No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[yodellinhank]

Yup, it was folly, it was wrong, and no he didn't get to go down that path (which hindsight clearly informs us doesn't exist... hindsight) but he was fought (and you can debate whether it was right or wrong to do so) internally and that narrative was terminated in infancy by Hird/Watson/etc.

People delight in pointing out, though, that Gil and Vlad were at his birthday party. What they miss is that Heppell, Goddard, and others were there too.

All I'm saying is that to focus on getting the players out even if it is at the expense of club legend Hird (who mind you, Evans had moved heaven and earth to get the coaching job anyway) is, without hindsight, not necessarily the worst path to take, if you can do it. If the players were clear, absolutely in the clear now then it would be worth _______. You name it. They are the, um, "genuine" victims as you'd have it.

Forget the fact it was Hird who was supposed to take the fall. $2m, first round draft picks for 2 seasons. It has completely ****ed us going forward.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Forget the fact it was Hird who was supposed to take the fall. $2m, first round draft picks for 2 seasons. It has completely stuffed us going forward.

If those things had happened and the players had got off we'd be much better off now.

In fact, all the caterwauling and grandstanding from Hird and co really amounted to... not much? No real net change, just another ordeal of a season in 2015 where the coach, surprise surprise, continued to be the story and created another conduit for undue pressure on the club and the players. Even Watson breaking ranks on the AOD thing on OTC amounted to little because the AFL media machine is immense and omnipotent and will stop at nothing to win. Perhaps an acknowledgement of that fact might have been wiser than the whole (horrendously expensive) Spartacus routine.

 

[yodellinhank]

If those things had happened and the players had got off we'd be much better off now.

In fact, all the caterwauling and grandstanding from Hird and co really amounted to... not much? No real net change, just another ordeal of a season in 2015 where the coach, surprise surprise, continued to be the story and created another conduit for undue pressure on the club and the players. Even Watson breaking ranks on the AOD thing on OTC amounted to little because the AFL media machine is immense and omnipotent and will stop at nothing to win. Perhaps an acknowledgement of that fact might have been wiser than the whole (horrendously expensive) Spartacus routine.

If Hird's wish to go to court earlier was granted then we'd be much better off now. If this, if that. The fact is Evans actions didn't help us one bit. It put us in a terrible position even now.

Evans was happy for us to front up, be the face of it and eventually cop the biggest whack in history. We served the league and his mates and took all the pressure off other clubs by compounding it on ourselves.

 

[DonsRule]

I think LN had a point.

If Hird stood down, I think far less damage would have been done. But I think it shows how the AFL and the media machine gets away with it too.

While I do tink Hird was within his right to stand his ground and do as he did, it made he and the club a bigger target for not complying. I think certain things allowed the AFL to single Hird out too in main.

I almost think if Hird stood down when Vlad said, he could well still be coaching, without all the constand pressure that was thrown his way the last few years.

I think it shows too, despite everyone complaining how the AFL works, they accept it when it suits. No one trust the AFL in this investigation. But the one who has had the most damage to their name - and some of it is deserved I should add is Hird - the one person that did not want to stand in and play his role in the AFL story,

Hird is still the 'bad' one for not playing the company line, despite of often people complaining about they way said company operates.

This escalated when Hird refused to walk.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Just to be clear, I don't begrudge Hird for fighting, but I think he realised too late how major the concession was being a part of that first press conference. I think it's incredibly easy for us with the possession of hindsight and different context to identify what is right and what is wrong but in the heat of the moment that is less apparent.

To that end, Evans should never have been chairman, and then beyond that he should have seen the complexity and problem with having the senior coach be a good friend of his. As The Straight Dope mentions, Hird was untouchable and unquestionable within the football department chiefly because he had a direct line to a sympathetic ear at the very top. Combine that with Hird's natural dogged tenacity and it's going to be difficult to get any genuinely constructive criticism in there. Thompson's appointment was meant to counter that but to merely do that is to underestimate Hird's drive and vision, which is rather silly because it was amply demonstrated on a football field for over a decade.

At the end of the day though, if you present this scenario with all the facts, the correct option isn't necessarily to burn one friendship and double-down on the other (and let us not forget that Ron wasn't just an Essendon man, he was very much an AFL man and a significant influence on Vladimir... take that or leave it), the best thing he could have done was to turn against both and extricate himself from those conflicts that made it impossible to manage the scenario itself. In a way, and this is perhaps a bit perverse and odd, but Evans should have resigned as it unfolded - cowardice perhaps but the position was untenable anyway. It's only through a sense of duty to the playing group that he did stay and did try (and fail, yes) to manage it.

 

[Mercurial89]

I don't hate Evans.
He did what I think a lot of people would have done, he was under immense pressure, as shown by how badly his health failed him when the crisis was at its peak. I would never want to be in that position because I can sit here honestly and say I have no idea whether I would have the courage and morals to go to war with the AFL either.

Now that being said, I don't hate him but I don't respect him either (which im sure he gives exactly no s**t about). I do pity him, it must be very hard to be challenged and be found wanting, to not have the courage to do what is right whatever the cost. But im not going to sit here and think that I can do much better than him.

The only issue I have with Evans is that even now he has not said a word in relation to it all, however I totally understand that is probably on behest of his lawyers.
Its why I respect Hird, he did everything he could to try and do the right thing ( I don't accept throwing himself to the media and taking all blame like he was expected to do as correct) and the guy has pretty much lost everything. But I respect him for not budging on what he believed in.

Evans it seems didn't have the courage to do that. But what do I know really, im just a guy on the net.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

I think LN had a point.

If Hird stood down, I think far less damage would have been done. But I think it shows how the AFL and the media machine gets away with it too.

I almost think if Hird stood down when Vlad said, he could well still be coaching, without all the constand pressure that was thrown his way the last few years.

I think it shows too, despite everyone complaining how the AFL works, they accept it when it suits. No one trust the AFL in this investigation. But the one who has had the most damage to their name - and some of it is deserved I should add is Hird - the one person that did not want to stand in and play his role in the AFL story,

Hird is still the 'bad' one for not playing the company line, despite of often people complaining about they way said company operates.

This escalated when Hird refused to walk.

 

[yodellinhank]

It was unfortunate for Evans that he became the AFL's agent by accident, but this is the way they work. And when he had a choice to make between defending the club or looking after the interests of the rest of the league he took the second option. West Coast, Geelong, Gold Coast, Melbourne etc all showed their appreciation of this by stripping us of our draft picks.

I have often said there is no way Collingwood would ever have put their players in the position of answering questions about the colour of viles etc without their first being evidence that put them on the hook. Evans allowed the stitch up.

 

[JayDon]

AFL went after EFC with Hirdy as the main target (Tall Poppy for community to dislike).
However, as we have wondered all along...why us?
Nathan Bock exit!?
2 x Collingwood players guilty, but nothing in the way of club or coach attack!?
Ahmed Saad - 'Gatorade'= 2 years.
Now WC...no culpability for those in charge!?
Maybe I'll follow the illuminati conspiracy theory now!?
Looking forward to Brisbane being challenged over their blood doping practices!?
Please let those at the AFL and in the media who attacked us relentlessly feel the same negative forces directed at them!?

 

[MarkG]

AFL went after EFC with Hirdy as the main target (Tall Poppy for community to dislike).
However, as we have wondered all along...why us?
Nathan Bock exit!?
2 x Collingwood players guilty, but nothing in the way of club or coach attack!?
Ahmed Saad - 'Gatorade'= 2 years.
Now WC...no culpability for those in charge!?
Maybe I'll follow the illuminati conspiracy theory now!?
Looking forward to Brisbane being challenged over their blood doping practices!?
Please let those at the AFL and in the media who attacked us relentlessly feel the same negative forces directed at them!?

All of what u say is true. But we were viewed as a regimented peptide taking regime supported from the coach all the way down that ALL players were requested to participate in. Bit different to a random person here and there.

 

[Its Manbearpig]

Dear oh dear Ings


So looking at show causes here for the Eagles. Given banned substance in 06?

Bye bye flag

I use Prednisolone!
Kills asthma attacks.

 

[DapperJong]

I use Prednisolone!
Kills asthma attacks.

Same. For crohns flare ups. It's catabolic.

NOT anabolic.

Meow meow meow

 

[MarkG]

I use Prednisolone!
Kills asthma attacks.

And this guy Ings was the head of ASADA. Yes it's banned, no it's not, yes it is, I think. So I made a mistake!

 

[Harlequin]

And this guy was the head of ASADA.

Who BombersFan93 ?

 

[windyhill]

if your club president is unsure of what is happening then we might as well run the joint from fogdog's garage.

The boss is always last to know. This is true, as sure as night follows day.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Holy s**t Batman, Caro has an article attacking Daniel Chick.

Like clockwork.

 

[fishardansin]

I think the issues with Evans was him siding with the AFL in the naive hope they could make it go away if we sacrificed Bambi. He was stupid and from my point of view should have circled the wagons and given no comment interviews. It would have gone away by now. We should have been suing anyone printing anything slightly liable and demanding a hearing before any sort of punishment.

Evans also was against standing down the guys the previous year because it made it harder to beg for the flight plan.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[vast]

Holy s**t Batman, Caro has an article attacking Daniel Chick.

Like clockwork.

So Worsfold is city hall endorsed. Good to know.

 

[fishardansin]

So Worsfold is city hall endorsed. Good to know.

He fits the "anyone but Hird" criteria.

 

[yaco55]

I think LN had a point.

If Hird stood down, I think far less damage would have been done. But I think it shows how the AFL and the media machine gets away with it too.

While I do tink Hird was within his right to stand his ground and do as he did, it made he and the club a bigger target for not complying. I think certain things allowed the AFL to single Hird out too in main.

I almost think if Hird stood down when Vlad said, he could well still be coaching, without all the constand pressure that was thrown his way the last few years.

I think it shows too, despite everyone complaining how the AFL works, they accept it when it suits. No one trust the AFL in this investigation. But the one who has had the most damage to their name - and some of it is deserved I should add is Hird - the one person that did not want to stand in and play his role in the AFL story,

Hird is still the 'bad' one for not playing the company line, despite of often people complaining about they way said company operates.

This escalated when Hird refused to walk.

Two separate issues - Once Evans agreed to a joint investigation the die was cast - Legal fraternity was certain the joint investigation was illegal, WADA was unhappy with the joint investigation, and unfortunately the AFL fell out with ASADA - The die was cast.

Hird standing down seemed a good idea at the time - Fact is it was separate from ASADA.

 

[IggypopsTshirt]

Same. For crohns flare ups. It's catabolic.

NOT anabolic.

Meow meow meow

Crohn's represent!

 

[yodellinhank]

All of what u say is true. But we were viewed as a regimented peptide taking regime supported from the coach all the way down that ALL players were requested to participate in. Bit different to a random person here and there.

Whereas Geelong just took Amino acids.

 

[fishardansin]

Two separate issues - Once Evans agreed to a joint investigation the die was cast - Legal fraternity was certain the joint investigation was illegal, WADA was unhappy with the joint investigation, and unfortunately the AFL fell out with ASADA - The die was cast.

Hird standing down seemed a good idea at the time - Fact is it was separate from ASADA.

ASADA probably didn't like the AFL leaking and manipulating, however, they thought the joint investigation was the bomb. It's what allowed them to force answers.

 

[Pweter]

I use Prednisolone!
Kills asthma attacks.

Same. For crohns flare ups. It's catabolic.

NOT anabolic.

Meow meow meow

40 - 50mg?

 

[DapperJong]

40 - 50mg?

To be honest it's been a while since I took it. From memory, I started at 50mg when it was really bad and weened off it for about 6 weeks.

For flare ups, maybe start at 25mg.

It sure as hell does the job.