Violence and intimidation (Discuss Penalties in the MRP thread)

[Gavin Excell]

Watching last nights game North v Hawks reinforced how intimidation is a key quality of successful teams.

Even in the more cleaned up modern version of the game , violence and intimidation or the threat thereof is still as relevant as it was in previous decades.

Last night hawks had a couple of reckless acts but it set the tone that North couldn't or weren't prepared to rIse up to. In a similar way, hawks in last years GF targetted Dan Hannerbury roughing him up (legally) and nobody from the Swans were able to fly the flag.

Not excusing Hodge and Lewis crude hits but the reality is that intimidation of the opposition in football is almost a necessary requirement for success as it has been and probably always will be.

 

[FISTO]

So performing dog acts without fear of reprisal from your opposition is a key to success?

 

[Chappycats]

I agree, cleaning up an opponent, legally, is still an important part of the game, and if you have players with that sort of mentality or hard edge I think can make a big difference to the teams overall performance.
When I played, early in the game if the opposition dropped a man back in front of our forwards, I would deliberately sit the ball above this players head so a forward could crunch into him, all legal going for the mark of course. After a few goes sitting in front of the pack they would generally stop or go half a**ed for the rest of the game, if they weren't injured

 

[Gavin Excell]

So performing dog acts without fear of reprisal from your opposition is a key to success?

Not dog acts but being physically intimidating is a key yes. Im not justifying it but its hard to argue otherwise.

 

[hench]

My Lions weren't exactly cleanskins during the premiership years.

 

[Chappycats]

So performing dog acts without fear of reprisal from your opposition is a key to success?

I agree they were dog acts last night but you can still ruffle up the opposition legally as well. Some blokes thrive on it, others go missing. Look at how easy Creepy Crowley got under SJ's skin and put him off his game.

 

[Gavin Excell]

My Lions weren't exactly cleanskins during the premiership years.

A great example. Hard and could hurt.

 

[Bluelegs]

People, especially within the media love to get on their pedestal and claim how horrid thuggery is in our sport but the fact is almost every premiership side has it to varying degrees.

The irony of the attitude against violent acts in our sport is that many thuggish players who were suspended a multitude of times throughout their careers now hold senior media roles and slam the very acts they were committing on field in their time.

Matthew Lloyd, Campbell Brown, Dermott Brereton, Cam Mooney, Barry Hall, Mark Mcclure, Wayne Carey, Luke Darcy, Leigh Matthews, David King, and Brian Taylor just to name a few.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

So performing dog acts without fear of reprisal from your opposition is a key to success?

They weren't dog acts ffs. Seriously any time there is an incident these days, it's deemed as a dog act. Some people need to understand players do stupid things at times, it happens, they aren't dog acts. In fact, I'd like an explanation of what constitutes a dog act, just so I can join in the chorus whenever a reportable incident occurs.

In regards to the OP, it's 100% correct. All of the very best sides had that intimidation factor. The Hawks sides of the 70s and 80s, Essendon of the 80s and in 2000, north through their reign in the 90s, brisbanes great sides, the cats to a lessor extent through their peak and now us, they all had that hurt factor in their teams. Blokes that weren't afraid to hit blokes hard, mostly fairly occasionally unfairly. It's the last part of the mental side, in the it's saying not only can we beat you, we can literally beat you too.

 

[Andrew Mc]

They weren't dog acts ffs.

Swinging elbow to the face is a dog act in anyone's book.

 

[MinerBoy]

People, especially within the media love to get on their pedestal and claim how horrid thuggery is in our sport but the fact is almost every premiership side has it to varying degrees.

The irony of the attitude against violent acts in our sport is that many thuggish players who were suspended a multitude of times throughout their careers now hold senior media roles and slam the very acts they were committing on field in their time.

Matthew Lloyd, Campbell Brown, Dermott Brereton, Cam Mooney, Barry Hall, Mark Mcclure, Wayne Carey, Luke Darcy, Leigh Matthews, and Brian Taylor just to name a few.

Don't forget David King. His knee slide in to the Swans player in 1996 GF was pretty crude. He's no clean skin.

 

[Bluelegs]

Don't forget David King. He's knee slide in to the Swans player in 1996 GF was pretty crude. He's no clean skin.

I actually had his name there but I think I edited it out accidentally.

 

[I am Jack]

My Lions weren't exactly cleanskins during the premiership years.

Neither were Geelong really. Mooney, Bartel, Johnson, Chapman, Scarlett, Milburn. These guys could play rough when they needed.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hodge set the tone last night.

People can squeal about what a dog he is, and so on, but at the end of the day there are plenty of clubs who actually need a captain who throws his weight around when someone tries to man-handle him or his teammates.

I'm looking at you Marc Murphy.

North of the 90's would beat up on teams, Brisbane certainly did and Hawthorn play their best footy when they're right on the edge.

Nice guys finish last.

 

[00Stinger]

So performing dog acts without fear of reprisal from your opposition is a key to success?

90% of the game is mental! and Hawthorn just exposed a big weakness in the Roos game

 

[00Stinger]

Neither were Geelong really. Mooney, Bartel, Johnson, Chapman, Scarlett, Milburn. These guys could play rough when they needed.

Bartel?

 

[Wild Bill]

My Lions weren't exactly cleanskins during the premiership years.

Either were the Roos in the 90's. The best have that ability to rattle a side.

Hodge and Lewis over stepped the mark last night. They should be embarrassed. Hawks are a tough side - their actions were weak however.

 

[SA HAWK]

Either were the Roos in the 90's. The best have that ability to rattle a side.

Hodge and Lewis over stepped the mark last night. They should be embarrassed. Hawks are a tough side - their actions were weak however.

Unfortunately i have to agree.

You need to be aggressive like we were in last years gf but last night was unacceptable.

 

[Milanista28]

I love stuff like that from the captain.

When Matthew Lloyd smashed Sewell it won us the game, It was beautiful and one of my favorite acts from Lloydy.

 

[SA HAWK]

I love stuff like that from the captain.

When Matthew Lloyd smashed Sewell it won us the game, It was beautiful and one of my favorite acts from Lloydy.

 

[The Darkman]

Something has to be done after Luke Hodge and Jordan Lewis' disgraceful attacks on Andrew Swallow and Todd Goldstein respectively last night at Etihad. I believe in intimidation of the opposition as long as it is within the rules of the game. Shoulder bumping. Hard tackles. Shepherding.

It was obvious North Melbourne's effectiveness was decreased after these incidents and action should have been taken straight away as a deterrent. Hodge's elbowed Swallow was a retaliation to being roughed up earlier. Poor Luke was on the receiving end of some treatment from a guy smaller than him and Jordan Lewis was trying to decrease Goldstein's superiority in the ruck. Whilst they are likely to be suspended (4 matches for both at least), it is little consolation to North Melbourne in last night's match.

Some of the solutions I have thought of include:

1. Send off the offenders (like the rugby codes) and the offending team will play the remainder of the game a player short;
2. Remove the offending player from the interchange decreasing the interchange to 2. The coach then has the decision to either remain on 2 interchanges or substitute the dismissed player out of the game using the substitute;
3. Remove the offending player from the interchange for a set period of time subject to the umpire's discretion. This would be the most difficult punishment to implement as it would be difficult to obtain an exact measure of either game time or time expired. 20 minute quarters that go for 34 minutes. So, I would 'sin bin' an offending player for entire quarters starting the next quarter;
4. Penalise the offending team with 2 point blank goal shots. One goal is not enough after last night's display; or
5. A combination of the above.

After the game, the MRP can review the incidents and decide if the punishment was sufficient or if the offending player(s) should be further punished. This way the non offending team can be compensated during the game, the offending player's punishment can be finalised and the offending team's upcoming opponents can plan for the fixture and not worry about having their leading players fouled.

I would also ban offending players from contacting their 'victims' until final judgement has been completed. Last night's vision showed Luke Hodge talking to Andrew Swallow after the match. Whilst shaking hands after a match is a long held tradition, it could be viewed by some as Hodge 'making a case' as he would be aware of his predicament.

Any thoughts?

 

[ManWithNoName]

Hodge set the tone last night.

People can squeal about what a dog he is, and so on, but at the end of the day there are plenty of clubs who actually need a captain who throws his weight around when someone tries to man-handle him or his teammates.

I'm looking at you Marc Murphy.

North of the 90's would beat up on teams, Brisbane certainly did and Hawthorn play their best footy when they're right on the edge.

Nice guys finish last.

And where's Hodge going to be when he's needed to throw is weight around over the next 2-3 weeks?

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Hodge set the tone last night.

People can squeal about what a dog he is, and so on, but at the end of the day there are plenty of clubs who actually need a captain who throws his weight around when someone tries to man-handle him or his teammates.

I'm looking at you Marc Murphy.

North of the 90's would beat up on teams, Brisbane certainly did and Hawthorn play their best footy when they're right on the edge.

Nice guys finish last.

Spot on. Paul Roos often makes the point, the style of footy is always changing but the one thing that remains constant is that the hardest and toughest teams always win.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Something has to be done after Luke Hodge and Jordan Lewis' disgraceful attacks on Andrew Swallow and Todd Goldstein respectively last night at Etihad. I believe in intimidation of the opposition as long as it is within the rules of the game. Shoulder bumping. Hard tackles. Shepherding.

It was obvious North Melbourne's effectiveness was decreased after these incidents and action should have been taken straight away as a deterrent. Hodge's elbowed Swallow was a retaliation to being roughed up earlier. Poor Luke was on the receiving end of some treatment from a guy smaller than him and Jordan Lewis was trying to decrease Goldstein's superiority in the ruck. Whilst they are likely to be suspended (4 matches for both at least), it is little consolation to North Melbourne in last night's match.

Some of the solutions I have thought of include:

1. Send off the offenders (like the rugby codes) and the offending team will play the remainder of the game a player short;
2. Remove the offending player from the interchange decreasing the interchange to 2. The coach then has the decision to either remain on 2 interchanges or substitute the dismissed player out of the game using the substitute;
3. Remove the offending player from the interchange for a set period of time subject to the umpire's discretion. This would be the most difficult punishment to implement as it would be difficult to obtain an exact measure of either game time or time expired. 20 minute quarters that go for 34 minutes. So, I would 'sin bin' an offending player for entire quarters starting the next quarter;
4. Penalise the offending team with 2 point blank goal shots. One goal is not enough after last night's display; or
5. A combination of the above.

After the game, the MRP can review the incidents and decide if the punishment was sufficient or if the offending player(s) should be further punished. This way the non offending team can be compensated during the game, the offending player's punishment can be finalised and the offending team's upcoming opponents can plan for the fixture and not worry about having their leading players fouled.

I would also ban offending players from contacting their 'victims' until final judgement has been completed. Last night's vision showed Luke Hodge talking to Andrew Swallow after the match. Whilst shaking hands after a match is a long held tradition, it could be viewed by some as Hodge 'making a case' as he would be aware of his predicament.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts are that you've completely lost the plot.

I mean, do you even know what this thread is about? Did you even read the OP?

And here you are advocating rule changes and sin bins......

 

[Bluelegs]

Hodge set the tone last night.

People can squeal about what a dog he is, and so on, but at the end of the day there are plenty of clubs who actually need a captain who throws his weight around when someone tries to man-handle him or his teammates.

I'm looking at you Marc Murphy.

North of the 90's would beat up on teams, Brisbane certainly did and Hawthorn play their best footy when they're right on the edge.

Nice guys finish last.

Agreed. My own team has been too soft and too nice for far too long. For years we were the 'bruise free' team and got constantly beat up by stronger opposition who only needed to make a couple of digs into our players to cripple us mentally.

Whether or not this is a false dawn for us is still up for argument but last week and throughout all of the start of this year I saw Melbourne players who were willing to put work into their opposition and really make them feel the rigors of AFL. Bernie Vince threw himself into other players, Jesse Hogan crashed packs and threw defenders off the ball, and Nathan Jones drove players into the dirt in his tackles. Even in round 1 Viney stopped Ablett early by slamming his shoulder into the ground. If you can't set the tone physically in games then you won't win when it counts. A few suspensions here and there is a small price to pay for a premiership down the track.