Opinion We have a work rate problem not a talent problem

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Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 25, 2011
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Lets give these young players some more games and pre-seasons before we make the conclusion they are not good enough
Look at how many games they have played

Smedts 35
Cockatoo 4
Lang 5
Murdoch 44
Duncan 104
Caddy 62
Bews 11
Gregson 4
Guthrie 68
Motlop 71
GHS 34
Walker 19
Blicavs 49

Other than Duncan the others have not played close to 100 games

Agreed.

Looking at the list, it is hard to be too critical of many of these young/inexperienced players.

But, I find it difficult to see less than 10 changes to the list at seasons end, so we need these guys to be stepping up this year, or at least showing us they can step up.

There is hope, but it must be realised as always.
 
Dec 11, 2009
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When was the last game - against any opponent ( no matter how poor they were) that Geelong won all 4 qtrs

The 1st qtr against Hawthorn was very good - the 2nd qtr they did not give a yelp - talk about hit the brick wall

Qtr time yesterday 4 goals to nil up - on the home ground - didnt score a goal in the 2nd qtr - even some of the Geelong teams of the early 70s ( who were cellar dwellars) would have put in a better effort than that

Hawthorn and Sydney look super fit - they keep running right to the end

If I understand correctly, the club removed replaced the fitness staff this year after identifying an inability to run games out as a critical issue.

They've recognised the problem, made the changes......question is, how long does it take for a new fitness regime to come into effect?
 

CharacterFirst

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 25, 2011
5,721
6,034
A wilful, lavish land.
AFL Club
Geelong
When was the last game - against any opponent ( no matter how poor they were) that Geelong won all 4 qtrs

The 1st qtr against Hawthorn was very good - the 2nd qtr they did not give a yelp - talk about hit the brick wall

Qtr time yesterday 4 goals to nil up - on the home ground - didnt score a goal in the 2nd qtr - even some of the Geelong teams of the early 70s ( who were cellar dwellars) would have put in a better effort than that

Hawthorn and Sydney look super fit - they keep running right to the end
I really do think (hope :eek:) that is age and experience - years of pre-seasons and game nous, and body maturity.

We know it takes a lot out of young players to be battered by bigger bodies for a half or more. They just can't compete all game.
 

nowhereneargeelong

Cancelled
May 22, 2008
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Australia
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I am 100% confident that we are close to having enough talent on our list that with the addition of some topping up at the end of the year we can challenge for the premiership. The issue we have is work rate both on and off the field.

The bulk of our players can not run hard both ways for 4 quarters and after quarter time in every game this year our players have not been able to keep up with their direct opponent .We can set up defensive structures up the field but one on one we cant keep up with the opposition and we have too many tackles that are easily broken.

Its not just when the opposition has the ball but when we have the ball as well , not enough players get involved which reduces our options and also means that as soon as we lose possession of the ball the opposition is able to create an effective turnover as we don't have enough numbers around to put much pressure back on.

Bottom line is no matter what game plane we use ,how we structure up or what players we select we can not be a top 4 side until we develop the ability to run hard both way for a FULL GAME. Lets make getting super fit for 2016 our number 1 priority

Please, get real. Accept that we have a young team that needs time to develop.

If you accept this, the next few years can be interesting and fun.
 

Goggin Our Best

Norm Smith Medallist
May 23, 2011
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I really do think (hope :eek:) that is age and experience - years of pre-seasons and game nous, and body maturity.

We know it takes a lot out of young players to be battered by bigger bodies for a half or more. They just can't compete all game.

I watched the Swans a couple of weeks ago against Port- the Swans had some young bloke playing his 2nd game - dont even know his name - looked like a blond haired surfer - but talk about fit - had the physique and running capacity of a rugby league winger - maybe Dank has got a brother or a relative in Sydney !
 
Jan 13, 2006
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Please, get real. Accept that we have a young team that needs time to develop.

If you accept this, the next few years can be interesting and fun.

Get real with regards to what ? how long it will take to challenge for a premiership again ?

If we are smart with our list management and player development we can challenge again in 2017.
 

CharacterFirst

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 25, 2011
5,721
6,034
A wilful, lavish land.
AFL Club
Geelong
I watched the Swans a couple of weeks ago against Port- the Swans had some young bloke playing his 2nd game - dont even know his name - looked like a blond haired surfer - but talk about fit - had the physique and running capacity of a rugby league winger - maybe Dank has got a brother or a relative in Sydney !
Isaac Heeny. Swans Academy player. Taken late first round/early second round last year. Tipped as a top 5 pick. Will be a gun.
 

BlightysCats

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 5, 2013
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I am 100% confident that we are close to having enough talent on our list that with the addition of some topping up at the end of the year we can challenge for the premiership. The issue we have is work rate both on and off the field.
Lack of talent is our real problem, we just simply can't put together any meaningful chains of possession in games at the moment due to poor and rather basic skill errors that talented midfields just don't make.
 
Isaac Heeny. Swans Academy player. Taken late first round/early second round last year. Tipped as a top 5 pick. Will be a gun.

Has been in their system for the last 5 years on so which makes a massive difference.

Very few players get drafted under the conditions he was groomed under.
 

nowhereneargeelong

Cancelled
May 22, 2008
826
888
Australia
AFL Club
Geelong
Get real with regards to what ? how long it will take to challenge for a premiership again ?

If we are smart with our list management and player development we can challenge again in 2017.

By challenge do you mean making the Grand Final? If so, no, we will not challenge in 2017.

This is going to take time- both the rebuild AND the adjustment of expectations it seems...
 
Agreed.

Looking at the list, it is hard to be too critical of many of these young/inexperienced players.

But, I find it difficult to see less than 10 changes to the list at seasons end, so we need these guys to be stepping up this year, or at least showing us they can step up.

There is hope, but it must be realised as always.
I am not at all critical of these mids of ours, other than to suggest they are not as good as their peers in other teams. Maybe Corey, Enright, Bartel, and Ling started slowly and peaked together, and maintained a great standard based on self-belief and results, but I just don't see any A graders there in the near future.
There is hope as you say.
 
Think I found the problem:

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Please relax it was meant as a joke. The place needs to lighten up a bit and remember it is a game at the end of the day.
 
Sep 18, 2014
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When was the last game - against any opponent ( no matter how poor they were) that Geelong won all 4 qtrs

The 1st qtr against Hawthorn was very good - the 2nd qtr they did not give a yelp - talk about hit the brick wall

Qtr time yesterday 4 goals to nil up - on the home ground - didnt score a goal in the 2nd qtr - even some of the Geelong teams of the early 70s ( who were cellar dwellars) would have put in a better effort than that

Hawthorn and Sydney look super fit - they keep running right to the end

That's a tough one, have to go back to 2011 maybe, or surely in 2013 we played some good 4 quarters games as we were pretty good that year. Can't think of one off the top of my head though. It's one of our biggest problems, we played in ebs and flows, 1 quarter we look good, the next we look complete s**t.

It's obvious we can't run out games, so there is a fitness issue, and with that comes discipline, I think we have an issue with that too. But it's not all that, we aren't a smart footy side, we're 'dumb' to put it bluntly, and our skill level is pretty piss poor at the moment.

It's hard to pin-point what's really going on because I personally don't know what our game plan is, as every game we just seem to turn it over and bomb it in long in hope that Hawkins or Clark take a mark against 5-6 defenders. One glaring problem for us though is our movement of the ball, it's far to slow, and it's why we then it over all the time now. We get it in the backline or from a kick out from goal and players up the field are stagnant, no one runs to break the line, we've stopped our 'corridor' footy now too. Once the opposition gets the ball in their F50, they keep it in their and we always seem to struggle to get it out or run it out.

We honestly need more from Harry Taylor, he needs to be the general down back, get things in line, get direction, at the moment he looks like a dopey bastard who can't get a kick, a complete shadow from what he was only 2 years ago.

This current side isn't top 8 material at present, there's more than a dozen guys at the club who need a gigantic kick up the backside.
 
Mar 6, 2014
41,562
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That's a tough one, have to go back to 2011 maybe, or surely in 2013 we played some good 4 quarters games as we were pretty good that year. Can't think of one off the top of my head though. It's one of our biggest problems, we played in ebs and flows, 1 quarter we look good, the next we look complete s**t.

It's obvious we can't run out games, so there is a fitness issue, and with that comes discipline, I think we have an issue with that too. But it's not all that, we aren't a smart footy side, we're 'dumb' to put it bluntly, and our skill level is pretty piss poor at the moment.

It's hard to pin-point what's really going on because I personally don't know what our game plan is, as every game we just seem to turn it over and bomb it in long in hope that Hawkins or Clark take a mark against 5-6 defenders. One glaring problem for us though is our movement of the ball, it's far to slow, and it's why we then it over all the time now. We get it in the backline or from a kick out from goal and players up the field are stagnant, no one runs to break the line, we've stopped our 'corridor' footy now too. Once the opposition gets the ball in their F50, they keep it in their and we always seem to struggle to get it out or run it out.

We honestly need more from Harry Taylor, he needs to be the general down back, get things in line, get direction, at the moment he looks like a dopey bastard who can't get a kick, a complete shadow from what he was only 2 years ago.

This current side isn't top 8 material at present, there's more than a dozen guys at the club who need a gigantic kick up the backside.
Harry might have had one too many head knocks. It seems to take him twice as long to spot up a target downfield, hence a chance for the opposition to flood back to defend, even get right into our F50 :(

Needs to have some speed injected into him.
 
We sit right behind the players coming off the ground, and many remarked on the appearance of Motlop. No longer lithe and athletic, he looks almost overweight for his stature and role, and really gasping for breath. Not sure what his preseason was, but it looks as if he's had plenty of sustenance.
 
Mar 6, 2014
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We sit right behind the players coming off the ground, and many remarked on the appearance of Motlop. No longer lithe and athletic, he looks almost overweight for his stature and role, and really gasping for breath. Not sure what his preseason was, but it looks as if he's had plenty of sustenance.
If this is a real problem, Vdubs, hopefully he will receive a big kick up the bum, get dropped a few times and have his spine reforged in the fires of disappointment. If he leaves the club as a result, we have lost nothing, but if he pulls himself out of whatever hole he's in and recovers to the same degree and with the same willpower that Stokesy showed a few years ago, he will grow into a champion of the club. I'd like nothing better than to see a return to his form of 2013 but, if he has an attitude problem- and I don't know that he does- he could be cut loose and I wouldn't lose any sleep over him.
 
If this is a real problem, Vdubs, hopefully he will receive a big kick up the bum, get dropped a few times and have his spine reforged in the fires of disappointment. If he leaves the club as a result, we have lost nothing, but if he pulls himself out of whatever hole he's in and recovers to the same degree and with the same willpower that Stokesy showed a few years ago, he will grow into a champion of the club. I'd like nothing better than to see a return to his form of 2013 but, if he has an attitude problem- and I don't know that he does- he could be cut loose and I wouldn't lose any sleep over him.
We could be off the mark here. But he looked spent a few times, and it didn't seem to be from some frantic effort he'd put in, other than running off the ground.
Yet, his stats "appear" to be reasonable. Just doesn't look anywhere near as potent as in previous years, and no taking on the game any more. And vitally, his elite speed seems way off his best.
 
Oct 5, 2013
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It also needs to be said that we our now a very selfish team. So many blokes playing for themselves. What made Geelong such a wonderful team under Bomber Thompson, there were few superstars. Every player in every position was so team-orientated, opposing teams couldn't shut down our better players without having Wojcinski or Kelly getting in on the act. Even new players such as Prismall, Hogan, Taylor knew their role and played it by the book.

It's almost like Port Adelaide today. They don't necessary have superstars, but they beat you in almost every position because they are so united and it's showing out there on the field.
 
Mar 6, 2014
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We could be off the mark here. But he looked spent a few times, and it didn't seem to be from some frantic effort he'd put in, other than running off the ground.
Yet, his stats "appear" to be reasonable. Just doesn't look anywhere near as potent as in previous years, and no taking on the game any more. And vitally, his elite speed seems way off his best.
I do understand that some players who are light and fast just aren't going to be endurance players, Vdubs, and they can be exhausted after a couple of 'length of ground' sprints. Motlop is now 24- he should have built up some fitness to the extent that he can repeat these burst sprints over and over, with rests in between, each quarter. Even allowing for his injuries in recent years.
I just hope he isn't slipping into bad habits- contentment is probably one of the worst things a player can feel, as it leads to laziness, and he might feel that his place in the 22 is written in the book by 5pm every Sunday night for the coming week.

Many here have commented on his lack of defensive side- and I would give him a bit of leeway as he's an outside not an inside type of player- but I actually thought he's improved in this area, particularly his first quarter on Sunday. In his past 2 games, he's had 9 tackles- last year he averaged 1.6. He's actually stayed on the ground for almost 90% game time this season, whereas last season, he averaged around 84% game time per game. I know we only have a small sample of 3 games to look at so far this season but I hope he continues to improve in all aspects of his game, as well as his fitness. Having the week off against Freo, and probably being reamed out by his teammates as well, could be the making of him. I hope he heeds the lesson.
 

DanA

Norm Smith Medallist
May 15, 2006
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We have a massive work rate issue, it's undeniable IMO but understandable. Between the 1999 and 2001 draft we brought in seven All Australian midfielders not including Enright and it's stunted the generations to follow. Selwood was the only midfielder able to break in to the team from 2002-2008 and now we've got a big problem because Selwood's the only midfielder between 24-28 y/o.

That IMO right there is where our work rate problem comes from and there's no realistic solution. We are relying on Selwood, Caddy and Guthrie to do the grunt work that in our prime was done by Ablett, Bartel, Chapman, Kelly, Corey and Ling as 100+ game midfielders. (later Johnson and Stokes). But Caddy and Guthrie are 40 games shy of 100 and the support are either rookies or the wrong side of 30.

If the current team is to be Premiership contenders then 3-4 more 100 game inside midfielders need to be found from somewhere. On the plus side the rest of the team is brilliant (ruck excluded) so we won't need to be quite as good in the middle (compared to the premiership sides) but we do need players of the right age profile to do the grunt work and show the work rate.

Jansen, Gore and Cockatoo are still four years away from being 100 game players and I don't see where else on the list we have viable inside midfielders to fill the void. Perhaps we can get lucky in free agency but for the time being, we're going to struggle. I think we're going to have to go full rebuild in he next two drafts where I'd focus almost exclusively on inside midfielders.
 

BIGANT

Premiership Player
Jan 19, 2006
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We do, but if we were not expecting this after a decade of finishing top 4, and the AFL equalisation policy, then collectively we are a bunch of deluded supporters. It is only natural and "fair" that our picks are bottom end.
What hasn't helped was recruiting HMc, and keeping on our list guys who have not played in 3 seasons. We have had no disposable depth, but got away with it until last year because of our upper list talent, who are now past it, and heroic efforts from Selwood.
And i think it's hit us a yr early Vdubs ? Or the way the game has remained quicker has made our veterans look out of depth invariably to r4. Yeah they had good pre-seasons the oldies but the speed of the game is making us look silly at times.
 
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