No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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efcboy said:
The AFL was guessing when handing down those penalties - there was no evidence of cheating and the afl tribunal cleared EFC of cheating (no banned substances given to players).

A penalty in keeping with governance should have been a fine only and at least 10 other clubs should have been penalised on a sliding scale depending on level of incompetence.

Losing draft picks should only be applicable for cheating (ie banned substances being given).

Finals being stripped is complete madness - 3 years on no definitive proof of cheating. The afl guessed and handed down the harshest penalty in history on an assumption. This itself is poor governance.

No penalties should have been handed down until ASADA completed their investigation. The afl and ASADA are the reason this has dragged on 3 yrs and EFC continue to be punished for the incompetence of afl and ASADA.
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efcboy said:
This is a massive rant and an over reaction. Every mug on the street wants to talk about Essendons poor governance blah blah blah. 50 injections? So what - nothing wrong with injections or amount of injections. Nick Riewoldt would be having around 400+ injections. It's what is in the syringe that counts - Nothing else - to date the afl and ASADA cannot prove that anything banned or harmful was given to players. They beated the drum about aod9604 for 12 months or more before giving it the all clear... The afl, ASADA and Switkowski (urged on by Evans and demetriou) exaggerated the governance issue. Hawthorn had a far more systematic injection program (swept under carpet), so did Collingwood, west coast and others. Does this make it right? No but all these people saying how bad EFC were get real. I work in healthcare and majority of public and private hospitals are poorly managed. Understaffed, overworked nurses, poor handovers, lack of documentation and nurses asking patients what drugs they need is an every day event. I've been on both sides of the equation - patient, relative of patient, healthcare professional and currently medical goods supplier. For the general community to throw the book at Essendon and in particular Hird is a joke. I've worked at many of the major hospitals, major medical device manufacturers/distributors and seen poor management and governance across the board.

The AFL set the standards or lack thereof. They had a compliance program across the competition. Across the competition prior to 2013 not one team complied with that program and the afl did nothing. Every club and player were supposed to document and submit to the afl what they were administered with. Not one club complied with this. Brett Clothier and Peter Harcourt were asleep as were their managers. What do they - pin it on one club to save their own hides. The most poorly governed organisation in all of this was actually the afl - the hypocrisy of them to issue the governance penalty is actually comical.
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Is it actually out there that Pies. Hawks etc run pretty dodgy Programs or did you hear this from a close source? i know up to 12 clubs were investigated or more like swept under the carpet. i think what went on was piss poor on Essendon's part but do think the penalties handed out were harsh. Fine yeah but i agree the Afl s**t themselves thinking we definitely took PEDS and would of looked bad us making the finals.
 
THOMO_31 said:
Is it actually out there that Pies. Hawks etc run pretty dodgy Programs or did you hear this from a close source? i know up to 12 clubs were investigated or more like swept under the carpet. i think what went on was piss poor on Essendon's part but do think the penalties handed out were harsh. Fine yeah but i agree the Afl s**t themselves thinking we definitely took PEDS and would of looked bad us making the finals.
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Well you only had to read Sam Lanes article re Hawthorn leading the sports science race...and as for Collingwood I know a member of their coterie group who is doctor who says they were doing similar things and the afl is a joke.
 
efcboy said:
Well you only had to read Sam Lanes article re Hawthorn leading the sports science race...and as for Collingwood I know a member of their coterie group who is doctor who says they were doing similar things and the afl is a joke.
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it that case makes it even more a farce!! and to let Melbourne & GC of scot free was a disgrace too. GC have a player who should of been charged and swept that under the carpet....
 

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ManWithNoName said:
If you're both okay with everything that happened at our club during that period as long as nothing illegal was taken, then full power to you. But I'm not. And I assure you I'm not the only one.
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Wow... No one is saying that what we did or didn't do in 2011 and 2012 was OK. What people are saying is that what punishments we received were commensurate with cheating and, to date, we have been found not guilty of cheating.
 
efcboy said:
Well you only had to read Sam Lanes article re Hawthorn leading the sports science race...and as for Collingwood I know a member of their coterie group who is doctor who says they were doing similar things and the afl is a joke.
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What does that article prove exactly? They were doing injection/supplement programs. Good for them. Difference between them and us (presumably) was it was adequately controlled by the club. And records were kept about what the players were given.
 
THOMO_31 said:
Is it actually out there that Pies. Hawks etc run pretty dodgy Programs or did you hear this from a close source? i know up to 12 clubs were investigated or more like swept under the carpet. i think what went on was piss poor on Essendon's part but do think the penalties handed out were harsh. Fine yeah but i agree the Afl s**t themselves thinking we definitely took PEDS and would of looked bad us making the finals.
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In other words we got caught with the Hot potato.

I know there were many rumours about Collingwoods dodgy program during their 2010 grand final campaign.
 
ManWithNoName said:
What does that article prove exactly? They were doing injection/supplement programs. Good for them. Difference between them and us (presumably) was it was adequately controlled by the club. And records were kept about what the players were given.
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AFL Official Website said:
MORE than 200 sports scientists and medicos have heard that players from nine AFL clubs have independently sourced supplements.

AFL medical officer Dr Peter Harcourt made the revelation to doctors, physiotherapists and sports scientists during Grand Final week.

He was quoting from an AFL survey - conducted following the release of the Australian Crime Commission's Drugs in Sport report - which also revealed that club documentation of player supplement use was "inadequate".

The supplements survey also found that 12 clubs conducted programs with medium or high levels of supplement use and lacked "a single point of accountability".

source: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-15/afl-no-needles-policy
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Come on mate...

Players sourcing supplements themselves?

No single point of accountability?

We weren't the only ones. It was all just a game of musical chairs with Stephen Dank and we happened to be the one without a chair when the music stopped. AFL was being brought to it's knees due to drug allegations against one club. Imagine if they performed thorough, open investigations against every club Dank has worked with.

source: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-15/afl-no-needles-policy
 
Dank is the main factor in this discussion?
He became disgruntled with the accusations which moved him to take a personal approach?
This didn't help us?
If it was all 'legal' according to protocols put in place by AFL, ASADA etc. well I get that.
But, the cost?
Maybe he produces documentation that exonerates us?
That would look bad for the administration who have dealt us the blows?
The cost so far has been huge!
ALL WE WANT IS THE FULL TRUTH!
Indulge me, and the other clubs records to be scrutinised!?
 
ManWithNoName said:
What does that article prove exactly? They were doing injection/supplement programs. Good for them. Difference between them and us (presumably) was it was adequately controlled by the club. And records were kept about what the players were given.
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You can't categorically state that programs run by other clubs were adequately controlled, without seeing full documentation.
 
yaco55 said:
You can't categorically state that programs run by other clubs were adequately controlled, without seeing full documentation.
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Hence "presumably".

What I can categorically state is that our program wasn't. Which is really all I'm interested in.
 
ManWithNoName said:
What does that article prove exactly? They were doing injection/supplement programs. Good for them. Difference between them and us (presumably) was it was adequately controlled by the club. And records were kept about what the players were given.
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No AFL club adequately controlled their program given none of the clubs prior to 2013 complied with the afl policy of submitting complete records of what players were administered. Zero compliance for supplements programs across the league...
 

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efcboy said:
No AFL club adequately controlled their program given none of the clubs prior to 2013 complied with the afl policy of submitting complete records of what players were administered. Zero compliance for supplements programs across the league...
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Thats a big statement.
You have proof no doubt?
 
ManWithNoName said:
What, seriously?

Ziggy's report?
The fact our club has admitted there are no records?
The fact our club has admitted it wasn't adequately controlled?

Shall I go on?
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Billion dollar man runs the club! Pushed around? I think not?
Ziggy??? Please.
We weren't well controlled is looking like 'How long is a piece of string'.
Unveil other clubs???
Just hold on until it all unfolds.
Good for us.
 
JayDon said:
Billion dollar man runs the club! Pushed around? I think not?
Ziggy??? Please.
We weren't well controlled is looking like 'How long is a piece of string'.
Unveil other clubs???
Just hold on until it all unfolds.
Good for us.
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I'm not even sure this is in English.
 
scezza surely You're The Voice needed here
 
I wish someone could make it clear.

(Whoooaaaaahohohohohohaahoahaa)
 
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