Player Watch Tom Doedee - Departed for Brisbane, End of 1st Round FA Compensation

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Nov 1, 2012
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Sloane was on our radar in 2007 and pretty much no one else's

Imagine if we took him at either #10 or #28 that year. The flaming torches would be out it would be chaos

But looking back no now he's easily worth both those picks, let alone being 3rd round the following draft

Just because we see something in doedee doesn't mean we're wrong
 

creme_fraiche

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Umm... you do realize we only had two list spots available coming into the draft, hence that wasn't an option.

If it was, we may have done what you said we should.

You do realise you can trade fringe players for later picks?
 
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There are three issues at play here.

There's the question of whether Doedee was really the best available given who was drafted after him. At this stage, who knows? We have almost nothing to go on re: Doedee other than some broad statements about him being super competitive and some good athletic results. Our recruiting team haven't picked up a lemon in the first round since Pfeiffer almost a decade ago so they probably deserve the benefit of the doubt.

There's the question of why we recruited a player who plays in a position we have lots of other players in already. But this is pretty easy to answer. First, he is still very new to the game and has played several positions. Second, even if he does end up as a medium defender that's a good thing, because pretty much all of our many medium defenders are mediocre at best. If he works out in this role it will be nice knowing we can go into each match with Talia, Lever, Doedee, Brown and Laird all capable of locking their opponent down. Not too many combinations of size and shape in the AFL that we can't cover with that lineup.

The last, and most relevant, question is whether we erred in keeping pick 13 when we might have been able to get him with a later pick and gain some quality elsewhere in the exchange.

It seems likely we were gambling on pick 13 scoring us Himmelberg, a gamble which didn't pay off. That's a pity, but I'd rather the club take calculated gambles when they get a chance to than just playing it safe all the time. Hard to bridge the gap between us and the best sides if you just play your cards straight up. You need to take some risks to get ahead.

Realistically, whichever way we went, the same fans who are unhappy now would still have been unhappy. If we traded down to a pick in the 30s and got some small improvement in our list, and then picked Doedee at that pick, people would be up in arms about how we traded away the chance to pick up Burton for a bag of magic beans and ended up with a player nobody had heard of anyway.

Overall it's a pity that we didn't get our first choice at pick 13, but probably not a disaster - as long as our recruitment team have done their jobs and Doedee is as good as they obviously think he is. Yeah, we could have walked away with a bit more than we got if we knew in advance what would happen, but that's the price you take for taking a gamble, and I'd prefer we continue to take those gambles going forward.
 

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mattymac

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Speculation: Order of the day, apparently. People have creamed over draftees that never got near it and scoffed at others that rose to the top of the league. Let's just give the lad a chance, especially since he and his family are no doubt going to read this pessimistic drivel fest. Do your best son, the bulk of us will judge you on your merits.
 
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There are three issues at play here.

There's the question of whether Doedee was really the best available given who was drafted after him. At this stage, who knows? We have almost nothing to go on re: Doedee other than some broad statements about him being super competitive and some good athletic results. Our recruiting team haven't picked up a lemon in the first round since Pfeiffer almost a decade ago so they probably deserve the benefit of the doubt.

There's the question of why we recruited a player who plays in a position we have lots of other players in already. But this is pretty easy to answer. First, he is still very new to the game and has played several positions. Second, even if he does end up as a medium defender that's a good thing, because pretty much all of our many medium defenders are mediocre at best. If he works out in this role it will be nice knowing we can go into each match with Talia, Lever, Doedee, Brown and Laird all capable of locking their opponent down. Not too many combinations of size and shape in the AFL that we can't cover with that lineup.

The last, and most relevant, question is whether we erred in keeping pick 13 when we might have been able to get him with a later pick and gain some quality elsewhere in the exchange.

It seems likely we were gambling on pick 13 scoring us Himmelberg, a gamble which didn't pay off. That's a pity, but I'd rather the club take calculated gambles when they get a chance to than just playing it safe all the time. Hard to bridge the gap between us and the best sides if you just play your cards straight up. You need to take some risks to get ahead.

Realistically, whichever way we went, the same fans who are unhappy now would still have been unhappy. If we traded down to a pick in the 30s and got some small improvement in our list, and then picked Doedee at that pick, people would be up in arms about how we traded away the chance to pick up Burton for a bag of magic beans and ended up with a player nobody had heard of anyway.

Overall it's a pity that we didn't get our first choice at pick 13, but probably not a disaster - as long as our recruitment team have done their jobs and Doedee is as good as they obviously think he is. Yeah, we could have walked away with a bit more than we got if we knew in advance what would happen, but that's the price you take for taking a gamble, and I'd prefer we continue to take those gambles going forward.

Damn your considered analytical brain, it has no place on this forum
 

Hodgy

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I wouldn't have chosen Tom doedee at pick 13 (17) but does that mean I'm right ??

If Ogilvie was Shane rogers from Carlton with a history of misses then I'd be upset but I have a little more faith than you. Is that right ? No one knows yet

What's clear is we wanted a key forward , probably H McKay ( hence Carlton taking him early ) and definitely himmelberg as fall back

We missed them both and Doed's was our next bet

I'm definitely more upset about missing H McKay than burton but that's the beauty of this no one is right or wrong yet
If you're right that we were really keen for a fwd and still didn't take Burton then you would have to think that we had grave fears about his knee.
 
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If you're right that we were really keen for a fwd and still didn't take Burton then you would have to think that we had grave fears about his knee.
The obsession for burton on this forum is definitely different to what the recruiters were thinking

I would say largely due to the injury as he is a good talent
 

skoobydoo

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There are three issues at play here.

There's the question of whether Doedee was really the best available given who was drafted after him. At this stage, who knows? We have almost nothing to go on re: Doedee other than some broad statements about him being super competitive and some good athletic results. Our recruiting team haven't picked up a lemon in the first round since Pfeiffer almost a decade ago so they probably deserve the benefit of the doubt.

There's the question of why we recruited a player who plays in a position we have lots of other players in already. But this is pretty easy to answer. First, he is still very new to the game and has played several positions. Second, even if he does end up as a medium defender that's a good thing, because pretty much all of our many medium defenders are mediocre at best. If he works out in this role it will be nice knowing we can go into each match with Talia, Lever, Doedee, Brown and Laird all capable of locking their opponent down. Not too many combinations of size and shape in the AFL that we can't cover with that lineup.

The last, and most relevant, question is whether we erred in keeping pick 13 when we might have been able to get him with a later pick and gain some quality elsewhere in the exchange.

It seems likely we were gambling on pick 13 scoring us Himmelberg, a gamble which didn't pay off. That's a pity, but I'd rather the club take calculated gambles when they get a chance to than just playing it safe all the time. Hard to bridge the gap between us and the best sides if you just play your cards straight up. You need to take some risks to get ahead.

Realistically, whichever way we went, the same fans who are unhappy now would still have been unhappy. If we traded down to a pick in the 30s and got some small improvement in our list, and then picked Doedee at that pick, people would be up in arms about how we traded away the chance to pick up Burton for a bag of magic beans and ended up with a player nobody had heard of anyway.

Overall it's a pity that we didn't get our first choice at pick 13, but probably not a disaster - as long as our recruitment team have done their jobs and Doedee is as good as they obviously think he is. Yeah, we could have walked away with a bit more than we got if we knew in advance what would happen, but that's the price you take for taking a gamble, and I'd prefer we continue to take those gambles going forward.

Well said. Taking the game on also includes the recruiting side of things.
 

marty36

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The obsession for burton on this forum is definitely different to what the recruiters were thinking

I would say largely due to the injury as he is a good talent


The obsession is there because he was touted as a top 5 pick prior to getting injured he is a SA lad his father was a good SANFL player and it will be remember frequently we let him go.

Rightly or wrongly it will be talked about probably more so than Pavlich as McGregor turned out ok and it is still being discussed. The talk will be on Doedee but that is the nature of SA media
 

marty36

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There are three issues at play here.

There's the question of whether Doedee was really the best available given who was drafted after him. At this stage, who knows? We have almost nothing to go on re: Doedee other than some broad statements about him being super competitive and some good athletic results. Our recruiting team haven't picked up a lemon in the first round since Pfeiffer almost a decade ago so they probably deserve the benefit of the doubt.

There's the question of why we recruited a player who plays in a position we have lots of other players in already. But this is pretty easy to answer. First, he is still very new to the game and has played several positions. Second, even if he does end up as a medium defender that's a good thing, because pretty much all of our many medium defenders are mediocre at best. If he works out in this role it will be nice knowing we can go into each match with Talia, Lever, Doedee, Brown and Laird all capable of locking their opponent down. Not too many combinations of size and shape in the AFL that we can't cover with that lineup.

The last, and most relevant, question is whether we erred in keeping pick 13 when we might have been able to get him with a later pick and gain some quality elsewhere in the exchange.

It seems likely we were gambling on pick 13 scoring us Himmelberg, a gamble which didn't pay off. That's a pity, but I'd rather the club take calculated gambles when they get a chance to than just playing it safe all the time. Hard to bridge the gap between us and the best sides if you just play your cards straight up. You need to take some risks to get ahead.

Realistically, whichever way we went, the same fans who are unhappy now would still have been unhappy. If we traded down to a pick in the 30s and got some small improvement in our list, and then picked Doedee at that pick, people would be up in arms about how we traded away the chance to pick up Burton for a bag of magic beans and ended up with a player nobody had heard of anyway.

Overall it's a pity that we didn't get our first choice at pick 13, but probably not a disaster - as long as our recruitment team have done their jobs and Doedee is as good as they obviously think he is. Yeah, we could have walked away with a bit more than we got if we knew in advance what would happen, but that's the price you take for taking a gamble, and I'd prefer we continue to take those gambles going forward.


I agree but once that punt was taken they have put double or nothing on Doedee once they missed Himmelberg. Big balls I say
 
There are three issues at play here.

There's the question of whether Doedee was really the best available given who was drafted after him. At this stage, who knows? We have almost nothing to go on re: Doedee other than some broad statements about him being super competitive and some good athletic results. Our recruiting team haven't picked up a lemon in the first round since Pfeiffer almost a decade ago so they probably deserve the benefit of the doubt.

There's the question of why we recruited a player who plays in a position we have lots of other players in already. But this is pretty easy to answer. First, he is still very new to the game and has played several positions. Second, even if he does end up as a medium defender that's a good thing, because pretty much all of our many medium defenders are mediocre at best. If he works out in this role it will be nice knowing we can go into each match with Talia, Lever, Doedee, Brown and Laird all capable of locking their opponent down. Not too many combinations of size and shape in the AFL that we can't cover with that lineup.

The last, and most relevant, question is whether we erred in keeping pick 13 when we might have been able to get him with a later pick and gain some quality elsewhere in the exchange.

It seems likely we were gambling on pick 13 scoring us Himmelberg, a gamble which didn't pay off. That's a pity, but I'd rather the club take calculated gambles when they get a chance to than just playing it safe all the time. Hard to bridge the gap between us and the best sides if you just play your cards straight up. You need to take some risks to get ahead.

Realistically, whichever way we went, the same fans who are unhappy now would still have been unhappy. If we traded down to a pick in the 30s and got some small improvement in our list, and then picked Doedee at that pick, people would be up in arms about how we traded away the chance to pick up Burton for a bag of magic beans and ended up with a player nobody had heard of anyway.

Overall it's a pity that we didn't get our first choice at pick 13, but probably not a disaster - as long as our recruitment team have done their jobs and Doedee is as good as they obviously think he is. Yeah, we could have walked away with a bit more than we got if we knew in advance what would happen, but that's the price you take for taking a gamble, and I'd prefer we continue to take those gambles going forward.

Thanks for this, means i don't have to post any other thoughts. Perfect.
 

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Elite Crow

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There are three issues at play here.

There's the question of whether Doedee was really the best available given who was drafted after him. At this stage, who knows? We have almost nothing to go on re: Doedee other than some broad statements about him being super competitive and some good athletic results. Our recruiting team haven't picked up a lemon in the first round since Pfeiffer almost a decade ago so they probably deserve the benefit of the doubt.

There's the question of why we recruited a player who plays in a position we have lots of other players in already. But this is pretty easy to answer. First, he is still very new to the game and has played several positions. Second, even if he does end up as a medium defender that's a good thing, because pretty much all of our many medium defenders are mediocre at best. If he works out in this role it will be nice knowing we can go into each match with Talia, Lever, Doedee, Brown and Laird all capable of locking their opponent down. Not too many combinations of size and shape in the AFL that we can't cover with that lineup.

The last, and most relevant, question is whether we erred in keeping pick 13 when we might have been able to get him with a later pick and gain some quality elsewhere in the exchange.

It seems likely we were gambling on pick 13 scoring us Himmelberg, a gamble which didn't pay off. That's a pity, but I'd rather the club take calculated gambles when they get a chance to than just playing it safe all the time. Hard to bridge the gap between us and the best sides if you just play your cards straight up. You need to take some risks to get ahead.

Realistically, whichever way we went, the same fans who are unhappy now would still have been unhappy. If we traded down to a pick in the 30s and got some small improvement in our list, and then picked Doedee at that pick, people would be up in arms about how we traded away the chance to pick up Burton for a bag of magic beans and ended up with a player nobody had heard of anyway.

Overall it's a pity that we didn't get our first choice at pick 13, but probably not a disaster - as long as our recruitment team have done their jobs and Doedee is as good as they obviously think he is. Yeah, we could have walked away with a bit more than we got if we knew in advance what would happen, but that's the price you take for taking a gamble, and I'd prefer we continue to take those gambles going forward.
Nice post but you don't swap pick 13 for a pick in the 30s for only a small improvement. So your dig doesn't quite work
 
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I agree but once that punt was taken they have put double or nothing on Doedee once they missed Himmelberg. Big balls I say
WTF? They gambled on Himmelberg, and lost. With him off the table, the simply went with the next best player on their list - Doedee. Himmelberg was a gamble, Doedee was not.
 

Messiah

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I am outraged that our recruiting team paid no heed to the amateur phantom draft legends Skippos and Knightmare. OUTRAGED! Did they think that by actually watching games they would learn more about young players than they would by reading Bigfooty? WTF were they thinking? I will send Andrew Fagan a letter with my shredded membership card today*.


* (this year's membership card - I will get over this by next year, maybe even by next week)
 

marty36

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WTF? They gambled on Himmelberg, and lost. With him off the table, the simply went with the next best player on their list - Doedee. Himmelberg was a gamble, Doedee was not.


WTF?????? Im glad he was on the crows list of stars as he was predicted by all experts as a later than Top 40 pick in a shallow draft. SEN reported yesterday a couple of clubs were targeting him towards the end of the draft. Yet we used a first rounder. Ogilvie in the Advertiser this morning all but agrees that they have taken a punt and we need to trust their instincts. Im sorry our team is going to be lucky to make the eight and hasnt been in a GF for almost twenty years and we are punting with first round draft picks on a HBF when key position players where available.

Himmelberg was far from a gamble compared to a player that not one person considered anywhere near first round draft selection. Punting on Burtons injury would have such greater upside its not funny, then you had Collins or Balic or even Bonner who was rated higher up the scheme of things than Doedee

Why do you say Doedee wasnt a punt, because you were told by the AFC?
 

marty36

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I am outraged that our recruiting team paid no heed to the amateur phantom draft legends Skippos and Knightmare. OUTRAGED! Did they think that by actually watching games they would learn more about young players than they would by reading Bigfooty? WTF were they thinking? I will send Andrew Fagan a letter with my shredded membership card today*.


* (this year's membership card - I will get over this by next year, maybe even by next week)

You dont need to read phanton drafts to make your selection, thje reason peoples opinions are similar whether they be Mike Sheehan, Caro Wilson or even the phanton drafts for that matter is people have studied the potential talent coming through and have formed a similar poistion not because the kid has a good haircut but because he can play. Francis was picked as a top 10 because he was outstanding I watched him twice this year and he was a stand out granted it was college footy, but no one could touch him. Sharenberg is being touted as top 10 next year for the draft, if you watch him you would agree. Jarman is nowhere near as good, but will go because of his name.

Adelaide have taken a huge punt, Ogilvie has all but admitted it, fine we deal with it but dont expect not to be questioned and if it fails critisized. If you have runs on the board like Hawthorn you can get away with it, but Adelaide are a mid pack club which we all want to be a top club so their bad decisions will be magnified
 
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There are three issues at play here.

There's the question of whether Doedee was really the best available given who was drafted after him. At this stage, who knows? We have almost nothing to go on re: Doedee other than some broad statements about him being super competitive and some good athletic results. Our recruiting team haven't picked up a lemon in the first round since Pfeiffer almost a decade ago so they probably deserve the benefit of the doubt.

There's the question of why we recruited a player who plays in a position we have lots of other players in already. But this is pretty easy to answer. First, he is still very new to the game and has played several positions. Second, even if he does end up as a medium defender that's a good thing, because pretty much all of our many medium defenders are mediocre at best. If he works out in this role it will be nice knowing we can go into each match with Talia, Lever, Doedee, Brown and Laird all capable of locking their opponent down. Not too many combinations of size and shape in the AFL that we can't cover with that lineup.

The last, and most relevant, question is whether we erred in keeping pick 13 when we might have been able to get him with a later pick and gain some quality elsewhere in the exchange.

It seems likely we were gambling on pick 13 scoring us Himmelberg, a gamble which didn't pay off. That's a pity, but I'd rather the club take calculated gambles when they get a chance to than just playing it safe all the time. Hard to bridge the gap between us and the best sides if you just play your cards straight up. You need to take some risks to get ahead.

Realistically, whichever way we went, the same fans who are unhappy now would still have been unhappy. If we traded down to a pick in the 30s and got some small improvement in our list, and then picked Doedee at that pick, people would be up in arms about how we traded away the chance to pick up Burton for a bag of magic beans and ended up with a player nobody had heard of anyway.

Overall it's a pity that we didn't get our first choice at pick 13, but probably not a disaster - as long as our recruitment team have done their jobs and Doedee is as good as they obviously think he is. Yeah, we could have walked away with a bit more than we got if we knew in advance what would happen, but that's the price you take for taking a gamble, and I'd prefer we continue to take those gambles going forward.

Good post. Is it the case that if othe rother clubs had bid earlier on other GWS players that they wouldn't have been able to match Himmleberg at our pick?
 
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You dont need to read phanton drafts to make your selection, thje reason peoples opinions are similar whether they be Mike Sheehan, Caro Wilson or even the phanton drafts for that matter is people have studied the potential talent coming through and have formed a similar poistion not because the kid has a good haircut but because he can play. Francis was picked as a top 10 because he was outstanding I watched him twice this year and he was a stand out granted it was college footy, but no one could touch him. Sharenberg is being touted as top 10 next year for the draft, if you watch him you would agree. Jarman is nowhere near as good, but will go because of his name.

Adelaide have taken a huge punt, Ogilvie has all but admitted it, fine we deal with it but dont expect not to be questioned and if it fails critisized. If you have runs on the board like Hawthorn you can get away with it, but Adelaide are a mid pack club which we all want to be a top club so their bad decisions will be magnified
It's being criticised already. Before the kid has even rocked up for a training session.
 

Draft Bored

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You dont need to read phanton drafts to make your selection, thje reason peoples opinions are similar whether they be Mike Sheehan, Caro Wilson or even the phanton drafts for that matter is people have studied the potential talent coming through and have formed a similar poistion...

You think Caro/Quayle/Twomey/Anderson/Cardona spend as much time as our recruiting team watching these players?

My guess is they would spend 5% as much time compared with the team of recruiters the crows have in place around the country.

I'm backing the crows every day of the week before any media flog.
 

Pdub

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The reason we didn't downgrade our second pick is because we didn't know Curnow would get caught drink driving. If Carlton took Curnow at their pick 8, we could have taken H.McKay at 9 and Milera at 13 which is probably what the club was hoping for.

The reason we didn't bid on Hopper at 9 is because we rated him behind Milera. Even if we did GWS would most likely go into debt to get their picks, because they know they have the discount again next year to get academy kids and will most likely have some talent ask for a trade out which will give them more top picks.
 

Mego Red

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WTF?????? Im glad he was on the crows list of stars as he was predicted by all experts as a later than Top 40 pick in a shallow draft. SEN reported yesterday a couple of clubs were targeting him towards the end of the draft. Yet we used a first rounder. Ogilvie in the Advertiser this morning all but agrees that they have taken a punt and we need to trust their instincts. Im sorry our team is going to be lucky to make the eight and hasnt been in a GF for almost twenty years and we are punting with first round draft picks on a HBF when key position players where available.

Himmelberg was far from a gamble compared to a player that not one person considered anywhere near first round draft selection. Punting on Burtons injury would have such greater upside its not funny, then you had Collins or Balic or even Bonner who was rated higher up the scheme of things than Doedee

Why do you say Doedee wasnt a punt, because you were told by the AFC?

Predicted by all experts???

You mean, people who DON'T do it for a living??

The Crows recruiting team has done tremendous work, but you're willing to back in a bunch of amateur phantom drafters over people who ACTUALLY have their balls on the line??
 

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