Victorian Clubs "Drowning"

[Syd]

Good lord, here we go again!!!
Time for another Royal Commission to end the "interstate" dominance??

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-line-up-for-premierships-20140628-zspj5.html

So with the future flags 'sewn up' in other states, why does Niall choose to ignore how the majority of Victorian clubs find themselves in the bottom half of the ladder now, there own administrative ineptness and poor recruiting and player development.

Blame the nasty interstaters who are stealing "our game" Jake.

 

[JeffDunne]

You, like many franchise supporters, are an absolute hypocrite Syd.

Vic club struggles = incompetence.

AFL franchise struggles = not enough concessions.

Crap article not worthy of any more discussion. Your attempt to create another "AFL Franchise Victim" thread is a fail.

 

[Jam123]

The AFL did give GC and GWS everything to succeed, not to mention the Swans ability to get both Tippett and Buddy after winning a premiership. That's 3 interstate teams.

That being said, many of the vic clubs have themselves to blame. Port were a rabble a few years ago and are a premiership threat now.

 

[Syd]

You, like many franchise supporters, are an absolute hypocrite Syd.

Vic club struggles = incompetence.

AFL franchise struggles = not enough concessions.

Crap article not worthy of any more discussion. Your attempt to create another "AFL Franchise Victim" thread is a fail.

Morning Jeff

Disagree with your assesment of my viewpoint and I'm no 'Eddie' in the hypocrisy stakes.

Melbourne, Richmond, Carlton and The Bulldogs all show illustrative examples of poor recruiting and\or administration over the past few years likewise Brisbane at the moment and Adelaide throughout the entire Stephen Trigg fiasco. Please show me where I asked once for any of them to receive additional assistance.

I've publicly stated on numerous occasions here that I did not\do not agree with the CoLA in its current format (but did see a need for it for rookie listed and lower tiered palyers), and think the AFL went way too far in its concessions to GCS and GWS to the detriment of the entire competition.

And my take is not one of a "AFL Franchise Victim" viewpoint, more of another "Victorian Whingefest when things aren't going our way".

It gets tiring Jeff, its AFL not VFL

 

[Syd]

The AFL did give GC and GWS everything to succeed, not to mention the Swans ability to get both Tippett and Buddy after winning a premiership. That's 3 interstate teams.

That being said, many of the vic clubs have themselves to blame. Port were a rabble a few years ago and are a premiership threat now.

Please share with me how Hawthorn have been able to also recruit top line players after winning Premierships or in Lake's case, essential to winning one?

Agree on the first 2 though.

 

[Blues098]

Says the one who supports a team with a 9.8% advantage over the rest of the competition.

Give us Buddy and Tippet and we would be on dry land.

Teams like Bulldogs and Brisbane have been unable to address their problems because of all the concessions handed out. So yes, the AFL have handed those three teams the tools to dominate

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Ebbs and flows.

 

[Jam123]

Please share with me how Hawthorn have been able to also recruit top line players after winning Premierships or in Lake's case, essential to winning one?

Agree on the first 2 though.

Not sure about Hawthorn to be honest, but it is within the cap.

Without the COLA, I doubt the Swans would have been able to offer Buddy the 9 years and the money. He would probably still be at the Hawks or GWS.

 

[JeffDunne]

And my take is not one of a "AFL Franchise Victim" viewpoint, more of another "Victorian Whingefest when things aren't going our way".

It gets tiring Jeff, its AFL not VFL

What gets tiring Syd is when non-Victorians rabbit on about a collective Victorian mentality when it comes to football.

There isn't one. In fact it's quite the opposite.

St Kilda, Footscray, North, etc. see the big Melbourne clubs as a threat to their longevity more than they see anything outside Vic as a threat. Those clubs will wrap themselves in the Victorian flag when it suits their argument (especially biased opinion pieces from hacks like Jake) but use every tool at their disposal to undermine other Victorian clubs - including their disproportionate access to media outlets.

Who would be doing our bidding if we were in Essendon's position?

You really should be more selective in your criticism. Direct it to those that deserve it & leave the "Victoria is evil" conspiracies to the South Aussies (they do it better than anyone).

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Not to mention the soft draw Sydney plays (top 8 sides for the rest of the year and GWS twice), its not an 9.8% advantage, its 9.8% and 4 extra points a year....well if they had of won round one.....

Look at the Hawks draw for the rest of the year compared to Syd, pretty easy to see it.

 

[JeffDunne]

Says the one who supports a team with a 9.8% advantage over the rest of the competition.

Carlton at times have had a large % of their playing list on VISY contracts.

The handout Fat Andy gave Australia's biggest corporate criminal was as big a handout as an club has had in the past decade.

BTW, have Carlton paid the fine for their cap cheating yet?

 

[Darcy 2 Fyfe]

Please lets not confuse the likes of Freo, Port, Adel and WCE with GC and GWS here. The AFL have given all of us nothing, we just pay the licence fee and fly to Tassie, Darwin and play finals in Geelong. The most disadvantaged clubs in the AFL are Freo and WCE, clearly.

 

[Syd]

Not sure about Hawthorn to be honest, but it is within the cap.

Without the COLA, I doubt the Swans would have been able to offer Buddy the 9 years and the money. He would probably still be at the Hawks or GWS.

I never insinuated it was outside the cap.
The logical answer is that Lake (in this instance) took LESS money for MORE success.
Ergo, the little club losing valuable experience to a bigger club.
The new lay of the land in a post free angency world.

What gets tiring Syd is when non-Victorians rabbit on about a collective Victorian mentality when it comes to football.

Sorry Jeff, but I travel quite extensively and have yet to read the tripe like this dished up in the Adelaide, Perth or Brisbane dailies.
Only from the Victorian press, hence it is indeed a fair viewpoint IMO.

There isn't one. In fact it's quite the opposite.

St Kilda, Footscray, North, etc. see the big Melbourne clubs as a threat to their longevity more than they see anything outside Vic as a threat. Those clubs will wrap themselves in the Victorian flag when it suits their argument (especially biased opinion pieces from hacks like Jake) but use every tool at their disposal to undermine other Victorian clubs - including their disproportionate access to media outlets.

Agreed, see my post re: Hawthorn and Lake above (could add Gibson, Burgoyne, Gunston, Hale, etc) as well.
There will indeed be the haves and the have nots in Victoria thanks to free agency alloowing more freedom of movement, again, just one mans opinion.

You really should be more selective in your criticism. Direct it to those that deserve it & leave the "Victoria is evil" conspiracies to the South Aussies (they do it better than anyone).

I have been spending a lot of time in Adelaide (and Perth, and Brisbane) lately....

 

[Back Pocket Rocket]

Please share with me how Hawthorn have been able to also recruit top line players after winning Premierships or in Lake's case, essential to winning one?

Agree on the first 2 though.

Worst argument ever as Lake took a massive pay cut and Buddy signed a $10m deal! Anyone the Hawks have signed have been for slight unders and well within the cap!

 

[sherb]

BTW, have Carlton paid the fine for their cap cheating yet?

Yes, I believe we paid the fine.

We just haven't paid back the AFL loan.......

 

[Sebastian Balboa]

Ebbs and flows.

Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Syd]

Not to mention the soft draw Sydney plays (top 8 sides for the rest of the year and GWS twice), its not an 9.8% advantage, its 9.8% and 4 extra points a year....well if they had of won round one.....

Look at the Hawks draw for the rest of the year compared to Syd, pretty easy to see it.

Look at Sydney's run home in 2012
Its not a draw by the way, its a FIXture.
There's nothing equal or equitable, or even remotely random about it.
Schedule set by AFL to benefit big Vic clubs and blockbusters, 2x derbies in each state to promote locally and the rest is a compromise.

Also, how many times to Vic clubs get to play the Bulldogs, Saints or Demons twice?
Surely thats a bigger leg up than having 2x games against an AFL created 'superclub' over the coming years, let alone this year

 

[Syd]

Says the one who supports a team with a 9.8% advantage over the rest of the competition.

And how many of your flags were achieved paying 100% of the cap or less??

 

[Syd]

Worst argument ever as Lake took a massive pay cut and Buddy signed a $10m deal! Anyone the Hawks have signed have been for slight unders and well within the cap!

Actually, weren't both signed using the same FA rules?
Who's to say that Buddy wouldn't have signed anyways with the additional CoLA???
Who'd sneeze at a mere $9 Mil??

 

[Debris]

Long-term it is just a numbers game. Victoria needs to have about 4 times the supporter base of other states to remain competitive or accept that some clubs will always struggle. Salary cap helps a bit but unless you also have strict limits on off-field spending, there will be disparity in success. The AFL would never accept limits in off-field spending as that is essential to growth of the game.

 

[leeloo]

And how many of your flags were achieved paying 100% of the cap or less??

Well I don't think that Carlton have won any flags since they were caught cheating the salary cap. How many have Sydney won?

Edit: bad spelling!

 

[Debris]

Well I don't think that Carlton have one any flags since they were caught cheating the salary cap. How many have Sydney won?

2012. Buddy and Tippett were added after that so there must have been lots of money just sitting around unspent, right?

 

[leeloo]

2012. Buddy and Tippett were added after that so there must have been lots of money just sitting around unspent, right?

2005? No salary cap incentive then?

 

[Gods_Son23]

Thought this would be about north in the rain last night.

Was only a matter of time before this started which was rampant in the mid '00s from vic media. Even this seems early though given hawthorn just won the flag a few months back. I haven't seen a lot of articles bemoaning Victorian teams dominance over the last eight years when there has been one interstate winner and that was the team with assistance. And we all knew the chances of GWS and GC being a strong contender was more than likely. They are not comparable to the West Coasts and Brisbanes of the comp.

"Sydney should be Buddy confident of landing a flag, if not this year, then in 2015 or 2016." - Sydney have a handful of important older players. Jake predicting 3 years ahead calling them a contender is questionable, especially when things can turn around so quickly.

 

[dthom]

I really wish that the Victorian media wouldn't refer to the 'interstate' teams as a collective. Let's be very clear here, there is a big difference between the clubs from SA and WA compared to the clubs from NSW and QLD.