Toast Welcome Luke Lowden and Kyle Cheney

Sep 7, 2005
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How so?

They brought in 2 x experienced 1st 22 players to strengthen their chances in 2015.

By using FA to do that, they lost nothing long term as they retained 3 x picks in the top 40 - 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders all in tact. They lost Greenwood but he's 25 so that does not really harm their future.

They recruited for the now and for the future - I thought they killed it.

It does harm their future. They have a lot of guns that are getting on now. And i don't think they recruited for the future. They recruited for a shot at the flag in 15 or 16. they miss out in the next 2 years, they will slide

Harvey, Petrie, Waite, NDS are all pushing 30 or well past it

Higgins is injury prone (as is Waite)

They have put their eggs in 1 basket. they need it to pay off now or it will be a struggle.....
 
Jun 7, 2011
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Oh please, Hendo is a complete waste of space who we should delist. Has no football nous at all. Has 1 attribute, straight line speed, nothing else.

If he has a place in the side it's on the wing. Unlike Mackay he does have actual speed and a booming leg that can easily clear zones and give a deep forward a genuine 1 on 1. Instead, we've had Mackay gathering his usual high teens possession count with plenty of them being handballs. Hopefully we now have a coaching group that will place players in positions to utilise their strengths.
 

fatbarber

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It does harm their future. They have a lot of guns that are getting on now. And i don't think they recruited for the future. They recruited for a shot at the flag in 15 or 16. they miss out in the next 2 years, they will slide

Harvey, Petrie, Waite, NDS are all pushing 30 or well past it

Higgins is injury prone (as is Waite)

They have put their eggs in 1 basket. they need it to pay off now or it will be a struggle.....

Agree 100% if they win a flag in the next two years they will look like heros but if not! - They will slide and slide hard after 2016
 

Tex200

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It does harm their future. They have a lot of guns that are getting on now. And i don't think they recruited for the future. They recruited for a shot at the flag in 15 or 16. they miss out in the next 2 years, they will slide

Harvey, Petrie, Waite, NDS are all pushing 30 or well past it

Higgins is injury prone (as is Waite)

They have put their eggs in 1 basket. they need it to pay off now or it will be a struggle.....
I don't understand how people think they have not looked to the future.

They had their top 2 picks last year and they still have their top 2 picks this year.

The perception that they are not looking to the future is not supported by any evidence at all.

Had they traded top picks for old players then fair enough - but they used FA. All it's cost is some cap space and a couple of list spots.

Surely it's perfect use of FA - add for the now, don't lose picks for the future?
 
Jun 7, 2011
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For mine Lowden was the "get" of the deal. Cheney meh.

Lowden is just about grown into his body, maybe a year longer. Could be absolutely anything as a KPF and back up ruck.

Reckon Cheney might surprise. Looking at the inside footy write up was given some massive jobs. Obviously has a pretty good defensive system in front of him that might be lacking with us, but was obviously rated enough to get the tough jobs when in the firsts.
 

Tex200

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Reckon Cheney might surprise. Looking at the inside footy write up was given some massive jobs. Obviously has a pretty good defensive system in front of him that might be lacking with us, but was obviously rated enough to get the tough jobs when in the firsts.
Would love to be proved wrong.

One thing we do know from Walsh - he's got him to play him, so we're not going to die wondering
 
Jun 7, 2011
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Nobes has discovered another secret (left footers not so secret any more). Gingers are easier to spot on the field by team mates (neon white limbs as well as hair) and have improved disposal efficiency to them.

EDIT - Unless we have any players who are red/green colourblind of course - then hard to pick out from the grass.

Great club men because they've got eff all chance of rooting their team mates partners as well.
 
Cheney will be very handy for you guys, especially as a motivator for the younger kids. He's solid on a number three forward but can't hold his own against the Hawkins types (not through lack of effort).

Lowden is coming in to his prime. Handy tap ruckman and athletic ability. Can play forward and snag goals.

Can't hold it against these fellas leaving for more AFL game time. Will be very handy for ADL.
 
Jun 7, 2011
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I'm waiting to see how good they are in preseason and beyond before committing to anything, but I'm warming to the notion of Lowden replacing Jenkins, and Jenkins replacing Podsiadly. At least to see if it can work.

Although he may be an upgrade, I still don't want to see a 3 genuine tall plus lynch fwd structure. Will be interesting to see how we structure our fwd line this year.
 

Dredd

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The hair style is anything but new. Lots of that style hidden underneath the hats that fill up those old black and white photo's.
Never said it was new per say but it is trending atm
 

Apsaalooke

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You can't judge Cheney on a mismatch. He's the same height as Jimmy Bartel. How do you think Bartel would match up on Hawkins whose 10 cm taller.

Not too many teams are silly enough to run 3 tall forwards like we did. Talia, Hartigan, Cheney and Brown are your lock downs with Jaensch and Smith the release players. Doesn't strike fear in the opposition but is a serviceable defense if the mids do some 2 way running for a change..
 

Tex200

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I think its easy to be a bit seduced by the popular, and true, notion that he was played out of position so what do people expect - he was set up to fail.

The question we should be asking is, having done an apparently manful job in the mis matches, why was he never called to play in a position which suited and developed him.
 

DroppingTheBall

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Jul 12, 2014
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The question we should be asking is, having done an apparently manful job in the mis matches, why was he never called to play in a position which suited and developed him.

Which Hawks backs do you think he should have displaced if he was good?
 
Sep 7, 2005
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I don't understand how people think they have not looked to the future.

They had their top 2 picks last year and they still have their top 2 picks this year.

The perception that they are not looking to the future is not supported by any evidence at all.

Had they traded top picks for old players then fair enough - but they used FA. All it's cost is some cap space and a couple of list spots.

Surely it's perfect use of FA - add for the now, don't lose picks for the future?

Sure they have their top picks, but so does every club

Yes, its a good use of the FA system. But the top picks they have now, won't get those players into the 100-130 game slot you need to challenge for a flag (statistically) for 5-6 years and the players i listed will be gone in 2 years, maybe 3 max

They are going for the now and will see a slight drop if they miss out for a 2-3 year window and then they'll have a crack again
 

Tex200

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Sure they have their top picks, but so does every club

Yes, its a good use of the FA system. But the top picks they have now, won't get those players into the 100-130 game slot you need to challenge for a flag (statistically) for 5-6 years and the players i listed will be gone in 2 years, maybe 3 max

They are going for the now and will see a slight drop if they miss out for a 2-3 year window and then they'll have a crack again
But they have a number of players they have been developed over the last 5-7 years who are now coming into their primes (Cunnington, Ziebell etc), adding the FA compliments them with some added experience.

The kids they drafted in the last couple of years and this year should develop and be complimented by the current lot. Think of kids like McDonald with 70-100 games supported by Ziebell et al with over 180-200 games.

I would argue that they should actually be stronger in 2-3 years time.
 

DD#23

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No point playing that game.

If he was good enough he would have forced his way in.

He was there what - 4 years?
while you do have a point, there's no point in playing your game before he's even pulled on the hoops either.

no one is trying to claim we got two gems for a second round pick, but with any luck they'll be serviceable if and when they're required. Cheney especially wouldn't need to do much to be an upgrade on Shaw or Henderson down back so what's the problem? Those two sure as hell wouldn't get a run in Hawthorns side either, so for now we just take what we can get without trading away the kind of picks we haven't seen for two years.
 

Apsaalooke

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No point playing that game.

If he was good enough he would have forced his way in.

He was there what - 4 years?
Well lets play the game anyway. Name some names.

There are lots of examples of clubs poaching undervalued players who then go on to succeed. Sydney have made an art form out of it. Will Cheney be in that group? I don't know but we got him for next to nothing so its worth the gamble. As someone said, the alternatives in Shaw, Reilly, L Thompson (and even Otten in the last couple of years) make you cringe.
 

BobaFett

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Although he may be an upgrade, I still don't want to see a 3 genuine tall plus lynch fwd structure. Will be interesting to see how we structure our fwd line this year.
The structure should never have been that, and it is one of the reasons the coach lost his job, he couldnt drop his friend, and instead changed the shape of the whole team to cater for Jpod.

The structure will be walker, lynch and jenkins. The only way lowden plays is if jenkins is playing to a Mckernan standard. Jpod shouldn't and won't play one game unless there is an injury
 
Jun 7, 2011
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I think its easy to be a bit seduced by the popular, and true, notion that he was played out of position so what do people expect - he was set up to fail.

The question we should be asking is, having done an apparently manful job in the mis matches, why was he never called to play in a position which suited and developed him.

Hopefully it's something like him being the 4th in line for 3 small/mid defender spots in the premiership team. It does beg the question as to why he came in and effectively took the opponents number 1 though rather than a shuffle. Maybe thats just how hawthorn roll.
 

Tex200

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while you do have a point, there's no point in playing your game before he's even pulled on the hoops either.

no one is trying to claim we got two gems for a second round pick, but with any luck they'll be serviceable if and when they're required. Cheney especially wouldn't need to do much to be an upgrade on Shaw or Henderson down back so what's the problem? Those two sure as hell wouldn't get a run in Hawthorns side either, so for now we just take what we can get without trading away the kind of picks we haven't seen for two years.
Fair call -hope I'm wrong
 
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