richmond's heritage is definitely working class & catholic (along with North, Collingwood), although this is largely irrelevant now ... but it's also interesting how migrant groups are attracted to certain clubs depending on where they tend to settle.
Was Richmond originally an Irish Cathlolic club?
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We should play each other here on a Sunday afternoon....
Yes but what would we name the cup or trophy?
Ned_Flanders
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I thought we were one of those who wouldn't play protos back in the day.
That being said, it went the other way, I think the Hawks were the last to actually put a catholic on their list
That being said, it went the other way, I think the Hawks were the last to actually put a catholic on their list
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He did, and he was also my grade 5 and 6 footy coach.
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Likes it better when you were no bullshit. 
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Just got a like ( unusual for me ) which alerted me to this thread again.
I remember reading something about the Richmond council and it's history which from at least the 1920's was solely Irish/Catholic ( Australian born) in it's
background of councillors.
pretty much the irish mafia really
I remember reading something about the Richmond council and it's history which from at least the 1920's was solely Irish/Catholic ( Australian born) in it's
background of councillors.
pretty much the irish mafia really
Richmond's descent into a fully working-class community began in the 1890s depression. The genteel sought refuge in the garden suburbs, and many of the grand homes became boarding houses. The rise of working-class politics, led by the Political Labor Council, moved the business elite off the council and out of Richmond's parliamentary seats until it became one of the nation's safest Australian Labor Party (ALP) seats and most notorious hotbeds of factional politics.
With politics went religion. While Catholics remained a large minority in the suburb, they came to symbolise Richmond's character and culture. The traditions of Irish rebelliousness and machine politics were cultivated by both Labor supporters and detractors. ALP preselections were fiercely contested as ambitious but thwarted working-class men yearned for office either on the city council or in parliament, and allegations of impropriety dogged the Richmond ALP and local government for over 70 years. As a poor community made poorer by the great depression of the 1930s, petty gangsterism, SP bookmaking, sly grog selling and small-scale political corruption flourished in the absence of jobs and profits.
http://www.emelbourne.net.au/biogs/EM01245b.htm
During the 19th century, Richmond became a classic working-class Australian suburb, known colloquially as Irish Town. It remained a close-knit community for the best part of 100 years. Even after the postwar influx of southern and eastern European migrants, Richmond still retained much of its character. It remained a Labor stronghold, surviving the split of 1955. Richmond politics, and power in the city council, became synonymous with the O'Connell family. O'Connells and their relatives through marriage held seats on the city council and numerous positions of employment with council.
The Richmond City Council was described as a 'feudal feifdom' (Victoria 1982, p. 78). Indeed, it embodied many of the characteristics of the 'political machines' which grew up in American cities during the 19th and early 20th Centuries extreme social conservatism and a strong element of reciprocity, where political favours were dispensed in return for continued electoral support.
The Richmond dynasty was to pass, but only after a prolonged and bitter struggle.
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/previous series/lcj/1-20/wayward/ch18.html
Australian institute of criminology
With politics went religion. While Catholics remained a large minority in the suburb, they came to symbolise Richmond's character and culture. The traditions of Irish rebelliousness and machine politics were cultivated by both Labor supporters and detractors. ALP preselections were fiercely contested as ambitious but thwarted working-class men yearned for office either on the city council or in parliament, and allegations of impropriety dogged the Richmond ALP and local government for over 70 years. As a poor community made poorer by the great depression of the 1930s, petty gangsterism, SP bookmaking, sly grog selling and small-scale political corruption flourished in the absence of jobs and profits.
http://www.emelbourne.net.au/biogs/EM01245b.htm
During the 19th century, Richmond became a classic working-class Australian suburb, known colloquially as Irish Town. It remained a close-knit community for the best part of 100 years. Even after the postwar influx of southern and eastern European migrants, Richmond still retained much of its character. It remained a Labor stronghold, surviving the split of 1955. Richmond politics, and power in the city council, became synonymous with the O'Connell family. O'Connells and their relatives through marriage held seats on the city council and numerous positions of employment with council.
The Richmond City Council was described as a 'feudal feifdom' (Victoria 1982, p. 78). Indeed, it embodied many of the characteristics of the 'political machines' which grew up in American cities during the 19th and early 20th Centuries extreme social conservatism and a strong element of reciprocity, where political favours were dispensed in return for continued electoral support.
The Richmond dynasty was to pass, but only after a prolonged and bitter struggle.
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/previous series/lcj/1-20/wayward/ch18.html
Australian institute of criminology
pretty much the irish mafia really
You know with all the Mc's on Richmond's list, history might be repeating itself...
Our Irish catholic heritage still runs strong. So many bloody red heads.
I've been researching Irish Catholic enlistment in the AIF and have been looking into the demographics of various suburbs. In North Melbourne, Fitzroy, Collingwood and Richmond the proportion of Catholics was nearly double the national average of 20% and until the post-World War Two influx from non-Anglo countries Catholic meant, overwhelmingly, Irish. The poorest part of Richmond, near the river, was actually called "Irish town". Sectarian divisions were real but were much more between classes - working class protestants were more likely to be irreligious and anti-Catholic feeling was more a middle class phenomenon. There are traces though like the red, white and blue and bulldog of Footscray which comes from the fact that the meat trades in Footscray was full of bigoted Glaswegian immigrants. Names like Francis Bourke (St Francis) and Paddy Guinane are a bit of a giveaway.
Which isn't to say that all Richmond supporters or players were Catholic or Irish. They were, after all, a minority in the suburb. But they were a big minority. Jack Wren ran the council and the DLP briefly held the state seat in the 1950s. Incidentally, it was only when the Hawks swallowed their middle class pride and hired an Irish/Catholic coach that they did any good.
Which isn't to say that all Richmond supporters or players were Catholic or Irish. They were, after all, a minority in the suburb. But they were a big minority. Jack Wren ran the council and the DLP briefly held the state seat in the 1950s. Incidentally, it was only when the Hawks swallowed their middle class pride and hired an Irish/Catholic coach that they did any good.
I am a believer...yes sir...I am a believer
What went right?
Not sure the bolded will come up ........ see Sheedy and Essendon, Essendon was pretty much the same as Hawthorn, although it obviously had had success, but before Sheedy it was quite a long time from memory.
telsor
Hall of Famer
I'm more Maric Orthodox myself.
Or a blackfella.
Correction to my post above. I mistyped "meat trades". I meant metal trades.
There have been polls done of the voting habits of footy fans and Hawks supporters are consistently the biggest Liberal voters, more so even than Melbourne.
Albert Ross
Premiership Player
It is an uncomfortable and awkward topic, but as an indicator of the Catholic, Irish, trade union and working class roots of Collingwood, Richmond and Fitrzoy in particular (and Carlton to some degree) those 4 teams were the ones that kept playing during WW1. Staunch establishment clubs Melbourne, Essendon, University and less establishment but still protestant, South Melbourne and St Kilda withdrew.
The Catholic archbishop Mannix opposed the war and conscription as an 'English' war or a 'trade war' and it was a massively divisive and controversial time. During 1917 at the height of the war there was a general strike with 100,000 people on strike for 6 weeks, mass protests, violence between strikers and strike breakers.
Collingwood participating in Anzac Day would be regarded as a pretty edgy decision by most people from 100 years ago. They had the fewest players serve in WW1.
The Catholic archbishop Mannix opposed the war and conscription as an 'English' war or a 'trade war' and it was a massively divisive and controversial time. During 1917 at the height of the war there was a general strike with 100,000 people on strike for 6 weeks, mass protests, violence between strikers and strike breakers.
Collingwood participating in Anzac Day would be regarded as a pretty edgy decision by most people from 100 years ago. They had the fewest players serve in WW1.
There is some truth to what you say IMO , however once they put this bloke up, the bleeting masses may have shut up or at least became whispers.
William Ruthven (1893-1970), soldier and politician, was born on 21 May 1893 at Collingwood,
He was educated at the Vere Street State School, Collingwood, and became a mechanical engineer.
On 19 May 1918 Ruthven took part in an attack near Ville-sur-Ancre. When his company commander was wounded, Ruthven assumed command but soon the advance was held up by heavy machine-gun fire. Unhesitating, he ran at the machine-gun post, bombed it, bayoneted one of the crew and captured the gun. Then, encountering enemy coming out of a shelter, he wounded two and captured six. Having reorganized his men and formed a post, he noticed further enemy movement in a nearby sunken road. Armed only with a revolver, he shot two men and captured thirty-two. He spent the rest of the day, under fire, supervising consolidation and encouraging his men.
He was awarded the Victoria Cross.
Ruthven was also official timekeeper for the Collingwood Football Club for many years and a foundation member of its social club.
He was elected a councillor in the Melbourne municipality of Collingwood, and in 1945 was elected as mayor. He sat in the Victorian Legislative Assembly from 1945 until 1955 as the Australian Labor Party member for the Electoral district of Preston, then following a redistribution, represented the Electoral district of Reservoir until his retirement in 1961.
The Ruthven Soldiers' Club in Broadmeadows was opened in his honour in 1959, and in 1963 the Ruthven railway station near Reservoir was named after him.
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/ruthven-william-8306
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ruthven_(VC)
Mannix was right, WWI was a bullshit European war Australians had no reason to be in, especially those of Irish descent.
I would agree, could throw in Korea, Vietnam even the Boer war and a stack of recent assorted Middle Eastern forays.
But what WW1 did was give us some sort of futire national identity that IMO the WW1 soldiers would never have dreamed of.
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