Society/Culture Violence in Society; Who is to blame?

[Raz0r6ack]

Nope.
who told you that?
Tessa?
Or just your misunderstanding of people who support women's rights?

Turns out, it isn't a my team vs your team thing. It's a humanitarian ideal, that everyone should be equal.

Tolerance and equality.
And intolerance for the intolerant. Nope, it's not hypocrisy.

 

[scon]

I thought men's rights didn't matter?

I thought you thought we thought that,not that we thought you thought that;but if that's what you think you're wrong there too.

 

[Floor Pie]

At least Floor Pie had the humility to admit he was in the wrong and apologise.

 

[smokingjacket]

Nice that you chose to illustrate your point with a gif of a woman who's recently been '**** shamed' online by the internet male.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

...

Yep, I am wrong for getting sucked into the bullying culture of this discussion. Don't act facetious and then call yourself an humanitarian though.

 

[Floor Pie]

Yep, I am wrong for getting sucked into the bullying culture of this discussion. Don't act facetious and then call yourself an humanitarian though.

*a humanitarian.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

This thread got took on more personal meaning tonight.

Part of me wonders whether the only thing that can deter these bloke is force.

When a bunch of blokes attack 2 women, because, well, there are only 2 of them, Im prepared to listen to an argument that they are beyond rehabiliative redemption and that meeting their 'force' with a stronger 'force' is necessary.

These weasels are a minority of men.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

“Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat.” - Hillary Clinton.

Who do you think feels more pain? A dead person, or the family that has just lost a loved one?

Her comment is wishy washy. But you trying to link it to a hatred of men is just psychotic!

So men are the primary victims of breast cancer? They lose their wives, mothers and daughters after all. Clearly they, like the female relatives of male war casualties, are secondary victims.

I can see why he used the Hillary Clinton quote. To me it shows an inability to empathise with male suffering.

 

[Floor Pie]

So men are the primary victims of breast cancer? They lose their wives, mothers and daughters after all. Clearly they, like the female relatives of male war casualties, are secondary victims.

I can see why he used the Hillary Clinton quote. To me it shows an inability to empathise with male suffering.

Inability to empathise??
And also.. how is that similar to hatred?


Here is the thing. I've already said the quote isn't amazing, but it's pretty obvious what she means. And it isn't that she hates men... Only a complete nut job would try to equate it to that!


I'm not going to get into some long drawn out debate over semantics. But your example is disingenuous. And you know full well.

Deaths that occur during a war vs deaths due to breast cancer... what do you think, on average, lasts longer and has more effect on the person? (Don't forget, once you're dead... you no longer suffer... or care).

Besides, men also suffer from breast cancer. It's not just, historically, American women who die from breast cancer... but it is, historically, American men who have died at war. (This is from the perspective of an American (Hillary), talking to Americans, in America... So they don't have to worry about too many civilian casualties from America.



So, is that what you were after? Did I help clear up your simple little problem?

 

[scon]

I worked on boats in the years when men were men.Rum,bum and gramophone records,there was no wine women and song.
A bloke went ashore to one of our Northern Isles.
His behaviour with a local woman was unacceptable.
We negotiated his release from the island.
He was consequently chained up and belted daily for a fair period.
Subsequently,whenever he saw any one of us he sort of twitched.
I guess this is relevant.

 

[Chief]

Anyway....

Californian blogger Anita Sarkeesian is one of the most famous cultural critics on the internet. Her Kickstarter to make a video series about “tropes vs. women in video games” was a huge success back in 2012 and raised much more than the $6,000 she had originally asked for. Her videos are some of the most thorough and well-researched examinations about gaming we’ve ever seen. It’s feminist criticism at its best: smart, witty, and intelligible to anyone who has spent time on YouTube.

http://www.vice.com/read/do-we-have...lly-killing-or-raping-a-feminist-activist-887

 

[Chief]

That is why I think it is at least equally important to prepare women for something they may potentially have to face in life; weather it be in a relationship or any other situation such as rape.

So self defence classes are as important as a society-wide rejection of aggression as a means of solving personal issues?

Actually you may have something.

Take all of the money out of prevention and prosecution and put it into training the female population in martial arts.

Oh s**t. That would be so ******* awesome. My sisters and my mother would be trained in martial arts on the public purse.

How much would that piss off the little mens rights dickheads!

 

[Chief]

I worked on boats in the years when men were men.Rum,bum and gramophone records,there was no wine women and song.
A bloke went ashore to one of our Northern Isles.
His behaviour with a local women was unacceptable.
We negotiated his release from the island.
He was consequently chained up and belted daily for a fair period.
Subsequently,whenever he saw any one of us he sort of twitched.
I guess this is relevant.

So rule of law is for sissies?

 

[Chief]

So men are the primary victims of breast cancer? They lose their wives, mothers and daughters after all. Clearly they, like the female relatives of male war casualties, are secondary victims.

I can see why he used the Hillary Clinton quote. To me it shows an inability to empathise with male suffering.

Link male pay rates to "support of one man, woman and two children" and a woman's rates to "support of one woman living with her parents while she waits to marry".

Yeah. History favours those bludging, ungrateful carriers of thrush.

 

[smokingjacket]

So men are the primary victims of breast cancer? They lose their wives, mothers and daughters after all. Clearly they, like the female relatives of male war casualties, are secondary victims.

I can see why he used the Hillary Clinton quote. To me it shows an inability to empathise with male suffering.

Hate to break the bubble by actually placing the quote in context but if the poster had left a couple of extra sentences in, the quote looks quite different.

Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.

Clearly Hillary Clinton was talking more to the fact that as in all wars, civilians bear the greatest burden of death and destruction. Women are usually at the front of this 'collateral' damage. So even if you want to paint it as a debate between being dead is worse than being left behind then even that is a fallacy as more civilians die in war than soldiers, with women making the larger proportion of this number.

However I don't take that at face value either. To fight as a male is to choose to fight. Our culture and nearly every culture that has come to dominate it's particular patch of dirt has built up some kind of cultural system to indoctrinate the concept of the glorious death on the battlefield. Even though many modern societies have reacted against the more jingoist elements of this culture it's still a pervasive thought. To die fighting is to die a man, with your sword in your hand before a grateful god. Many still think this way to a certain extent in a secular country like Australia and that's before we get to cultures with an even stronger glorious death theology like parts of the Islamic Middle East, warrior caste system India/South Asia, Maori culture and many others.

Here's another bit from just after the original out of context quote regarding domestic violence in Central and South America. Obscene stats and it's worth considering this from an international perspective if you think that the feminist movements work is done.

Throughout our hemisphere we have an epidemic of violence against women, even though there is no longer any organized warfare that puts women in the direct line of combat. But domestic violence is now recognized as being the most pervasive human rights violation in the world. Here in El Salvador, according to the statistics gathered by your government, 1 in 6 women have been sexually assaulted and the number of domestic abuse complaints at just one agency topped 10,000 last year. Between 25 and 50 percent of women throughout Latin America have reportedly been victims of domestic violence.

I don't think the "primary victims bit" was the best line she could have used but I can certainly see why she said it.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

So self defence classes are as important as a society-wide rejection of aggression as a means of solving personal issues?

Actually you may have something.

Take all of the money out of prevention and prosecution and put it into training the female population in martial arts.

Oh s**t. That would be so ******* awesome. My sisters and my mother would be trained in martial arts on the public purse.

How much would that piss off the little mens rights dickheads!

Men who do this stuff are beyond redemption.

Luckily most are weak as piss.

You give them a nice shot to the jaw, they'll think twice about doing it. Its the only way they'll learn.

 

[Floor Pie]

If you want to continue in this thread RisingPhoenix ?

Look at these absolute nutjobs..

http://radfemspeak.net/the-fury/

I want to see Jiska, Kidd Vicious, Bergram et al to come out and condemn that group.

As offensive as any 'MRA' material I've seen.

Worse in fact.

 

[Riseupaustralia]

*crickets* too busy crying elsewhere.

 

[cartwright]

Joshua hardy.
Violence in our society is a real issue.

 

[cartwright]

http://m.theage.com.au/lifestyle/ce...ence-against-women-essay-20141019-1189tu.html

Excellent points

Well worth a read.

http://whiteribbonblog.com/2014/04/17/the-danger-of-the-monster-myth/

 

[mottrain]

*crickets* too busy crying elsewhere.

You can talk.

 

[Riseupaustralia]

You can talk.

Talk about what, possum?

 

[Raz0r6ack]

You can talk.

You notice how you say something, one of them responds and they taking turns in liking eachothers posts? It's quite sad, but at the same time amusing.

 

[Riseupaustralia]

You notice how you say something, one of them responds and they taking turns in liking eachothers posts? It's quite sad, but at the same time amusing.

What are you on about?

He accused me of crying, and I would like to see when and where?

Nothing more.

Interesting that you take sides on this, as I have found your posts to be pretty reasonable overall. Whereas young mottrain here is firmly in support of tesseract , and in turn Paul Elam, and the lunatic fringe of the MRA movement, and their sickening views on rape, and women in general.

I am genuinely surprised.

 

[louismaxwell]

What are you on about?

He accused me of crying, and I would like to see when and where?

Nothing more.

Interesting that you take sides on this, as I have found your posts to be pretty reasonable overall. Whereas young mottrain here is firmly in support of tesseract , and in turn Paul Elam, and the lunatic fringe of the MRA movement, and their sickening views on rape, and women in general.

I am genuinely surprised.

You were accused of BULLYING and out of control behaviour , their was an appeal to the moderators to reign you in which they chose to ignore, count yourself lucky and reflect on your behaviour please.