2nds VFL Round 15 - Geelong v Essendon, Simonds Stadium, 11:00AM Saturday 25 July

[catswhiskers]

If he's fit to play he's fit to play... wherever that may be.

I think his form and how well he has gotten back into it has been a huge suprise and reckon it would at least have the MC thinking about giving him a shot

Agree completely.

What I saw at the ground last week and yesterday was enough to convince me he will and even perhaps should come back soon. He is holding nothing back. He could do his knee in the VFL just as easily as the AFL playing like that. What he did up forward and on the ball yesterday in the first 3 quarters (I left soon after 3/4 time) was as good as anything I have seen from Smedts or Kersten this year. His kicking is superb with power and accuracy and he still has the smarts - some of his work in packs was full on AFL standard - not all came off but he can think it, others at VFL level don't even dream it.

He only needs 10 possessions to hurt.

If he is going to do a knee soon i would rather it be on the big stage. At least he will have no regrets.

 

[Go Hoops]

I'd like to hear the answer to your question from those who were at the game, but here's some stats from the match for some key players including Bews:

Key Cats stats:
Mathew Stokes – 32 disposals, five marks, five clearances
George Horlin-Smith – 22 disposals, five i50s
Daniel Menzel – 18 disposals, six clearances, two goals
Jed Bews – 12 disposals, four marks
Dawson Simpson – 12 disposals, eight tackles, 38 hitouts
Josh Cowan – 11 disposals, three r50s
Nathan Vardy – six disposals, three marks, two goals
Goals: Menzel, Vardy, Sheringham 2, Blease, Jansen, Gore, Hollmer, Maas, Paliouras, Linton.
Best: Horlin-Smith, Sheringham, Menzel, Gore, Robinson, Ruggles

http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2015-07-25/vfl-cats-scorched-by-bombers

When he does that in the seniors, get back to me.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Very disappointing fade out from the vfl side even factoring in guys like Vardy and Cowan probably lacking match fitness and tiring in the second half.

That said every game Menzel gets through unscathed and builds form and gets closer to an afl return, is a game I am happy with.

 

[The rabbi]

Very disappointing fade out from the vfl side even factoring in guys like Vardy and Cowan probably lacking match fitness and tiring in the second half.

That said every game Menzel gets through unscathed and builds form and gets closer to an afl return, is a game I am happy with.

I don't think Vardy was on the track in the final term. Pretty sure he was warming the pine.

 

[catswhiskers]

I don't think Vardy was on the track in the final term. Pretty sure he was warming the pine.

Vardy started the final quarter and was still on ground when I left. Surprised me I thought he was only to play 3 quarters. Staff must have been happy with how he was travelling.

He took a couple of good marks but again got his hands to 2 or 3 more bigger marks but couldn't quite bring them down. Just like old times.

 

[AM]

Vardy started the final quarter and was still on ground when I left. Surprised me I thought he was only to play 3 quarters. Staff must have been happy with how he was travelling.

he took a couple of good marks but again got his hands to 2 or 3 more bigger marks but couldn't quite bring them down. Just like old times.

How was his mobility and endurance?

 

[catswhiskers]

How was his mobility and endurance?

Mobility looked pretty good to me. Endurance was hard to tell played inside the 50 all day. He hasn't got any smaller. Big unit.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Mobility looked pretty good to me. Endurance was hard to tell played inside the 50 all day. He hasn't got any smaller. Big unit.

If he was playing F50, he wouldn't have got near the ball in the last Q. Maybe he hadn't met his targets, so was left on the ground?

 

[Willo_]

Mobility looked pretty good to me. Endurance was hard to tell played inside the 50 all day. He hasn't got any smaller. Big unit.

He looked like he was blowing pretty hard a few times, but I would have been more concerned if he didn't look like that

 

[meto]

Stokes had 9 possessions as the sub in 1 quarter now 35 in the two's, how can anyone claim he's playing ordinary footy??

 

[Live in hope]

Stokes had 9 possessions as the sub in 1 quarter now 35 in the two's, how can anyone claim he's playing ordinary footy??

I'm also a little surprised about the rapid decline in support for Stokes - for a lot of the year getting reasonable stats in games, maybe in amongst top group of possession winners for us in a lot of 2015. Aside from Motlop was our best against Melbourne not that many games ago.

Find it surprising that 35 possessions didn't get him in best 5, but the VFL Best list seems often to be based more on sentiment than reality. Oddly the commentary in papers said he was best for us (?)

One difference from the Stokes of the 07-11 error is Matthew hasn't been a goal kicker for last few years. Possibly also lost some ability to hurt opposition with possession. Is this where the lack of love is?

 

[Teriyakicat]

I'm also a little surprised about the rapid decline in support for Stokes - for a lot of the year getting reasonable stats in games, maybe in top possession winners for us in a lot of 2015. Aside from Motlop was our best against Melbourne not that many games ago.

Find it surprising that 35 possessions didn't get him in best 5, but the VFL Best list seems often to be based more on sentiment than reality. Oddly the commentary in papers said he was best for us (?)

One difference from the Stokes of the 07-11 error is Matthew hasn't been a goal kicker for last few years. Possibly also lost some ability to hurt opposition with possession. Is this where the lack of love is?

His goalkicking dropped off in 2012 when he had a bit of a down year. He went away and re-invented himself as a midfielder and his goal kicking has just stayed low since then.

The ability to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard is often something that's highly valued in our players.

 

[Rosso]

I do believe that Stokes can come in and get 20+ in most games and uses the ball very well. I know he's over 30 but surely that's more damaging than the 10 or so touches that Lang and Gregson are getting at the moment.

Not saying don't play the kids but more so if Stevie J has a dozen touches in a game then he's getting retired before the final siren goes. A dozen touches shouldn't hold a spot in an AFL side, regardless of age.

 

[manboob]

Stokes is damaging in that we are much slower at getting the ball forward when he's in the side. His decision making has slowed to nails pace.

 

[Live in hope]

Just noticed no Bates - back on the injured list?

 

[FredLeDeux]

I'm also a little surprised about the rapid decline in support for Stokes - for a lot of the year getting reasonable stats in games, maybe in amongst top group of possession winners for us in a lot of 2015. Aside from Motlop was our best against Melbourne not that many games ago.

Find it surprising that 35 possessions didn't get him in best 5, but the VFL Best list seems often to be based more on sentiment than reality. Oddly the commentary in papers said he was best for us (?)

Yes, but he only got 12 of those possessions in the last quarter when we were outscored 7.5 to zero.

 

[meto]

His goalkicking dropped off in 2012 when he had a bit of a down year. He went away and re-invented himself as a midfielder and his goal kicking has just stayed low since then.

The ability to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard is often something that's highly valued in our players.

The club re-invented him and his numbers were stellar, blimy if he kicked 3 or 4 a game he'd have been Brownlow material. How many do you recon he'll get next week in the two's, I'm confident another lazy 30.

 

[Partridge]

Stokes had 9 possessions as the sub in 1 quarter now 35 in the two's, how can anyone claim he's playing ordinary footy??

Ordinary footy at senior level. It's great that he's gone back and played well in the VFL, but his VFL form should be treated exactly the same as that by Smedts, or Horlin-Smith, or Kersten, or Walker, or whoever. He may get a recall this week for Gregson or Lang. He may not. But he's not immune to playing in the seconds and neither should anyone else be.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Ordinary footy at senior level. It's great that he's gone back and played well in the VFL, but his VFL form should be treated exactly the same as that by Smedts, or Horlin-Smith, or Kersten, or Walker, or whoever. He may get a recall this week for Gregson or Lang. He may not. But he's not immune to playing in the seconds and neither should anyone else be.

I agree with you, P, in particular the bolded. There are always a handful of players running around in the seniors who probably deserve to be given a run in the twos due to form slumps but they seem to be exempt from being dropped because of structures or lack of better replacements in their position or whatever.
Stokesy might just have been more expendable than some equally deserving players.

 

[The rabbi]

Yep. Premiership players like Mooney, Milburn, Wojcinski, and Byrnes spent time in the VFL at the end of their careers and some even ended their careers there. As Partridge says, no one should be immune to kicking the dew off the grass.

 

[The rabbi]

I agree with you, P, in particular the bolded. There are always a handful of players running around in the seniors who probably deserve to be given a run in the twos due to form slumps but they seem to be exempt from being dropped because of structures or lack of better replacements in their position or whatever.
Stokesy might just have been more expendable than some equally deserving players.

And we also need to keep in mind the need to look to the future and develop the youth of the team.
There is not much future in continually playing veterans when the club could be getting games into the youth of the team.

 

[meto]

Ordinary footy at senior level. It's great that he's gone back and played well in the VFL, but his VFL form should be treated exactly the same as that by Smedts, or Horlin-Smith, or Kersten, or Walker, or whoever. He may get a recall this week for Gregson or Lang. He may not. But he's not immune to playing in the seconds and neither should anyone else be.

"It's great he's gone back and played well," 35 poss ..... and after 9 in a quarter at AFL,....wish they all played that well!
I'm not saying rush him back but they're the best numbers by far, and what if he does it again next week, humble pie!

 

[Cattery]

Stokes had 9 possessions as the sub in 1 quarter now 35 in the two's, how can anyone claim he's playing ordinary footy??

Best question I've seen posed on here for quite some time.

I'm also a little surprised about the rapid decline in support for Stokes - for a lot of the year getting reasonable stats in games, maybe in amongst top group of possession winners for us in a lot of 2015. Aside from Motlop was our best against Melbourne not that many games ago.

Yeah but don't forget, he had that ONE bad game against North so that's the yardstick we judge him on, not the other ten in which he's been consistently good.

Yes, but he only got 12 of those possessions in the last quarter when we were outscored 7.5 to zero.

You're obviously overlooking the fact that they were all "cheapies"

But he's not immune to playing in the seconds and neither should anyone else be.

Thought last week would have shown that to be the case, despite you telling us repeatedly that the veterans are untouchable.

 

[ChookNorris]

When he does that in the seniors, get back to me.

Stokes not even in the best with 32 soft touches

 

[ChookNorris]

"It's great he's gone back and played well," 35 poss ..... and after 9 in a quarter at AFL,....wish they all played that well!
I'm not saying rush him back but they're the best numbers by far, and what if he does it again next week, humble pie!

All you have offered in support is that Stokes gets high stats. Generally One two handballs backwards that slow our attack down. Does little defensively. Reason he is able to get high numbers is because opposition players let e him alone as he is so ineffective. Similar to that article on Lewis Taylor. Backwards and sideways. Uncontested.