Test Rugby Wallabies Rugby World Cup discussion

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Vegeta said:
The next generation looks good enough to keep it up for another decade.
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I think you'll still beat us more often than not, but I can't see this dominance continuing; unless you've got another McCaw and Carter in the wings - and I mean for their culture and leadership.

Vegeta said:
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So much fail.

lol............................................................................................................................................................
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SBW, surely!!

;)
 

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Lol predictable LP1. Cooper isn't the reason we lost. I think if you take away the yellow card, which was unfortunate, that he didn't play that bad given the amount of pressure he was under by an AB's side going forward. He made a few mistakes but also did some good things and his goal kicking was very good. But 10 is a worrying position for us for sure. Quade struggled last night, Foley was worse last week and even Toomua was bad last night. Their 2nd and 3rd tries coming after poor, unnecessary kicks from him. I think maybe 10 Toomua 12 Giteau could be the best combination, but I'm also worried Toomua could be too conservative.

I think we probably would have lost anyway but the biggest problem was our pack, and I think Cheika will now know for sure that in the big games Skelton should be on the bench and that Hooper and Pocock need to start together at 7 and 8. Palu was poor.

Disappointing performance. The AB's were very good after they scored that first try. Funny to think that Dan Carter was under all this pressure going into the match but he definitely answered his critics.
 
The pack got smoked. After having the upper hand last week, they got decimated by a hungry AB's side desperate to send Carter, McCaw, Smith off and back to their highly active and explosive best.

Hopefully that has cleared up a few things in the pack. Pocock and Hooper start, Skelton off the bench, Palu nearly done for.

Horwill played another good game, he's really impressing me after I thought he was cooked. He and Fardy were probably our best forwards. Folau good again and was pretty much the only back to have an influence.

Our lock stocks were my big concern a month ago but they seem fortified with Horwill, Mumm and Skelton playing decently at least and very well at best over the RC comp. Simmons will be back soon and now Douglas has played too (did a couple of nice, aggressive things).

Now the real concern is fly half and half back. We don't have any one man bashing the door down to take either jumper and that isn't a great position to be in with the RWC a month away.
 
Well, at least one question was answered - White or Phipps? The answer is Genia.

When Genia plays he is so much faster than the other two - it makes it hard for Cooper or any fly-half to do anything when you receive the ball at the same time as a 16-stone fire-breathing All-Black travelling at 100 Ks arrives in your face. The No 1 priority between now and the WC is Genia's fitness.

I think Cooper has all the tricks - but he needs time. Sure, play him against Namibia, Whereverstan and the other no-hopers and he'll dominate. But he doesn't get the time against the better sides.

I think Chieka was playing a bit of silly buggers - he'll play Hooper and Pocock together in the big games at the WC. He won't play Cooper. Skelton will go back to the bench.
 
Genia has been pretty average for 2-3 years. He had a poor super rugby season and looked okay, but not great against South Africa a few weeks ago. Phipps made a big difference in terms of speed when he came on in that game. If you could combine Phipps urgency and speed around the park with White's pass we'd be doing alright.

I think it was definitely a mistake not having a halfback reserve last night. We've really benefited from having a fresh halfback come on with 20 minutes to go to up the tempo in every other test. Genia's chances will probably depend on whether Cheika picks 3 or only 2 halfbacks in the world cup squad.
 
Hahaha keep defending your lover boy Cooper. He was horrendous. Yellow card (should have been red) was typical of his performance. Passes over the sideline, crabbing across field, doing nothing.

Genia is worse, and we do not need him back. Was half the reason we sucked so much in the first 65 minutes against SA. Can't run anymore.

Foley at 10, and I honestly would try Beale at 12 or I'm happy with Toomua who is solid, nothing more nothing less.
 
You keep ignoring the fact that Foley was actually worse at 10 last week than Cooper was this week. And that was despite playing behind a forward pack that was dominant. Check out the player rankings from hundreds of people on greenandgoldrugby and you'll see that this is a pretty common view.

I am no huge fan of Cooper, as I've said a couple of times now I would lean towards playing Toomua/Giteau at this stage at 10/12. But especially after seeing his goal kicking performance I would have Cooper ahead of Foley at this stage. I think it's a shame we never got to see Lealiifano get a crack at 10. It's probably too late now, though maybe still possible that he could come into the world cup squad.
 
Foley was bad but he provides structure, something Cooper has no idea about. Cooper is all about himself, who cares about the team. Glad he was rubbish, might stop us picking him.

I would like to try Beale at 12 with Foley personally. I agree on Lilo though. I would have given him a go.
 
LukeParkerno1 said:
Foley was bad but he provides structure, something Cooper has no idea about. Cooper is all about himself, who cares about the team. Glad he was rubbish, might stop us picking him.

I would like to try Beale at 12 with Foley personally. I agree on Lilo though. I would have given him a go.
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That's bullshit, Cooper is actually big on the team; he's nothing like you'd expect him to be, in person.

He was crap last night, but, as others have pointed out, our forwards got bullied by the ABs, and Cooper never got going as a result.

That is a concern in itself; most decent 10s will look good with time/space and a dominant forward pack - if we don't have that, then Cooper is a liability.

We need a 10 who can be creative and steady with a forward pack losing, Cooper might be best used off of the bench, when the packs are tired.

We've got solid options at 10; 9 is our biggest concern. Same as the above - if our scrum half is only potent when our forwards are dominating, it's a massive problem.

Pocock and Hooper are a no brainer, but I think everyone knows that. Hopefully those two fix a lot of those problems; better at the breakdown, quick recycling, better for the backs.
 
King Elvis said:
That's bullshit, Cooper is actually big on the team; he's nothing like you'd expect him to be, in person.

He was crap last night, but, as others have pointed out, our forwards got bullied by the ABs, and Cooper never got going as a result.

That is a concern in itself; most decent 10s will look good with time/space and a dominant forward pack - if we don't have that, then Cooper is a liability.

We need a 10 who can be creative and steady with a forward pack losing, Cooper might be best used off of the bench, when the packs are tired.

We've got solid options at 10; 9 is our biggest concern. Same as the above - if our scrum half is only potent when our forwards are dominating, it's a massive problem.

Pocock and Hooper are a no brainer, but I think everyone knows that. Hopefully those two fix a lot of those problems; better at the breakdown, quick recycling, better for the backs.
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So I must have been watching a different game when Cooper made comical mistakes all night, threw balls over the sideline when we had field position. Quade only cares when it is him looking good, doing ridiculously low percentage football. Give me a fly half that is solid thanks, and for the record that is not me wanting Foley 100%, I just want someone who passes well, doesn't go for low percentage plays and kicks well in general play, might be Toomua, might be Lilo, might be Foley. 1 of those 3 is fine.

Cooper is a liability and he can look good against poor sides but get him against a good side and he falls to water most times.

Phipps and White are a decent combination, regardless of who is starting. Would lean towards Phipps starting as I feel White is the more dynamic 9 and could be used off the bench.

Last nights match we were mauled at the breakdown and we leave our best pilferer on the bench in Pocock...it was the absolute definition of insanity.
 

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Bomberboyokay said:
Can you expand on this? I may go there next year.
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I say this obviously because we haven't beaten the hosts there for 29 years.

I reckon if we're due to play in NZ twice next year for the FN/Bledisloe, then what should happen is we play the AB's in any two of Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Hamilton or Rotorua. Anywhere but Eden Park!!!
 
OK. So with the Bledisloe and RC both done, what are people's ideal 23 going into the game in Chicago against USA? It could be that you want to experiment more or you want to play our best side to prepare for the RWC or trial some more combinations. Remember that our first two games are against the relative minnows of our group in Fiji and Uruguay with our game against England not until the beginning of October. That may alter your decisions or not, just something to consider.

Anyway, here's mine for the America match. I'm going mainly the 23 I perceive to be our best but with a few dabblings as well.

1. Scott Sio
2. Stephen Moore
3. Greg Holmes
4. Rob Simmons
5. Kane Douglas
6. Scott Fardy
7. Michael Hooper
8. David Pocock
9. Nick Phipps
10. Matt Toomua
11. Drew Mitchell
12. Matt Giteau
13. Tevita Kuridrani
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper
15. Israel Folau

16. Tatafu Polota-Nau
17. James Slipper
18. Sekope Kepu
19. James Horwill
20. Ben McCalman
21. Will Genia
22. Bernard Foley
23. Kurtley Beale
 
It's very hard - it all comes down to the halves - scrum and fly. We have the forwards and outside backs to compete with anyone. The problem is - our main ball-handlers need to be set, in form, and firing. Right now - we are taking guesses. All candidates have had good moments and shockers. We haven't played with a set combination for a few weeks in a row.

I think Chieka has to make the call now, and go with the set combination - whatever it is. The guys need a solid month's practice.
 
I wouldn't count Fiji as a minnow. They're very strong everywhere except the front row. Top level professionals in every position. They play England in the opening match and then us 5 days later, so they will be battle hardened but we will be fresh. I think we should win but wouldn't count the game as a gimmie.

Against the US I'd want to give playing time to a few guys who haven't played much recently and to others in positions we might need them to cover. Will have to see the final squad first but something like:

1. Slipper
2. Polota-Nau
3. Faulkner
4. Simmons
5. Douglas
6. Mumm
7. Pocock
8. McCalman
9. Genia
10. Toomua
11. Mitchell
12. Giteau
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. Speight
15. Beale

16. Hanson
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Horwill
20. Palu
21. Phipps
22. Foley or Cooper
23. Folau

That's assuming no new players come into the squad.
 
LukeParkerno1 said:
Apart from being horrific in 90% of games in the last 12 months what has Genia done to deserve a spot? Phipps was bad, but he was still better than Genia, ditto White.
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That's a team to play the USA and it assumes Cheika decides to take 3 halfbacks to the world cup. If he only takes 2 then he probably won't be there. But if it is 3 then he'll be in the squad and in that case I think it's important to give him some game time. You don't want to get to a quarter final and have to bring someone in who hasn't played at all for 2 months. The only other chance to play fringe squad players is against Uruguay. Every other game should be the best team.
 
Maester said:
That's a team to play the USA and it assumes Cheika decides to take 3 halfbacks to the world cup. If he only takes 2 then he probably won't be there. But if it is 3 then he'll be in the squad and in that case I think it's important to give him some game time. You don't want to get to a quarter final and have to bring someone in who hasn't played at all for 2 months.
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I would rather have 2 halfbacks and Giteau as the utility/halfback as the 3rd option. 3 halfbacks is a waste. 1 of them won't play.
 
Genia will be on the plane to England. Ditto Cooper. I think Phipps will be the starting scrumhalf with Genia on the bench. White vs. an extra forward/back is a line ball decision. I would be inclined to take 3 scrumhalves, just to be safe. I don't think having a McMahon/Douglas in the squad will make much difference.

Cooper did his chances no harm IMO. Yellow card was unfortunate, but did little wrong in terms of his defensive position. I'd still have Cooper as the starting flyhalf for the World Cup. Toomua cost us the game with some horrendous kicking.
 
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The risk with 2 halfbacks is if someone goes down the day before a game they can't be replaced in time. You can only replace a squad member after 48 hours notice. I think we suffered a bit from not having a proper halfback on the bench on the weekend. And it would have been worse if White had got injured early in the game and Gits had to play there for the majority. Giteau hasn't got a good enough pass to play considerable time at halfback. It's doubtful whether he has the fitness either. That said, I wouldn't be completely surprised if Cheika takes the risk.

Btw, here is a possible starting line up for Fiji. It's an indication that we can't take that game for granted.

1. Yanuyanutawa (Glasgow Warriors)
2. Koto (Narbonne - French D2)
3. Saulo (Timisoara - pro Romanian club)
4. Cavubati (Ospreys)
5. Nakarawa (Glasgow Warriors)
6. Waqaniburotu (Brive)
7. Qera (Montpellier)
8. Yato (Clermont)

9. Matawalu (Bath)
10. Matavesi (Ospreys)
11. Nadolo (Crusaders)
12. Botia (Stade Rochelais)
13. Goneva (Leicester Tigers)
14. Nayacalevu (Stade Francais)
15. Talebula (Bordeaux)

That is a gun backline and strong back 5 in the forwards. Plenty of depth in the outside backs and backrow as well. A little weak in the front row and they don't have great depth in the halves, but at full strength they are a threat to anyone.
 
It'll be interesting to see the 31 man squad Cheika picks on Friday. Curious as to whether Cheika will put out a surprise as the squad based on the last few games really picks itself.

Loosehead Prop: Sio, Slipper, Smith
Hooker: Moore, TPN, Hanson
Tighthead: Kepu, Holmes
Locks: Horwill, Simmons, Skelton, Mumm
Backrow: Pocock, Hooper, Fardy, McCalman, Palu
Scrumhalf: Phipps, White, Genia
Flyhalf: Cooper, Foley
Inside: Giteau, Toomua
Outside: Kuridrani
Wings: AAC, Speight, Mitchell, Horne
Fullback: Folau, Beale
 
LukeParkerno1 said:
Surely Douglas is in the squad, otherwise why bring him back from overseas?
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I don't think anyone, even Cheika, expected Horwill to playing this well. He's jumped from being on the outskirts of the team to clearly being our number 1 lock. Mumm has also shown that he can play at test level and his versatility is big plus.
 
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