Warne calls S.Waugh "Most selfish" cricketer he's played with

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Royal Flash said:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/224522.html

He was if you were batting with him that's for sure. He had more batsmen run out batting with him than any one else and he wasn't actually bad between wickets unlike someone like Graham Wood who was simply incompetent. He just was so single minded and put self preservation above his teammates welfare when batting, which in a way does make him a selfish cricketer.

Damian Martyn learnt the hard way for one.

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FFS. They could of nearly run 4 in that one!
 
Stopher said:
You could probably count on one hand how many wickets were more valuable than Steve Waugh, so he was right to keep himself in haha
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Less so by 2003/04, though.

He limped to the finish line; his figures were inflated by series against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe right near the end.
 

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STFU Donnie said:
Just watched it. They never crossed and Martyn grounded his bat before Waugh. Waugh was out! So why weren't the umpires onto that?
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Boston tiger said:
Do be honest I couldn't really understand it but you obviously know your stuff.
So if Martin had made his ground up the other end 3 runs have been scored? But because Martin left the crease while Waugh was also in the crease Martin can only be run out at the end he just left.
So if they threw to the wickies end Martin would have been out.
If they threw to the wickie when they were both in the crease Waugh would have been out.

Does that mean if Martin had made it up to the other end he would have been at the wrong end and they should swap back with 2 runs scored ? Yes or no would be fine as I feel I may be wasting your time ?

Interesting all the same .

May have confused myself there? If they are both up the wickies end and the bails are off that end no one is out ?
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You are both confusing the issue here. Let's start again.
In a runout situation the fielding side needs to remove the bails with the ball with the batsman short of the crease. If Damian Martyn stayed where he was in his crease, Steve Waugh would of been out. But because Martyn left his crease before the bails were removed at the other end, Martyn is out. Martyn sacrificed himself by running the third run.
 
Doss said:
Less so by 2003/04, though.

He limped to the finish line; his figures were inflated by series against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe right near the end.
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I'm trying to remember, was he in the 2003 World Cup side? I do remember him trying to get a place by starting to bowl again. Seemed he'd barely bowled at all for 5 years and he was giving himself a trundle again i remember clearly.
 
the_interloper said:
I'm trying to remember, was he in the 2003 World Cup side? I do remember him trying to get a place by starting to bowl again. Seemed he'd barely bowled at all for 5 years and he was giving himself a trundle again i remember clearly.
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Nah. didn't play ODIs after February 2002.

He did take up trundling again late on. He was nowhere near as effective as his early days though.
 
Doss said:
Nonsense. It's not null and void at all.

If they fell out, and it's clear they did at some point even if it was a slow burn, then of course Waugh has laundry to air if he wishes to. There are two sides to every story.

If Warne really wants to take the moral high ground because of how Waugh handled his dropping (even though his dropping was completely the correct decision), then he'd do well to have a look at how he's handled some of the situations he's found himself in.

He has many black marks against his name and if there is one thing that is certain, they're not all because other people wronged Warne. He strikes me (and this is just my opinion) as being a pretty self centred individual and not just that, a narrow minded one too. Once he took a set against you, for even a frivolous reason, then goodnight.

Warne's the best bowler I've seen and I miss watching him something shocking, still; however, it seems pretty clear he has some fairly major character flaws and that he lets them be displayed in full view rather often.
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Disagree with every single thing you have said. A lot of the hatred for Warne at the moment comes from jealousy from the left wing of Australian society. No surprises who dominate the mainstream media now.

What are the black marks against his name can I ask? Most of these supposed black marks are either very minor or private issues between him and his wife. He has never broken the law, never had to go to court because of his behaviour and has never, ever harmed anyone else. Let me guess some of the incidents you will bring up. The info to bookmakers - was a different world back in 92/93. The breaking of the kids camera when caught smoking - not sure if he even broke it, but wow, is that the best you've got on him? His drug ban - wish everyone could condemn the essendon players as much as him as what they did was worse. All other incidents are between him and his wife i.e. none of our business.

With regards to Waugh, anyone who knows anyone connected to the Australian cricket set up at the time knows that Steve Waugh wasn't a great man manager and had a lot of non-existent relationships. This was why he put so much effort into Langer and Hayden at the back end of his career as he had failed in the past with so many others. Michael Slater never says a bad word about anyone so for him to come out and criticise Steve Waugh and his way of handling people says a lot to me.

Any evidence you have got to support your opinion of being self-centred and narrow minded? As all the evidence I have seen suggests the opposite.

Jealousy is one of the worst traits possible in people and, unfortunately, the left wing of Australia have it in spades.
 
Snell1234 said:
Disagree with every single thing you have said. A lot of the hatred for Warne at the moment comes from jealousy from the left wing of Australian society. No surprises who dominate the mainstream media now.

What are the black marks against his name can I ask? Most of these supposed black marks are either very minor or private issues between him and his wife. He has never broken the law, never had to go to court because of his behaviour and has never, ever harmed anyone else. Let me guess some of the incidents you will bring up. The info to bookmakers - was a different world back in 92/93. The breaking of the kids camera when caught smoking - not sure if he even broke it, but wow, is that the best you've got on him? His drug ban - wish everyone could condemn the essendon players as much as him as what they did was worse. All other incidents are between him and his wife i.e. none of our business.

With regards to Waugh, anyone who knows anyone connected to the Australian cricket set up at the time knows that Steve Waugh wasn't a great man manager and had a lot of non-existent relationships. This was why he put so much effort into Langer and Hayden at the back end of his career as he had failed in the past with so many others. Michael Slater never says a bad word about anyone so for him to come out and criticise Steve Waugh and his way of handling people says a lot to me.

Any evidence you have got to support your opinion of being self-centred and narrow minded? As all the evidence I have seen suggests the opposite.

Jealousy is one of the worst traits possible in people and, unfortunately, the left wing of Australia have it in spades.
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Sorry to say this isn't a political issue.

That reads like an Andrew Bolt article trying to link everything to the "looney left".
 
Gough said:
I know someone who worked with Digger Hilditch in the early 00s, and according to her, he said at the time Waugh was selfish, and that he would still be playing now if the selectors hadn't tapped him on the shoulder.
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True could be said about a lot of players coming to the end though. I know Waugh cracked it when dropped from the ODI team
 
Blue1980 said:
Sorry to say this isn't a political issue.

That reads like an Andrew Bolt article trying to link everything to the "looney left".
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Well it is actually. It is about certain members of Australian society, who for the most part fit into the left wing of our country, trying to bring someone down whenever they get a chance.
 

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Richard Pryor said:
Pretty sure conservatives aren't big fans of infidelity either. Take it to the SRP board.
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I don't judge someone based on what they do in their private life. The only person who can judge Warne, besides himself, is his wife in relations to his failings with his marriage.
 
Nobody is actually really judging Warne based on that.

He's one of my favourite ever cricketers and an all time great and he's still a bitter self obsessed individual who holds onto grudges and is unable to be objective about anything.

You only have to listen to him commentate for 5 minutes to figure that out
 
Coming from the person who writes a Bolt-esque essay about how any criticism of Warne is down to left wing ideology?

Right.
 
Royal Flash said:
This.
When you think about it aside from the beginning of his career Warne had never really struggled at test level due to his brilliance until about 1998 when the wear and tear from his massive workload took a toll on his body. After his shoulder surgery and missing a summer of cricket Warne was overweight and out of form and what he could once do with ease ie the flipper, wrong'un etc he could no longer do. And MacGill at that point was the better bowler.

What probably hurt him most was maybe a lack of empathy from Waugh for a bloke at a crossroads of his career. Waugh and Warne were side by side during the good times but at the first sign of a struggle Waugh pretty ruthlessly cast him aside. Now in Waugh's case that's fair enough because he wanted to win a game of cricket but I can also see how Warne was hurt by it and I reckon most of the blokes saying "Warnie deserved to be dropped he was bowling s**t etc" would have felt mightily slighted too if they were put in the same position after all they'd done before.

But to Warne's credit he came back not long after and pretty much bowled us into and won us a World Cup not long after. He adapted as a bowler even though he probably couldn't rip it as much, and lost those spectacular flippers after the shoulder and finger surgery and became an even better bowler through guile, amazing accuracy and subtlety.

There was never any doubt as to who Australia's number one spinner was when Warne was fit and Steve Waugh would agree and he'd admit he was lucky to have him an McGrath in tandem I reckon. Whether they like each other is immaterial anyway. Waugh and Warne are two giants of Australian cricket and provided us with the best era in Australia's modern cricketing history. This stuff now is just venting from Warne and really should be taken with a pinch of salt.
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IMHO, Warne was the sort of person who needed a kick up the arse occasionally. He had so much natural talent, and such a big ego, that I don't think it hurt him to be dealt a reality check every now and then.

He got that early in his career from Terry Jenner. You're a fat lazy piece of s**t who's just coasting along on natural ability, Shane. How about you actually get serious about your fitness, training, and attitude?

He got that late in his career with the drug ban. No Shane, you're not above the game, you need to follow the same rules as everyone else. And, look, here's Macgill and Hogg who are doing a good job in your absence.

I believe being dropped in 1999 was the same deal. Sorry Shane, you can't just waltz back into the team after missing so long with injury, and serve up that sort of stuff. You've gotta get re-focused and make sure you're genuinely back to your best.
 
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