We have issues, whether it is talent or effort is secondary. The only way to improve is to focus on players who have both hearts and smarts. For this reason I fully expect Gore to come in this week and stay in for a very long time..
Opinion We have a work rate problem not a talent problem
- Thread starter geelong_crazy26
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Jhye Clark 13
07, 09, 11, 22
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Too much inexperience basically mixed with ageing veterans. The balance isn't right.
Results may be vastly different once our new breed have spent at least 5 years consistently playing together. The team at the moment almost resembles our 2002 side.
David the Cat
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I know Lindsay Thomas isn't everyone's cup of tea, but that guy runs and runs. He showed a few of our guys up, who stopped after the contest, while Thomas bounced up and ran….to get to the next contest…he does it repeatedly.
Our boys have a lot to learn….
Our boys have a lot to learn….
The rabbi
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And that is complicated by the fact that we also have very little in the mid range of Selwood/Hawkins vintage.
Vdubs
Hall of Famer
Looked ok in the LAST quarter against GC
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Vdubs
Hall of Famer
We do, but if we were not expecting this after a decade of finishing top 4, and the AFL equalisation policy, then collectively we are a bunch of deluded supporters. It is only natural and "fair" that our picks are bottom end.
What hasn't helped was recruiting HMc, and keeping on our list guys who have not played in 3 seasons. We have had no disposable depth, but got away with it until last year because of our upper list talent, who are now past it, and heroic efforts from Selwood.
google_this
Debutant
To quote Homer S "a little from column A and a little from column B"
I don't get the delay we have kicking to our forwards and how often Hawk and Clark end up almost competing in the same pack.
But I appreciate the OP, I don't see a lot of gut running in our team.
Look at the dogs 3-4 year players bust a nut and take risks, our game plan seems at odds with what is common amongst successful teams atm.
Maybe C Scott is a genius and in a 2 year plan (my heart thinks) or maybe he is stuck in the 2012 defensive style (my head thinks)
I don't get the delay we have kicking to our forwards and how often Hawk and Clark end up almost competing in the same pack.
But I appreciate the OP, I don't see a lot of gut running in our team.
Look at the dogs 3-4 year players bust a nut and take risks, our game plan seems at odds with what is common amongst successful teams atm.
Maybe C Scott is a genius and in a 2 year plan (my heart thinks) or maybe he is stuck in the 2012 defensive style (my head thinks)
I think most of us here look individually at our players and say , gees what a bargain we got here or there. Its not if "we have no talented players" , its in comparison to other teams that we have less across the board. And when pick from down the back end , year after year , there is less margin for bad luck and error.
Overall we have picked reasonably imo but because of the team we have had.. the guys we have on list , have had less time , because of the bad luck , because of a couple of poor choices (which are just par for the course) we are are short of where we need to be.
Surely thats obvious. If we can draft Cockatoo and Gregson and they come into our side.. a guy like Gore is pressing. Thats should tells us something.
Compare it JOR at Haw. No lock in their best 22 atm.
I think it would be 12 months ago , at least we talked about the lack of 2-4 early picks on our list. As good as we developed last time , we still had a couple of FS that basically equaled early picks and picks (under10) .. Corey , Bartel , Mackie , Tenace & Selwood to build it last time
The 09 draft gave us the potential to beat the system. The Footy Gods said "No soup for you". We need more talent , the best development in the world can only take you so far. Early picks are no auto lock for success , but a club probably needs a certain level of base line talent to be in the mix
I'm in the camp that definitely believes we have both.
The talent problem you can forgive, to a degree. Based on the picks we've had. Although the gamble on so many perennially injured types has cost us as well.
The work rate problem is a real bugbear for me. I'm very forgiving of mistakes and errors of judgement as players develop. But not working hard enough (with and without the ball) just frustrates me no end.
Being such a limited footballer myself, I knew the value of simply working extremely hard and always making every possession difficult for your opponent. Jed aside, I'm not sure how many of the boys out there for us now truly get that.
The first quarter yesterday was really strong for us from a work rate perspective. But as that intensity fell away, the Kangas found it easier and easier to work the ball away from contests and into open space. And our defence eventually crumbled under the weight of too many straightforward entries under negligible pressure.
The deficiencies in these two areas in themselves are enough to ensure we're in a difficult phase.
But we also appear to have another crucial factor holding us back. A talent development problem.
For all the Scott-bashing that goes on around here, the team of coaches around him are not producing much evidence that they're doing a fine job in either developing the players we have or the style in which we play the game.
Stagnation has become a buzzword around the forum and it's not hard to see why.
Some fresh ideas appear to be needed.
Pronto.
The talent problem you can forgive, to a degree. Based on the picks we've had. Although the gamble on so many perennially injured types has cost us as well.
The work rate problem is a real bugbear for me. I'm very forgiving of mistakes and errors of judgement as players develop. But not working hard enough (with and without the ball) just frustrates me no end.
Being such a limited footballer myself, I knew the value of simply working extremely hard and always making every possession difficult for your opponent. Jed aside, I'm not sure how many of the boys out there for us now truly get that.
The first quarter yesterday was really strong for us from a work rate perspective. But as that intensity fell away, the Kangas found it easier and easier to work the ball away from contests and into open space. And our defence eventually crumbled under the weight of too many straightforward entries under negligible pressure.
The deficiencies in these two areas in themselves are enough to ensure we're in a difficult phase.
But we also appear to have another crucial factor holding us back. A talent development problem.
For all the Scott-bashing that goes on around here, the team of coaches around him are not producing much evidence that they're doing a fine job in either developing the players we have or the style in which we play the game.
Stagnation has become a buzzword around the forum and it's not hard to see why.
Some fresh ideas appear to be needed.
Pronto.
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Stagnant ..how?
Current top 10 picks on our list:
Hawkins (likely top 5) - 2006
Caddy - 7 - 2010
Selwood - 7 - 2006
Mackie - 7 - 2002
Jimmy - 8 - 2001
Mitch Clark - 9 - 2005
HMAC - 9 - 2002
Cocky -10 - 2014
We actually have a few top 10ers on the list. But they are injured, or old.
Anyway.....
Hawkins (likely top 5) - 2006
Caddy - 7 - 2010
Selwood - 7 - 2006
Mackie - 7 - 2002
Jimmy - 8 - 2001
Mitch Clark - 9 - 2005
HMAC - 9 - 2002
Cocky -10 - 2014
We actually have a few top 10ers on the list. But they are injured, or old.
Anyway.....
Give me the runs for sure
I think we would agree that we would need another 2-4 at the right time in their career.
For me, our ball movement has become ponderous and often predictable. In every part of the field.
We're extremely slow to move the ball out of the back half.
We're often 'picked off' with ease through the midfield as a result of telegraphing our intentions with the footy before we finally dispose of it.
And I see the disposal into F50 as the icing on a fairly unappetising cake. Long, high and easily defused by a well-marshalled defence.
North got us yesterday predominantly because their ball movement right across the ground was more dynamic than ours.
Which made us look stagnant by contrast.
Danger would be one. Henderson would be another.
Maybe these two are gettable? Maybe that is the plan?
We need the guys holding the ball , conveying the ball the most so ideally 2-3 mids.
- Thread starter
- #42
That's not the problem , the problem is we that we have 8 players on our list aged 24-29 including the injured Vardy,Menzel and Blicavs who started late .So out off 44 players we only have 5 that are at the peak of their careers.
I agree. I was just commenting re the lack of talent/no high draft picks idea.
- Thread starter
- #44
Pump some more games into those under 25 year olds and an awesome pre-season and we will be fine.
Just listening to "On the couch" and they mentioned how Port really pressed up on the mark and forced the Hawks to kick up and over the mark, especially in the first quarter. Funny how after the Hawks game earlier this year I brought up that we do not guard the mark aggressively and at times even allow the opposition an extra few meters or don't guard at all. Another of those small defensive aspects of the game that we haven't done for a few years and still hasn't been addressed by our coaching staff.
It's little things like that that tell me if the team is switched on and working hard for the team.
It's little things like that that tell me if the team is switched on and working hard for the team.
Yeah well, that's unlikely, eh?
Still, if we picked up Danger, and had a top 5-10 draft pick (likely this year); and add in Selwood, Caddy, Cocky - that could be 5 top 10 on-ballers; - and maybe a 6th with Jimmy pinch hitting now and then.
If Gregson and Lang develop well this year, and Motlop/Duncan/Guthrie/ improve 5%-10%, I can see something coming together over the next 1-3 years.
- Thread starter
- #47
Lets give these young players some more games and pre-seasons before we make the conclusion they are not good enough
Look at how many games they have played
Smedts 35
Cockatoo 4
Lang 5
Murdoch 44
Duncan 104
Caddy 62
Bews 11
Gregson 4
Guthrie 68
Motlop 71
GHS 34
Walker 19
Blicavs 49
Other than Duncan the others have not played close to 100 games
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We have many little reason as to why we are not clicking as a team
Workrate is one we push hard offensively but as soon as we turn it over teams find it easy to run it up the ground for a score, also around stoppages too many players with hands on hips around the fringes.
Contested possession not enough are going in to win the possession and is left to far few and this can be attributed to how many young ones in the team still learning.
Disposal off the footy by hand and foot is terrible at times and places undue pressure not to mention taking the wrong option and giving to a team mate under pressure already.
Team work we seem to be playing as individuals not as a team
We need to go back to basics thats made Geelong a tough team to beat and get the defensive side of our game back again and to teach the young ones about that pressure it wont happen overnight but we can see a work in progress
Workrate is one we push hard offensively but as soon as we turn it over teams find it easy to run it up the ground for a score, also around stoppages too many players with hands on hips around the fringes.
Contested possession not enough are going in to win the possession and is left to far few and this can be attributed to how many young ones in the team still learning.
Disposal off the footy by hand and foot is terrible at times and places undue pressure not to mention taking the wrong option and giving to a team mate under pressure already.
Team work we seem to be playing as individuals not as a team
We need to go back to basics thats made Geelong a tough team to beat and get the defensive side of our game back again and to teach the young ones about that pressure it wont happen overnight but we can see a work in progress
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When was the last game - against any opponent ( no matter how poor they were) that Geelong won all 4 qtrs
The 1st qtr against Hawthorn was very good - the 2nd qtr they did not give a yelp - talk about hit the brick wall
Qtr time yesterday 4 goals to nil up - on the home ground - didnt score a goal in the 2nd qtr - even some of the Geelong teams of the early 70s ( who were cellar dwellars) would have put in a better effort than that
Hawthorn and Sydney look super fit - they keep running right to the end
The 1st qtr against Hawthorn was very good - the 2nd qtr they did not give a yelp - talk about hit the brick wall
Qtr time yesterday 4 goals to nil up - on the home ground - didnt score a goal in the 2nd qtr - even some of the Geelong teams of the early 70s ( who were cellar dwellars) would have put in a better effort than that
Hawthorn and Sydney look super fit - they keep running right to the end
