Oppo Camp WADA appealing Essendon decision

vinum coupe

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Nope, I attacked the process and expressed my extreme dissatisfaction at the three year diversion which has smeared not just the EFC but the AFL and its constituents. I also put forward a suggestion to avoid such future PR disasters. What did you do?

Well "sick and tired" you do not have to read my comments do you? Your circular reasoning does you proud, however proof by assertion is not evidence. The AFL is not FIFA nor is it an unnamed "international sport" taking bribes from Russia - unless you have another assertion? The reality is that the use of banned substances has not only increased since the AFL joined WADA, but such is its prevalence that we had Ryan Crowley taking banned substances during the Essendon fiasco, such is the contempt for WADA.
There will always be one.
There just should never be 34.
 

Catastic82

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If you know they lied then you should provide your evidence to WADA and get them again.

If you had read the summary from WADA Jobe and the other 34 were caught out on their llying to ASADA and WADA on their testing papers not once but 30 odd times.

They all declared they had taken nothing on their papers, despite the injection regime going in full swing; and despite Jobe and co admitting they took AOD on national TV.

If they were as innocent as they are declaring themselves why did they not declare the drugs or injection regime?

They knew wheat they they were doing and tried to cover it up along with the club.

Guilty as sin
 
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Go Hoops

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Well "sick and tired" you do not have to read my comments do you? Your circular reasoning does you proud, however proof by assertion is not evidence. The AFL is not FIFA nor is it an unnamed "international sport" taking bribes from Russia - unless you have another assertion? The reality is that the use of banned substances has not only increased since the AFL joined WADA, but such is its prevalence that we had Ryan Crowley taking banned substances during the Essendon fiasco, such is the contempt for WADA.

What a laughable post. You make a comment about lack of proof then post comments full of fabrication.

No one knows the extent of drug taking in the AFL. Not even the clubs because of the AFL policy of non disclosure until strike 2. So your "assertion" it has increased is pure fabrication.

Plucking out one example and linking it to greater prevalence is so silly even a primary school student would see how nonsensical that is.

I didn't post links about the corrupt former President of the IAAF because anyone with an elementary interest in problem of drugs in sport would be well aware of it. Which says heaps about you. Some links - though I doubt you will read then:;)

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/07/sebastian-coe-lamine-diack-iaaf-doping-bribery

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-10/russian-athletes-at-the-centre-of-doping-scandal/6928426

https://theconversation.com/athleti...spark-radical-rethink-on-drugs-in-sport-50376

Thank goodness for WADA otherwise much of this corruption would not have been uncovered.

Obviously the AFL is not FIFA. I used FIFA as an example of how corruption takes over slack organisations.

Only people who can't see the wood for the trees advocate sporting bodies policing their own as being preferable to independent bodies doing it. Sporting bodies main interest is in protecting their brand.
 

steady2

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If you had read the summary from WADA Jobe and the other 34 were caught out on their llying to ASADA and WADA on their testing papers not once but 30 odd times.
I am not sure what summary you are referring to. Perhaps you do not understand the process. WADA acted as prosecution in these proceedings while it was the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) which reached conclusions and imposed decisions including suspensions of the players. I could find no mention of the players being "caught out lying" in the Arbitral Award founded by the CAS, perhaps you can refer me to it? Which section?
They knew wheat they they were doing and tried to cover it up along with the club.
Guilty as sin
Your comments sound more like a personal belief built on spite rather than on the facts of the case. It seems they probably did use banned substances and are paying the penalty, whether they did so knowingly and with deceit in mind is yet unproven.
 

steady2

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No one knows the extent of drug taking in the AFL. Not even the clubs because of the AFL policy of non disclosure until strike 2. So your "assertion" it has increased is pure fabrication.
You appear confused between the ban on performance enhancing drugs such as Thymosin TB-4 which is what the WADA case was about and the AFL's Illicit Drug Policy which concerns the use of illegal drugs such as ice, cocaine, marijuana etc.
What a laughable post. You make a comment about lack of proof then post comments full of fabrication.
So what did I fabricate?
Plucking out one example and linking it to greater prevalence is so silly even a primary school student would see how nonsensical that is...I didn't post links about the corrupt former President of the IAAF because anyone with an elementary interest in problem of drugs in sport would be well aware of it. Which says heaps about you.
Oh dear, someone a bit sensitive on this matter? I do not understand how any Cat supporter can be so concerned over a different opinion on a matter which has nothing to do with our club and players. The off-season getting to you? Same here, can't wait for round one.
Thank goodness for WADA otherwise much of this corruption would not have been uncovered.
WADA has not uncovered any corruption regarding the topic we are discussing.
Obviously the AFL is not FIFA. I used FIFA as an example of how corruption takes over slack organisations.
I am glad you understand that.
Only people who can't see the wood for the trees advocate sporting bodies policing their own as being preferable to independent bodies doing it. Sporting bodies main interest is in protecting their brand.
Ah the old 'Argument from Personal Incredulity Fallacy', you may as well have said "Anyone who disagrees with me is ignorant". Although protecting their brand may include strict oversites regarding the abuse of performance enhancing substances and severe penalties. I have no problem with either the AFL doing it, or arranging another independent body. I have a major problem with WADA as primarily they took three years to reach the situation we are in and our league's image is under the pump.
 

Catastic82

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I am not sure what summary you are referring to. Perhaps you do not understand the process. WADA acted as prosecution in these proceedings while it was the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) which reached conclusions and imposed decisions including suspensions of the players. I could find no mention of the players being "caught out lying" in the Arbitral Award founded by the CAS, perhaps you can refer me to it? Which section?

Your comments sound more like a personal belief built on spite rather than on the facts of the case. It seems they probably did use banned substances and are paying the penalty, whether they did so knowingly and with deceit in mind is yet unproven.
http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...al-claim-for-essendon-34-20160124-gmd82d.html
"The 34 players knew what they were doing," he said.

"They actually signed a statutory declaration – they took an oath which carries a criminal penalty for failure.

"In fact, we had a NSW former federal court judge who did two-and-a-half years' jail for signing a false statutory declaration. They are the consequences of taking an oath.

"They signed declarations, so they can't say they didn't know they were doing something.

"And surely they didn't think they were doing that to whiten their teeth – getting all those injections."

Jobe went on national TV and told everyone that he was told about the "good" and "bad" Thymosin ( as well as AOD which wasn't declared to ASADA) yet this "good Thymosin" he knew about wasn't 'good' enough for him or his mates to declare to ASADA.

They had 30 separate chances to declare to ASADA about the 'safe and legal' "good Thymosin" that they'd signed up for, and were being injected with.

The safe and legal Thymosin that they described as feeling like having concrete injected into your bum.

However they just continued injections , yet declining to declare to ASADA that they were having them.
 

Farmer2Goggin

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. I have a major problem with WADA as primarily they took three years to reach the situation we are in and our league's image is under the pump.

Unless I've missed something WADA only became involved once the AFL Tribunal made it's decision.
The WADA and CAS component went relatively quickly once WADA appealed the decision.
Blame a combination of ASADA , Essendon FC and the narcissist for the vast majority of the 3 years ;)
 

steady2

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http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...al-claim-for-essendon-34-20160124-gmd82d.html


Jobe went on national TV and told everyone that he was told about the "good" and "bad" Thymosin ( as well as AOD which wasn't declared to ASADA) yet this "good Thymosin" he knew about wasn't 'good' enough for him or his mates to declare to ASADA.

They had 30 separate chances to declare to ASADA about the 'safe and legal' "good Thymosin" that they'd signed up for, and were being injected with.

The safe and legal Thymosin that they described as feeling like having concrete injected into your bum.

However they just continued injections , yet declining to declare to ASADA that they were having them.
There is nothing you have provided including reference to a newspaper article which supports your claim that a "WADA summary" claims the Essendon players lied.
 

steady2

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Unless I've missed something WADA only became involved once the AFL Tribunal made it's decision.
The WADA and CAS component went relatively quickly once WADA appealed the decision.
Blame a combination of ASADA , Essendon FC and the narcissist for the vast majority of the 3 years ;)
Since the AFL signed up in 2005 the process established under WADA has been the one we had to put up with for the last three years. Firstly the AFL had its turn in investigating and handing out penalties, WADA was not happy so their Aussie Branch ASADA had a go, when WADA still did not get the finding they wanted they brought out their big guns. The CAS case was the culmination of decisions that WADA did not like under the WADA process which has been forced on the AFL. Since nobody is claiming performance-enhancing drug abuse was prevalent pre-WADA I suggest we go back to that system, at least it will be quicker.
 

Catastic82

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There is nothing you have provided including reference to a newspaper article which supports your claim that a "WADA summary" claims the Essendon players lied.
So you don't think signing stat declarations and not declarinfg the listed drugs on ASADA testing papers is lying? Which was all documented in the CAS summaries?

Nothing stopping you from going to the HTB board and reading the CAS summaries... You can even google it.

Try and use some critical thinking next time
 

steady2

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So you don't think signing stat declarations and not declarinfg the listed drugs on ASADA testing papers is lying? Which was all documented in the CAS summaries?

Nothing stopping you from going to the HTB board and reading the CAS summaries... You can even google it.

Try and use some critical thinking next time
I have read the CAS summaries and recommended it. I asked you to refer to which section claims the players lied, you have not. There is a difference between knowingly providing disinformation and unknowingly doing so, that is one of the players defense. "Try and use some critical thinking next time" I see you cannot resist the use of meaningless ad hominem rather than logic.
 

Ricketz

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I have read the CAS summaries and recommended it. I asked you to refer to which section claims the players lied, you have not. There is a difference between knowingly providing disinformation and unknowingly doing so, that is one of the players defense.

Unknowingly? Rubbish. All AFL players know their obligations. Their failure to declare was a lie. If you are taking two substances and say you are only taking one, that is a lie. The truth is, the team (even those players who didn't take injections) colluded to obscure and cover up the program, whether by failure to declare the substances under their obligations to ASADA/WADA, failure to disclose to the club doctor, or failure to report the injections were being taken by other players to the AFL. You can be as soft as you like on these cheats, but you won't convince me and many others that they were harshly dealt with.
 
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Turkey is a bit strange like that. Gallipoli is still regarded as part of the "Middle Eastern Theatre" of operations.

Yes, funny that isn't it ?

The more I think of that game, the more I think it should be shared with others teams.

I see there is media speculation about a player appeal on the CAS verdict.
I can't see anything coming of that though.
 

vinum coupe

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Turkey is a bit strange like that. Gallipoli is still regarded as part of the "Middle Eastern Theatre" of operations.
Ha ha ha .
I heard someone suggest elsewhere that Pakistan was Middle East.
It's Asia. I really didn't like geography at school, but due to current events, it probably needs to be intensified at school.
 

AlcoaCat

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Ha ha ha .
I heard someone suggest elsewhere that Pakistan was Middle East.
It's Asia. I really didn't like geography at school, but due to current events, it probably needs to be intensified at school.
That's the problem with Geography. Thailand, where I lived for ages, is the "Far East" to the Great Unwashed, but feels like the centre of all possible worlds when you live there Turkey is definitely Asia/Europe on the maps we are familiar with, but for whatever reason, its still the Middle East in war records.

Whatever. We're ace at dying in foreign campaigns, the point of the original post.
 
That's the problem with Geography. Thailand, where I lived for ages, is the "Far East" to the Great Unwashed, but feels like the centre of all possible worlds when you live there Turkey is definitely Asia/Europe on the maps we are familiar with, but for whatever reason, its still the Middle East in war records.

Whatever. We're ace at dying in foreign campaigns, the point of the original post.

Yes.

But there are no ''Non foreign" Campaigns to really speak of are there ?

Way off topic. Essendon should lose that ANZAC day game :thumbsdown:
 
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