with the best vfl players resulting in some type of catastrophic collapse of VFL as we know it!!

Edit : or it could be the best thing that could happen for footy in vic

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I dont think the AFL will fund sides that they have no control over, so doubt they will take the stand alone clubs along for the ride.

Will the VFA survive after it? Its probably a good question. I think its only chance would be for the stand alone clubs to align themselves with TAC cup sides (most probably do already but perhaps even changing names to incorporate the TAC cup side name and then can share facilities, resources etc and then have a natural pathway for the players to join once they get to senior level and want to continue playing elite football rather than chase cash at local level.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Bendigo Gold was essentially a franchise, the VFA screwed it horribly. They didn't ask one of the existing big clubs from Bendigo into the league, they took QE Oval and made their own. It was destined to fail.

The VFA never screwed up Bendigo Gold or Bendigo Diggers, the screwing up was done by the VFL (under the AFL's watch).
The VFA was absorbed into the VSFL (aka the AFL Reserves) after the 1995 season, so the goings-on after then was overseen by others.

 

[Pessimistic]

Once heard Finey discuss this and he did have a fairly good handle on the issues (surprise)

Explored linking the VFL more to the lower leagues, as the VFL cannot possibly represent all areas because there'd be 20-30 teams.

He didn't suggest this but could the VFL be like European soccer ? each year the previous premiers from each suburban league take part in a 'Victorian championship" in parallel with competing in their local leagues.

Effectively each teams firsts would compete in the Victorian championship and its seconds would take its place in each suburban league.

AFL could find some funding to cover the financial restructure each club would incur when competing in the Victorian championship

AFL teams would just have a seconds competition

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Not a bad idea actually.
I remember the old VFL had two divisions. I certainly remember sides like Brunswick, Caulfield, Dandenong and Geelong West used to exist in VFA and there was a relegation system.

Maybe your idea could be adapted to something of that form
I think if we treated the AFL 10 Victorian clubs as having genuine reserves teams as the essence of a division one and some of the old traditional VFA clubs as division two with the the premiership stand alone club promoted to division one it could work in an odd way for long term.
So you might have 12 teams in VFL (division one) and 8 teams in VFA (division two) it could fit where we are at in where state league level should be.

Certainly the sooner, Carlton, St.Kilda, Melbourne and North Melbourne get their own reserves team in true name we could have the 10 reserves team and two best stand alone VFA clubs in division one and it removes byes and fixture the VFL in a way where when the 10 AFL Vic clubs play each other in AFL that their reserves teams play the same week as much as possible and have more curtain raisers where possible. Certainly as a Carlton supporter I know we had 3 curtain raisers during year but only the one v Collingwood at MCG was against the same club we played in AFL. I think we need more of that.

So it might start with the following set up
VFL
Box Hill Hawks
Footscray
St.Kilda
Geelong
Essendon
Geelong
Carlton
Collingwood
Richmond
North Melbourne
Williamstown
Port Melbourne

VFA
Casey Scorpions
Sandringham
Werribee
Coburg
Preston
North Ballarat
Frankston
Dandenong

The VFA could start as 8 team league and play each other 3 times for 21 home and away rounds and have a old top four finals series.
Premiership team promoted to VFL the following season and lowest stand alone club of the two in VFL is relegated to make place for the VFA premiers the following year.

If in time the VFA grew to 10 teams and allowed another form of a Bendigo club to get involved that should remain open as possibility and also a Gippsland Valley team or some other old VFA club like Prahran or even some form of a Fitzroy club brought into existence. Not sure but I believe something of this nature could work if given a decent chance of a decade to find a footing in Victoria.

Would be interesting alternative idea to current mix of the way state league level footy in run here.
I'd love to see things like my own Carlton reserves team and Preston Bullants exist as individual teams.
Maybe Hawthorn and Box Hill creating Box Hill Hawks has been a genuine win-win for both entities that could remain as it is.

So if Willy and Port both finish in the top six, you'd relegate one of them? I can't that working. If one of them finished last, maybe, otherwise it would be grossly unfair.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

There will always be a place for VFA/VFL if managed correctly. It's a genuine league for AFL recruiting. Where else can you drink a $5 beer from a can in the outer, let your young kids run around unlike being stuck in a seat at a packed AFL game. You can listen to the coaches at quarter time & three quarter time or kick the footy with the kids. I love it & it's an enjoyable brand in my opinion.

At any non-AFL game

 

[footyfan1978]

So if Willy and Port both finish in the top six, you'd relegate one of them?

Yes.

I can't that working. If one of them finished last, maybe, otherwise it would be grossly unfair.

It is not so unfair if you know as a stand alone VFA club, that is your lot if you get into division one with AFL reserve sides. Having said that I'm not sure realistically whether two teams would get that good to both be top six. It is possible we could adapt it and a stand alone VFA club is only relegated if it is in bottom 4 or bottom 2. That might work better. So in unlikely event two stand alone clubs were in top half of ladder in division one they assure their spot for next season in same division and the grand finalists in VFA know there is no spot vacant to jump up the next season. I guess that could work too. Come to think of it I guess it is better. So maybe conditional promotion/relegation. If so, the lowest stand alone club is bottom two in division one will be relegated. Replaced next season by club that premiers in VFA.

 

[walhawk]

Once heard Finey discuss this and he did have a fairly good handle on the issues (surprise)

Explored linking the VFL more to the lower leagues, as the VFL cannot possibly represent all areas because there'd be 20-30 teams.

He didn't suggest this but could the VFL be like European soccer ? each year the previous premiers from each suburban league take part in a 'Victorian championship" in parallel with competing in their local leagues.

Effectively each teams firsts would compete in the Victorian championship and its seconds would take its place in each suburban league.

AFL could find some funding to cover the financial restructure each club would incur when competing in the Victorian championship

AFL teams would just have a seconds competition

Suburban league clubs would have no interest in this.

Just have VFL with 10 reserves clubs.
No problem with Box Hill, etc sticking with Hawthorn in reserves, up to Casey, Preston to decide.

Around 8 clubs in VFA.
All aligned to TAC cup clubs.

 

[fumbler]

I just posted this to the Richmond VFL Board.

VFA                                        VFL
Bendigo                                  Carlton
Box Hill                                  Collingwood
Coburg                                   Essendon
Frankston                               Footscray
North Ballarat                         Geelong
Port Melbourne                        Hawthorn
Preston                                   Melbourne
Sandringham                           North Melbourne       
Werribee                                 Richmond
Williamstown                           St Kilda
Casey - Dandenong                  Gippsland or Murray

Each side plays home and away against the other sides in it's conference for 20 games. The top four in each conference play off for the top in each conference then play the top side in the opposite conference to see who the champion of Victoria is.

The only way to get VFA Footy back on track is to not play any AFL games on Sundays in Victoria.
Play VFA games on Sundays.

 

[radiojake]

The only way to get VFA Footy back on track is to not play any AFL games on Sundays in Victoria.
Play VFA games on Sundays.

Ah, right... so Adelaide/Port/WestCoast/Fremantle share the shithouse sunday afternoon games?

 

[The Speaker]

I just posted this to the Richmond VFL Board.

VFA                                        VFL
Bendigo                                  Carlton
Box Hill                                  Collingwood
Coburg                                   Essendon
Frankston                               Footscray
North Ballarat                         Geelong
Port Melbourne                        Hawthorn
Preston                                   Melbourne
Sandringham                           North Melbourne      
Werribee                                 Richmond
Williamstown                           St Kilda
Casey - Dandenong                  Gippsland or Murray

Each side plays home and away against the other sides in it's conference for 20 games. The top four in each conference play off for the top in each conference then play the top side in the opposite conference to see who the champion of Victoria is.

The only way to get VFA Footy back on track is to not play any AFL games on Sundays in Victoria.
Play VFA games on Sundays.

You're very close to right about how it should be, but this can only happen if the AFL doesn't exist. I would prefer a division structure, and then divide the current AFL players into team based on zoning, so all 20 teams have the ability to be as strong as each other.

 

[Sttew]

I just posted this to the Richmond VFL Board.

VFA                                        VFL
Bendigo                                  Carlton
Box Hill                                  Collingwood
Coburg                                   Essendon
Frankston                               Footscray
North Ballarat                         Geelong
Port Melbourne                        Hawthorn
Preston                                   Melbourne
Sandringham                           North Melbourne     
Werribee                                 Richmond
Williamstown                           St Kilda
Casey - Dandenong                  Gippsland or Murray

Each side plays home and away against the other sides in it's conference for 20 games. The top four in each conference play off for the top in each conference then play the top side in the opposite conference to see who the champion of Victoria is.

The only way to get VFA Footy back on track is to not play any AFL games on Sundays in Victoria.
Play VFA games on Sundays.

I like the concept, but I suspect the VFA will become a 2nd Division to the VFL, as we used to have with the old VFA.

Also, assuming the VFL clubs will incorporate AFL listed players, they will dominate

 

[fumbler]

Ah, right... so Adelaide/Port/WestCoast/Fremantle share the shithouse sunday afternoon games?

Why wouldn't you see Melbourne v WCE on Friday? I don't get what your meaning is?

No Sunday games in Victoria, the Governments of those other States could bring in the same rule.

You're very close to right about how it should be, but this can only happen if the AFL doesn't exist. I would prefer a division structure, and then divide the current AFL players into team based on zoning, so all 20 teams have the ability to be as strong as each other.

I thought of that also but to truly bring back even 10% of what the VFA had you have to re-establish the rivalries it had and you don't get that with having fly in fly outs in your side.

I like the concept, but I suspect the VFA will become a 2nd Division to the VFL, as we used to have with the old VFA.

Also, assuming the VFL clubs will incorporate AFL listed players, they will dominate

True it would be looked upon as the VFL's seconds but it's a lot better than it is atm.

 

[The Speaker]

I thought of that also but to truly bring back even 10% of what the VFA had you have to re-establish the rivalries it had and you don't get that with having fly in fly outs in your side.

I think you can. Really, most of the players in the league aren't that much better than those not in it. Increase the amount of clubs and players will stick around for longer, and more that never got the chance will get into teams. Besides, increasingly clubs are wary about drafting from outside their own state, and the AFL has just reintroduced zoning, so it seems obvious to me that people want this kind of local connection.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Why wouldn't you see Melbourne v WCE on Friday? I don't get what your meaning is?

No Sunday games in Victoria, the Governments of those other States could bring in the same rule.

Which would cause more than a few problems for the AFL in scheduling the three Sunday games a week they're contractually obliged to provide...

 

[fumbler]

Which would cause more than a few problems for the AFL in scheduling the three Sunday games a week they're contractually obliged to provide...

If the government brings in what the US has between itself and the NFL TV contracts will mean sqaut.
Bring it in after this one.
Play Friday night, Saturday, sat night, Monday night.
The TV station can broadcast a VFA Sunday and Sunday night game to make up for it.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

If the government brings in what the US has between itself and the NFL TV contracts will mean sqaut.
Bring it in after this one.
Play Friday night, Saturday, sat night, Monday night.
The TV station can broadcast a VFA Sunday and Sunday night game to make up for it.

Governments of multiple states aren't going to legislate in order to artificially prop up a second tier Victorian competition. You're dreaming.

 

[fumbler]

Governments of multiple states aren't going to legislate in order to artificially prop up a second tier Victorian competition. You're dreaming.

And there's something wrong with that?
It would help the other states comps to do the same thing.

How about instead of being a negative nelly you helped to look for a solution, this isn't the bay or some arguing area.
The AFL got together with AFL Canberra and AFLQ to start the NEAFL, why can't the do what i suggested?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

What problem am I solving? The VFL seems to be sustainable in its current form.

The AFL has been playing on Sundays for at least the last 30 years, going back to when it was the VFL with a couple of interstate expansion teams. It's now a billion-dollar entity. You'd have to think the league and its broadcast partners would lobby pretty hard against any attempt to take away their ability to hold games on a Sunday. Assuming there was any political appetite in the first place to even make such a law, which is very unlikely.

The VFL isn't going to get a day to itself, that's just a reality.

 

[fumbler]

What problem am I solving? The VFL seems to be sustainable in its current form.

The AFL has been playing on Sundays for at least the last 30 years, going back to when it was the VFL with a couple of interstate expansion teams. It's now a billion-dollar entity. You'd have to think the league and its broadcast partners would lobby pretty hard against any attempt to take away their ability to hold games on a Sunday. Assuming there was any political appetite in the first place to even make such a law, which is very unlikely.

The VFL isn't going to get a day to itself, that's just a reality.

The big picture?
I thought the game was the big picture, not the league.

Why would they not give them a day to themselves? There's a precedent set in Australia already as you stated.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

The big picture?
I thought the game was the big picture, not the league.

Why would they not give them a day to themselves? There's a precedent set in Australia already as you stated.

The closest thing I stated to a precedent was that at some point prior to 1987, back when footy players had full time jobs, the VFA had Sunday's to themselves. The world's moved on, they won't get that again. I've explained why, pretty fully I think.

 

[fumbler]

The closest thing I stated to a precedent was that at some point prior to 1987, back when footy players had full time jobs, the VFA had Sunday's to themselves. The world's moved on, they won't get that again. I've explained why, pretty fully I think.

So precedent set then.

No AFL on Sundays.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

So precedent set then.

No AFL on Sundays.

No worries mate, when it happens again I'll head down to the VFL ground of your choosing and buy you a beer bigger than your head.