No Oppo Supporters WADA Megathread - talk about it all in here

[S120]

robbieando nailing the facts.

I can't see the AFL leaving WADA for exactly the reasons. The AFL is cashed up and wealthy but they aren't that wealthy that they'd voluntarily forgo funding for stadia that governments provide them and if they left WADA, that's what they'd lose immediately.

And the AFLPA would have to let the players know that they're pay will decrease and no PA would be comfortable doing that and be confident they'd keep their jobs. If we had a league run by billionaire owners like America has, we'd have a very very different situation to face currently. But in absence of that, I can't see how it would happen.

 

[connolly]

Damages for negligence is not an equitable remedy, it is a common law remedy so your maxim would not apply.

I understand that but I believe there was no negligence. The players could attempt an equitable action for unconscionable conduct by Essendon. They could seek aggravated damages also. One small problem. They were complicit. Hence the maxim. The whole "legal action " noise is an attempt by the AFL and players association to circumvent WADA by providing a pretext for a monetary settlement for the drug cheats. This is unbelievable given that the AFL rigged their own Tribunal. Now they are blathering about rejecting WADA, preparing to pay the players and assisting Essendon to compete!! Fitzpatrick bears the responsibility for all this. I have been previously punted out of bounds here for referring to Fitzpatrick's previous corporate history. But check it out. Says it all.

 

[connolly]

They'd approach it as a breach of contract occurred. One way or another a legal argument can be made.

The players breached their contract by taking a prohibited substance. Try this argument on the railways. Driver - 'YES I had amphetamine in my system. But my boss told me to take it". Well that's OK then. Sue the railways. Whaaaaaaaaaaaat.

 

[connolly]

robbieando nailing the facts.

I can't see the AFL leaving WADA for exactly the reasons. The AFL is cashed up and wealthy but they aren't that wealthy that they'd voluntarily forgo funding for stadia that governments provide them and if they left WADA, that's what they'd lose immediately.

And the AFLPA would have to let the players know that they're pay will decrease and no PA would be comfortable doing that and be confident they'd keep their jobs. If we had a league run by billionaire owners like America has, we'd have a very very different situation to face currently. But in absence of that, I can't see how it would happen.

We are sponsored by Volkswagon. Does the incompetent AFL reckon that large multi-national sponsors would touch a non-WADA drug supervised sport? Would QBE an insurer be comfortable with a party to party negotiated drug supervision deal? We don't have billionaire owners but we are run by a blowhard from Broadmeadows - the messiah for morons.

 

[Number37]

I understand that but I believe there was no negligence. The players could attempt an equitable action for unconscionable conduct by Essendon. They could seek aggravated damages also. One small problem. They were complicit. Hence the maxim. The whole "legal action " noise is an attempt by the AFL and players association to circumvent WADA by providing a pretext for a monetary settlement for the drug cheats. This is unbelievable given that the AFL rigged their own Tribunal. Now they are blathering about rejecting WADA, preparing to pay the players and assisting Essendon to compete!! Fitzpatrick bears the responsibility for all this. I have been previously punted out of bounds here for referring to Fitzpatrick's previous corporate history. But check it out. Says it all.

The club owed them a duty of care and clearly breached that duty, the case for negligence is pretty clear. In their defence the club can raise contributory negligence, this would mitigate the club's compensatory damages but the scope for exemplary damages is boundless.

It would be a pretty easy argument for misrepresentation in relation to the waivers the players signed given that the club is on the record as stating they don't know what the players were given. If you don't know how can you be sure it is legal?

They'd approach it as a breach of contract occurred. One way or another a legal argument can be made.

The scope of damages for breach of contract are limited to the contractual amount. If you want to get more than that the requirements are onerous ( Wagon Mound #2 case)

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

This is correct. The only damages available (assuming they continue to get paid) are those for pain and suffering.

 

[legend166]

I understand that the AFLPA are there for the players and will back them but he can't be that naive to think that CAS will look at the matter differently to the AFL "Independent" Tribunal. Yesterday also wasn't the day for the bashing of WADA and to suggest the AFL should do an NFL and withdraw from it - sounds OK but in practice you would bid farewell to the new Perth Stadium, St Kilda moving back to Morrabbin, the Hawks getting the Dingley tip and the AFL funding for Auskick. Government funding would stop and the players cut of the pie would be eaten into so that won't happen

You'd also see me stop following the sport.

Any move to leave the WADA code is a greenlight for doping.

 

[replicant]

Essendon faces revenge of players - including Port’s Monfries and Ryder - suspended due to doping conviction

BANNED AFL stars including Port Adelaide’s Patrick Ryder and Angus Monfries, made football outcasts by Essendon’s drugs disgrace, are poised to mount a group court action against the club.

The bitter fallout of the Court of Arbitration for Sport issuing 34 current and former Essendon players with 12-month bans for doping violations in 2012 will escalate this week.

The AFL’s new pariahs are consigned to the stands across all levels of competitive sport this season. Affected clubs such as Port are canvassing legal options.

It is understood that some former Essendon players no longer on AFL lists are today in the process of finalising action against the Bombers.Current Essendon players could also support legal action.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

BANNED Essendon players are threatening to sue the AFL and Essendon unless they are paid up to $50 million compensation, as Bombers captain Jobe Watson says the players would explore all avenues.

“The decision announced by the Court of Arbitration for Sport to uphold WADA’s appeal is devastating,” Watson said in a statement.

“Our legal team is conducting a thorough review of the decision and will explore any avenues available to us.”

Agents and the AFL Players Association met later to thrash out a plan to push for payments for the 34 players.

Veteran agent Peter Jess called for the league to set up a welfare fund, particularly for the players no longer on the Bombers’ list.

He said the players could otherwise sue the AFL, the AFL Commission and Essendon for $30-40 million for breaching their duty of care.

“However, we are still doing the maths on that, so it could be as high as $50 million.

“The psychological impact from all this has been enormous, and now it’s moved to the financial impact,” Jess said.

“The 12 blokes who are still there get paid. The 17 who are not on a list don’t get anything and are in limbo.

“We need to act as a collective and make sure we understand the value. I would rather settle than (sue),” he said.

We'll see i guess.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

We are sponsored by Volkswagon.

And that there is still a potential monster headache for us. If things pan out as badly as they might for VW with their emissions cheating activities, it might be that we're forced to drop THEM as a sponsor.

Sorry, bit off topic, but a reminder that modern big bucks sport is a mine field.

 

[MarkP]

I still don't get why there is even the argument that the AFL should part ways with WADA. If you don't take banned substances, you don't have to deal with them right? SO DON'T BE A DICK AND TAKE BANNED SUBSTANCES!

That is basically the crux of the matter.

Decide if you want to be a "clean" sport or simply say hell no and the guys can do what they want and then have whatever consequences flow from there.

I was pretty disgusted to hear the calls to drop from WADA. All WADA did was look impassionately and without bias at a set of facts. Hardly their faults the Drugiies doped players.

The lack of self awareness and self accountability in this case from so many players, club members, coaches and AFL administrators is astounding. I really don't get it.

 

[Mister B]

The AFLPA's argument would be they get to "collectively bargain" what drugs should and shouldn't be on an AFL anti doping list if they left WADA. Would become a pretty simple list to manage and they would be targeting a majority of the drugs we don't want is our sport. But as seen in the NFL (where the idea comes from) testing is easy get around so much so that players forget to lay off the weed for a few days before match days in case they are tested because they are too addicted and get busted and the PA leave out drugs like HGH which should be banned. They also control the length of bans and have even softened the length of bans because a 4 week ban was too long for a first offence

So yeah the AFLPA can see the benefits but the AFL has so much government funding they can't just give up because they aren't the NFL with billionaire owners to help cover the loss

That's what scares me the most about it coming from the AFLPA. It screams of "please find a way that we can more effectively sweep stuff like this under the carpet".

As MarkP said, the lack of self accountability from so many parties is dumbfounding. From an outsiders perspective, the way the statement read from Watson that they still claim they are innocent despite having no idea what was put into them, that club must have had such a cult like environment. I find it really disturbing. Surely the players themselves must have read the findings and evidence multiple times by now. How can they sit there and read a text message conversation from the man responsible for their injections that includes the phrases "used in elite horse racing, not tried in humans, let's trial it on a couple of players" and still be comfortable with that. It's just madness.

 

[MarkP]

Well you can feel for the players.

I mean I am struggling to think of another case of any high profile sportsman that has ever been found to have taken drugs and stuff and been caught so it is not like this issue would have been discussed in AFL briefings, inductions or in general in the sporting world. Like when has any award or title or anything been taken off a sports-person retrospectively with new evidence coming to light.

What bad luck this came out the blue like this. Guess someone had to be the first.

I must admit when I was growing up I never gave a thought to the bi-weekly injections my under 13's coach and "medical" staff gave me. I thought it was just hard training that made me a 100kg sub 10 second 100 metre runner at that age.

 

[Mister B]

Well you can feel for the players.

I mean I am struggling to think of another case of any high profile sportsman that has ever been found to have taken drugs and stuff and been caught so it is not like this issue would have been discussed in AFL briefings, inductions or in general in the sporting world. Like when has any award or title or anything been taken off a sports-person retrospectively with new evidence coming to light.

What bad luck this came out the blue like this. Guess someone had to be the first.

I must admit when I was growing up I never gave a thought to the bi-weekly injections my under 13's coach and "medical" staff gave me. I thought it was just hard training that made me a 100kg sub 10 second 100 metre runner at that age.

The sarcasm in this... Beautiful

 

[Lakeside Swan]

The players have no grounds to sue anyone. They were complicit. They cheated.

My legal understanding is that they would have to prove that they didn't know what they were taking (or thought they were taking something else) and were effectively tricked into taking it. As much as I would like to see Essendon go into liquidation I think that any legal action would be unlikely to be successful.

 

[Lerch]

Absolutely filthy that they will be rewarded with the the first pick. Especially considering we where banned from trading for following the rules.

 

[mtooler]

The club owed them a duty of care and clearly breached that duty, the case for negligence is pretty clear. In their defence the club can raise contributory negligence, this would mitigate the club's compensatory damages but the scope for exemplary damages is boundless.

It would be a pretty easy argument for misrepresentation in relation to the waivers the players signed given that the club is on the record as stating they don't know what the players were given. If you don't know how can you be sure it is legal?



The scope of damages for breach of contract are limited to the contractual amount. If you want to get more than that the requirements are onerous ( Wagon Mound #2 case)

Wagon Mound isn't a word I've heard for near 12 years haha.

 

[connolly]

This is correct. The only damages available (assuming they continue to get paid) are those for pain and suffering.

They CANNOT be paid under WADA rules. That is why we have this nonsense regarding suing. The players and the club were in a joint enterprise to cheat. Any money going to drug cheats out this would be outrageous.

 

[Number37]

They CANNOT be paid under WADA rules. That is why we have this nonsense regarding suing. The players and the club were in a joint enterprise to cheat. Any money going to drug cheats out this would be outrageous.

But par for the course with the AFL...

 

[connolly]

And that there is still a potential monster headache for us. If things pan out as badly as they might for VW with their emissions cheating activities, it might be that we're forced to drop THEM as a sponsor.

Sorry, bit off topic, but a reminder that modern big bucks sport is a mine field.

VW also used slave labour in WWII. I guess if we can overlook that some emission difficulty shouldn't prevent much of a ethical problem

 

[MickyG]

One thing no one here has said, from what I read is Essendon were actually fined by workplace (or whatever the government agency is in vic for safe workplace practices) for unsafe work conditions.

The players deserve their bans from the evidence that is out there, but the staff at Essendon lied/misled the players into believing what they were doing we above board and had unsafe work conditions.

Yes the Essendon players are guilty and rightly suspended. From what Essendon has done, the players in my view have a right to sue the Essendon football club, that is if they have evidence.

It will probably be the time we see the real evidence in the case.

I can't help but think it will never see a courtroom and we won't see any more of the evidence. The Switkowski report and the Workcover fine is surely sufficient evidence for the players to take action. Add in the soccer team that had all the deformed babies and there's no way the AFL or Essendon will want to appear. They will be very motivated to settle out of court. By the way I don't like the idea of the players getting anything (including getting paid) as I think they were very complicit but I suspect they have a good case and will get paid off which getting paid while suspended is all about trying to minimise.

 

[MarkP]

They CANNOT be paid under WADA rules. That is why we have this nonsense regarding suing. The players and the club were in a joint enterprise to cheat. Any money going to drug cheats out this would be outrageous.

They will go there - no problem at all. They essentially allowed Hird to pick up a million in hush money. The players will get heaps by any means necessary over the next few years.

Still spewing we follow the rules and get hammered and these guys flaunt every rule up to and past common decency and are being held out as victims by the ruling body. It is close to insufferable.

 

[sataris]

I'm waiting for Hird to sue Essendon.

Can't believe the AFL didn't turn on Essendon, it would have been so much simpler and better for the image of the game.

 

[doona]

I can't help but think it will never see a courtroom and we won't see any more of the evidence. The Switkowski report and the Workcover fine is surely sufficient evidence for the players to take action. Add in the soccer team that had all the deformed babies and there's no way the AFL or Essendon will want to appear. They will be very motivated to settle out of court. By the way I don't like the idea of the players getting anything (including getting paid) as I think they were very complicit but I suspect they have a good case and will get paid off which getting paid while suspended is all about trying to minimise.

Well said.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/afl/a/30566332/banned-bombers-can-walk-out-on-club/\

All 12 suspended players still at Essendon will have the power to declare themselves de-listed free agents and walk out on the embattled club for a new AFL home after receiving year-long doping bans.

A court battle will be less likely now.

However I think the players no longer in the AFL system will sue. The AFL players will get paid their contracts, where as players getting paid to play/coach in minor leagues may loose their entire income.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

They CANNOT be paid under WADA rules. That is why we have this nonsense regarding suing. The players and the club were in a joint enterprise to cheat. Any money going to drug cheats out this would be outrageous.

They are employees. They will be paid.

 

[scaryness]

Would love to get Hurley or Hooker if they walk out on Essendon.