wayne carey v gary ablett snr

wayne carey v gary ablett snr

  • wayne carey

    Votes: 85 54.5%
  • gary ablett snr

    Votes: 71 45.5%

  • Total voters
    156

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Going by the way you have used the word Strawman in posts you obviously don't even know what it is.
Anything to avoid the topic. Keep going you're making enough of a fool of yourself already:thumbsu:
 

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gearjammer85

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It's not really an excuse though.
Here are video highlights from that particular game
spointing_down_100-100.gif




. . . as you can clearly see (though given your efforts in a couple of posts above, I'm somewhat unsure you are seeing all that clearly at the minute), he did all the hard work by beating SOS through sheer brilliance but simply let himself down with the easy part of finishing it off. Goals in which Gazza would normally kick 9 times out of 10 so I stand by my original comment that yes, he could have slotted 6 that day.



Not sure that is even relevant to the current discussion is it?



Not exactly. Like all great forwards, they had their off days but they also had their good days. Part and parcel of VFL/AFL football podge.


Boy, that first mark was simply amazing.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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in 93, 94 & 95 Ablett played 64 games scored 375 goals 224 behinds going at 9.4 shots on goal a game.
Best 3 seasons I have ever seen from any player and Carey never got close to this type of peak.

Ablett at his best is amazing.

He was a much better footballer to watch, imo, when he was a wing / hf.
 
May 20, 2011
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Nah....Anger has nothing to do with it....Podge will receive the full kudos & recognition he deserves with the passing of time. Right now his standing & achievements are too close to most peoples noses for them to garner a proper perspective.

Carey & the best players I've ever seen?....Obviously Matthews is number 1....Ablett snr, Jesaulenko, Dempsey, Lockett & then Carey I'd say....Hart, Knights, Blight & Madden would likely comprise the top 10.

As for Carey being the lone force: Archer, King, Simpson, McKernan, Bell, Stevens, Schwass, Laidley, Blakey, Crocker, Martin, Pickett, Grant, Abraham, Harvey & Allison say No.
Not saying we didn't have a good list, it's just Carey was very much the center piece to turning us from a good team to a great team.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Not saying we didn't have a good list, it's just Carey was very much the center piece to turning us from a good team to a great team.

Safe to say though, with that list plus Carey, the Kangaroos should have won 1 or 2 more....That's always been my query on Carey in big finals....And why he could never rate as my number 1 player.
 
Safe to say though, with that list plus Carey, the Kangaroos should have won 1 or 2 more....That's always been my query on Carey in big finals....And why he could never rate as my number 1 player.
Carey had some quiet GFs but has some magnificent match winning final performances. He is my no 2 of all time. Lethal is no 1 but he of the 2 probably struggled to translate his overall supremacy to finals footy. It wa she only real question on him during his career, at least in relation to playing ability.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Carey had some quiet GFs but has some magnificent match winning final performances. He is my no 2 of all time. Lethal is no 1 but he of the 2 probably struggled to translate his overall supremacy to finals footy. It was the only real question on him during his career, at least in relation to playing ability.

Barney's performances in grand finals are more than adequate. And compare quite favorably when in comparison with Carey.

He was near BOG in both 78 & 83....In 71 he rattled quite a few of the Sainters bones, while also collecting 21 possessions & kicking that 60 meter torpedo goal at the beginning of the final quarter, to spark our come from behind win that day.

In 75/76 he was O.K with 21 disposals in each, but was well kept in check during both, truth be told....He did however, flatten the North Captain Greig twice in 76, which had a decided impact on his game & the final result....

In 84 he was good with 4 goals, but went missing after 3/4 time with the rest of our side....His final hoorah, in 85, was one to forget.

That's 4 Flags from 7 attempts, playing very well in 2 of the winning one's....adequate in 4 (21 disposals in 3 of em, 4 goals in the other), without dominating, with 1 flop in his final game, as aa 33 year old at the end of his rope.

As for other finals?....

Barney:

In the 74 first semi he kicked 7 goals against Collingwood in a BOG performance.
In the 76 Qual final he kicked 7.6 & had 33 disposals, cutting North to shreds.
In the 77 Qual final he kicked 4.3 with 26 disposals against North
In the 77 semi he kicked 3.6 against Collingwood & probably cost us that game (2 Points) & the flag that year.
In 78 he dominated in all 3 finals with 26, 27 & 28 disposals & 8 goals across those 3 games. 4.3 & 28 disposals in the grand final.
In the 82 semi he had 37 disposals & kicked 4.3 in his last game as a rover....Easily bog that day.
In 83 he kicked 14 goals across 3 games playing as the nominal FF...3.4, 5.0 & 6.5 in the Grand final
In 84 he kicked 13 goals across 3 final as the full forward: With a 22 disposal, 6.3 game in the qual final against Carlton. And 4 in the GF

Carey:

In 94 Carey was bog in his 2 finals with 32 disposals & 4.4, and 24 disposals kicking 6.4....Very impressive.
In 95, his one good final was the qual final, kicking 5.4 with 22 disposals.
In 96 he had a good series with 23, 24, & 21 disposals. kicking 3,3 & 1 goal in the grand final.
In 97 he had 1 standout final in the qual vs the cats, where he kicked 7 goals from 23 disposals.
In 98 he kicked 5.6 & had 24 disp in the qual final....He kicked 1.4 from 18 in the GF.
In 99 he kicked 6.2 from 24 disposals in the qual final, but had 2 goals from 17 disposals in the GF

So Carey does match Barney for big game finals performances....But his 3 Grand Finals were all reasonable without being dominant. The same is true in Preliminary finals.

Those last 2 big finals seem to stem Carey''s influence markedly....Pressure?

Barney dominated in the 83 Grand final & took the game by the scruff in the 78 decider, when it was up for grabs.
 
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gearjammer85

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Barney's performances in grand finals are more than adequate. And compare quite favorably when in comparison with Carey.

He was near BOG in both 78 & 83....In 71 he rattled quite a few of the Sainters bones, while also collecting 21 possessions & kicking that 60 meter torpedo goal at the beginning of the final quarter, to spark our come from behind win that day.

In 75/76 he was O.K with 21 disposals in each, but was well kept in check during both, truth be told....He did however, flatten the North Captain Greig twice in 76, which had a decided impact on his game & the final result....

In 84 he was good with 4 goals, but went missing after 3/4 time with the rest of our side....His final hoorah, in 85, was one to forget.

That's 4 Flags from 7 attempts, playing very well in 2 of the winning one's....adequate in 4 (21 disposals in 3 of em, 4 goals in the other), without dominating, with 1 flop in his final game, as aa 33 year old at the end of his rope.

As for other finals?....

Barney:

In the 74 first semi he kicked 7 goals against Collingwood in a BOG performance.
In the 76 Qual final he kicked 7.6 & had 33 disposals, cutting North to shreds.
In the 77 Qual final he kicked 4.3 with 26 disposals against North
In the 77 semi he kicked 3.6 against Collingwood & probably cost us that game (2 Points) & the flag that year.
In 78 he dominated in all 3 finals with 26, 27 & 28 disposals & 8 goals across those 3 games. 4.3 & 28 disposals in the grand final.
In the 82 semi he had 37 disposals & kicked 4.3 in his last game as a rover....Easily bog that day.
In 83 he kicked 14 goals across 3 games playing as the nominal FF...3.4, 5.0 & 6.5 in the Grand final
In 84 he kicked 13 goals across 3 final as the full forward: With a 22 disposal, 6.3 game in the qual final against Carlton. And 4 in the GF

Carey:

In 94 Carey was bog in his 2 finals with 32 disposals & 4.4, and 24 disposals kicking 6.4....Very impressive.
In 95, his one good final was the qual final, kicking 5.4 with 22 disposals.
In 96 he had a good series with 23, 24, & 21 disposals. kicking 3,3 & 1 goal in the grand final.
In 97 he had 1 standout final in the qual vs the cats, where he kicked 7 goals from 23 disposals.
In 98 he kicked 5.6 & had 24 disp in the qual final....He kicked 1.4 from 18 in the GF.
In 99 he kicked 6.2 from 24 disposals in the qual final, but had 2 goals from 17 disposals in the GF

So Carey does match Barney for big game finals performances....But his 3 Grand Finals were all reasonable without being dominant. The same is true in Preliminary finals.

Those last 2 big finals seem to stem Carey''s influence markedly....Pressure?

Barney dominated in the 83 Grand final & took the game by the scruff in the 78 decider, when it was up for grabs.

You seem to have forgotten the '93 final vs West Coast at Waverley where Carey played in. So did Jakovich. Where's the stats on that?
 
Feb 24, 2013
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You seem to have forgotten the '93 final vs West Coast at Waverley where Carey played in. So did Jakovich. Where's the stats on that?

Yeah....See what you are getting at.

Have only highlighted the finals in which the Duck dominated; Including his GF performances, as a comparison for the point Gone Critical was making.

Carey's peak only stretched across 7-8 seasons. But that's more to do with the nature & degree of difficulty in playing at CHF....They cop the worst buffeting of the lot.

Both Hart & Derm were washed-up by the time they were 28.
 

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gearjammer85

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Yeah....See what you are getting at.

Have only highlighted the finals in which the Duck dominated; Including his GF performances, as a comparison for the point Gone Critical was making.

Carey's peak only stretched across 7-8 seasons. But that's more to do with the nature & degree of difficulty in playing at CHF....They cop the worst buffeting of the lot.

Both Hart & Derm were washed-up by the time they were 28.

Carey played at full forward on countless occasions. North needed him there cause (Jughead) Longmire was such a sissy and hardly played decent footy against quality opposition.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Carey played at full forward on countless occasions. North needed him there cause (Jughead) Longmire was such a sissy and hardly played decent footy against quality opposition.

O.K:rolleyes:

Well we could talk about G. Ablett snr finals performances if you like?...Like the 91 EF vs Saints....Or the 92 GF?...The 93 PF & GF?....Or the 95 GF & 96 QF!

You guessed it....All flops.o_O
 

gearjammer85

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O.K:rolleyes:

Well we could talk about G. Ablett snr finals performances if you like?...Like the 91 EF vs Saints....Or the 92 GF?...The 93 PF & GF?....Or the 95 GF & 96 QF!

You guessed it....All flops.o_O

3 goals from a half forward flank on John Worsfold in the 92 GF was a reasonable effort. 91 vs Saints, wasn't fit and should never have played that day. 96 vs North was finished, his knee gave in. And regarding the 95 GF, could you do any better with 3 defenders on you? One hanging onto your jumper (Silvagni), Peter Dean (who never kicked one proper drop punt in his career) coming in from the side and Christou down there as well.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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3 goals from a half forward flank on John Worsfold in the 92 GF was a reasonable effort. 91 vs Saints, wasn't fit and should never have played that day. 96 vs North was finished, his knee gave in. And regarding the 95 GF, could you do any better with 3 defenders on you? One hanging onto your jumper (Silvagni), Peter Dean (who never kicked one proper drop punt in his career) coming in from the side and Christou down there as well.

Ah yes....And Carey & Barney were allowed to roam scott-free all day & never carried injuries into finals.:confused:
 
Oct 5, 2013
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O.K:rolleyes:

Well we could talk about G. Ablett snr finals performances if you like?...Like the 91 EF vs Saints....Or the 92 GF?...The 93 PF & GF?....Or the 95 GF & 96 QF!

You guessed it....All flops.o_O

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_AFL_Grand_Final
Didn't boot another 9 goals and thus, gets judged harshly but he was still one Geelong's better players on the day. Did you watch that game? Game was close all day until the third quarter when it was basically all West Coast who eventually broke the game wide open. Ablett didn't see much of it after that and that was typical Geelong of the 80's & 90's for you. Midfield would often crumble under the pressure and our back-line in the early days was a liability of the highest order. Only one bloke listed at 190cm, the rest were barely 6ft tall.

Leigh Matthews would have struggled to even kick a couple of goals on the likes of McKenna, Worsfold or Silvagni. Would racked up 20 touches but no way he's kicking 4's, 5's or 6's on defenders of that ilk.
 
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Feb 24, 2013
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_AFL_Grand_Final
Didn't boot another 9 goals and thus, gets judged harshly but he was still one Geelong's better players on the day. Did you watch that game? Game was close all day until the third quarter when it was basically all West Coast who eventually broke the game wide open. Ablett didn't see much of it after that and that was typical Geelong of the 80's & 90's for you. Midfield would often crumble under the pressure and our back-line in the early days was a liability of the highest order. Only one bloke listed at 190cm, the rest were barely 6ft tall.

And as for the 1994 Prelim, he won the game for us (literally). His final two grand finals were stinkers but who cares, we ran into arguably two of the best defensive teams of the 90's. Leigh Matthews wouldn't have got a kick playing on Guy McKenna, John Worsfold or Steven Silvagni.

Remind us again who was assigned to Barney in his grand finals?
Ablett would have slotted 8 a game playing on Ken Montgomery. Team probably still would have lost though.

Well yes....Ablett played as many blinders in finals as he had flops....there's no denying that fact.

The point was in response to an argument made about Carey's finals flops....Not sure why the need for a defensive mind-set....I voted Ablett.

Anyways, here are his big finals performances.

His 89 finals series was off the scale, other than the first final, in which he was reasonable....But 7, 8 & 9 goal performances, speak for themselves.
His 92 finals series was good, with 16 goals across 4 games. With bags of 5.1, 4.5, 5. & 3.1 at a 15.5 possession average.
His first 2 finals of the 94 series were very good, with returns of 6.6 & 6.3.....He struggled with 5 possessions each in the PF & GF, kicking 3 & 1 goal.
His 95 PF against Richmond was O.K with 4 goals from 13 possessions.

As for Barney's finals taggers, it was usually: John Rantall for North, Phil Manassa for Collingwood, Curly Austin for Carlton, Carey/Heard/Foulds for Essendon.

Any suggestion that Barney & Carey had it easier than Ablett in finals, is fanciful, & reeks of excuse making....They were both the number 1 players of their era & were heavily targeted/tagged.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Yes I know he did. Go watch any full game replay of his and you will see the difference. Taggers, or blokes who basically sacrificed their own games in order to prevent the player for the opposing team from getting the ball popped up in abundance during the 80's.

Nah....Barney was copping heavy tags whenever he went forward of center from the mid 70's onward....I should know, because I was there to see it.:)
 
Feb 24, 2013
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Fair enough. I just don't believe Austin or Rantall were in the same class as Silvagni or McKenna.

John Rantall was a champion & the best back pocket/flanker of his era. Every bit the player Worsfold was....Austin played the same way as Silvagni. His single aim was to stop Barney by any means he could, & he seldom played/watched the ball.... Often he'd get 5 touches & be named among the best.
 

gearjammer85

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Well yes....Ablett played as many blinders in finals as he had flops....there's no denying that fact.

The point was in response to an argument made about Carey's finals flops....Not sure why the need for a defensive mind-set....I voted Ablett.

Anyways, here are his big finals performances.

His 89 finals series was off the scale, other than the first final, in which he was reasonable....But 7, 8 & 9 goal performances, speak for themselves.
His 92 finals series was good, with 16 goals across 4 games. With bags of 5.1, 4.5, 5. & 3.1 at a 15.5 possession average.
His first 2 finals of the 94 series were very good, with returns of 6.6 & 6.3.....He struggled with 5 possessions each in the PF & GF, kicking 3 & 1 goal.
His 95 PF against Richmond was O.K with 4 goals from 13 possessions.

As for Barney's finals taggers, it was usually: John Rantall for North, Phil Manassa for Collingwood, Curly Austin for Carlton, Carey/Heard/Foulds for Essendon.

Any suggestion that Barney & Carey had it easier than Ablett in finals, is fanciful, & reeks of excuse making....They were both the number 1 players of their era & were heavily targeted/tagged.

Curly Austin (could barely hold a football properly), Stephen Carey (who was 10 -15kg overweight even back then), Gary Foulds (still scratching my head how he managed to play 300 games)........Getting desperate or what! Do you actually remember these players?

Gary Snr in finals for Geel :

16 games
64 goals

Interstate matches for Vic :

11 games
43 goals

Not bad....is it!
 
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