Strategy What are we going to do about centre half forward?

[Partridge]

Is it unfair of me to feel Brown would be a safer bet than Walker? I feel like both could potentially disappear in the games and not contribute or help greatly but that Walker would be more likely to possibly 'hurt' by making a mistake.

Of course, either could be complete failures. However, it would be grossly unfair to single them out (not that that's going to stop anyone), because if anyone has disappeared in recent weeks Kersten has.

Depends what they want, if they want a forward who can assist in the ruck if required they may go with Walker. If they want a forward who can assist in the backline it might be Brown.

 

[speedybundy]

I reckon a part of our rise in form over the past few weeks has been through the team becoming more settled, Scotty seems close to finalized on the team and changes should be avoided where possible as previously mentioned.

In hindsight I think Brown could have been given more a crack, really showed something against Adelaide in round 1 and I think his a real confidence player. But let's not forget Scott has tried Mcintosh and (I think) Blicavs in extended stints at CHF early in the year without much success. Why risk ruining either of their good form by doing that again

 

[thegerman]

May be working, still shouldn't stop looking for ways to improve things though surely.



I fear you may be correct, in which case the odds of us winning a fourth premiership lengthen considerably IMO, can't go with a bloke who finds the footy as little as Kersten does, and Brown and Walker are just not up to it as shown in the past.

I'd go with PremierCatAttacks suggestion, actually said so several pages back, of Simpson coming into the side and rotating McIntosh and Blicavs through CHF [mind you I may change my mind several times before September ] not ideal but the best we can come up with seeing as how we really have no genuine contender for the job.

As stated above, near to no chance Simpson coming back this week. Injured back a week ago, played only one qtr in the vfl. Missed last week.

Highly doubt MC would see him fit enough for rest of year tbh.

 

[Partridge]

I reckon a part of our rise in form over the past few weeks has been through the team becoming more settled, Scotty seems close to finalized on the team and changes should be avoided where possible as previously mentioned.

In hindsight I think Brown could have been given more a crack, really showed something against Adelaide in round 1 and I think his a real confidence player. But let's not forget Scott has tried Mcintosh and (I think) Blicavs in extended stints at CHF early in the year without much success. Why risk ruining either of their good form by doing that again

McIntosh yes, Blicavs no, he never had any kind of run at CHF. And now he's supporting McIntosh well, as you say why you'd want to change it is beyond me. McIntosh played one very good game swapping between ruck and CHF - against Hawthorn in Round 5. But he's a way better ruckman than forward, and with Simpson not being there he must ruck this week, and for the rest of the season.

 

[strauchnyy]

Is he? You could make a case after his first few games. But he's kicked 1 goal in 4 games since and is barely getting a kick. He's the only one of the three to ever get 8 successive weeks in the seniors, so it's not like he hasn't had a good shot at it. For pure goals per game this year Walker is the best (1.5), and for actually getting the ball Kersten is the worst (6.9 disposals per game, behind Walker on 8.0 and Brown on 10.3).

He might well be the best of the three. He might be by a long way. But right now I'd say it's not quite that clear.

I think the numbers are irrelevant in determining who is better. Walker played 2 games so his numbers in the AFL are inflated. Brown similar.

If you look at all three and have to pick one who is best suited to play, I'd pick Kersten every time. You only have to look at Walker's game against Freo in last year's final to know why he shouldn't be in our team at the business end. His poor skills and ability to drop easy marks are too significant. Brown has shown very little at AFL level in key games and gets pushed off the ball to easily.

Kersten has been down the last few weeks, probably due to confidence (it is his 7th or 8th game after-all), but he showed more in his first 3 or so than both Walker and Brown ever have at AFL. I take that into consideration along with that he has the skills of brown, whilst being strong like walker. He has the better foundations to play well than both Walker and Brown at the business end. I think the current issue with Kersten is mental, not ability. He just needs to demand the footy more and have his team mates kick to him and give him easy ball. Brown is to weak for finals and Walker's skills are Melbourne standard - both not good enough for finals.

I also would not chop and change the lineup so close to finals, unless you were guaranteed to bring in a gun. When it is as close as 50/50 you leave it for team balance.

 

[speedybundy]

McIntosh yes, Blicavs no, he never had any kind of run at CHF. And now he's supporting McIntosh well, as you say why you'd want to change it is beyond me. McIntosh played one very good game swapping between ruck and CHF - against Hawthorn in Round 5. But he's a way better ruckman than forward, and with Simpson not being there he must ruck this week, and for the rest of the season.

Yeah wasn't 100% sure on Blics, I had a feeling he played 1 or 2 games down there but couldn't remember for how long

 

[Rainfall]

It's effectively Hawkins. Yes, Mooney led up the ground more than Hawk, but Mooney was our focal point with Nathan, Hawk and Pods playing 2nd string.

Now Hawk is the focal point but we are struggling to find that effective 2nd tall.

In a sense, we are not missing Mooney, we are missing Nathan (or young Hawk or 'young' Pods).

Hey CE, speak for yourself! I agree in sense we are not missing Mooney, BUT I am missing him!

 

[Rainfall]

I think Blicavs will end up a backmen in the long term based on we have many people who could take on CHF if needed (Walker, Brown and if needed Hmac/Vardy with Simpson in the ruck)

 

[Partridge]

I think the numbers are irrelevant in determining who is better. Walker played 2 games so his numbers in the AFL are inflated. Brown similar.

Walker played 4 games. Brown played 3.

If you look at all three and have to pick one who is best suited to play, I'd pick Kersten every time. You only have to look at Walker's game against Freo in last year's final to know why he shouldn't be in our team at the business end. His poor skills and ability to drop easy marks are too significant. Brown has shown very little at AFL level in key games and gets pushed off the ball to easily.

Sure, Walker's game against Fremantle last year was a shocker. It was also last season. I'm not convinced he's going to be the answer either, but if he's showing good form in the VFL that's all you can ask. I'd like to know how many "key games" Brown has even played in. What's not in dispute is that the last time we lost with him in the side was mid-2011.

Kersten has been down the last few weeks, probably due to confidence (it is his 7th or 8th game after-all), but he showed more in his first 3 or so than both Walker and Brown ever have at AFL. I take that into consideration along with that he has the skills of brown, whilst being strong like walker. He has the better foundations to play well than both Walker and Brown at the business end. I think the current issue with Kersten is mental, not ability. He just needs to demand the footy more and have his team mates kick to him and give him easy ball. Brown is to weak for finals and Walker's skills are Melbourne standard - both not good enough for finals.

I also would not chop and change the lineup so close to finals, unless you were guaranteed to bring in a gun. When it is as close as 50/50 you leave it for team balance.

That's just personal preference. Right now none of them are the definite answer, we simply don't know. The summary of that entire paragraph could be "I like Kersten better, therefore he is." How you can know for sure the final bolded sentence is beyond me.

 

[strauchnyy]

Walker played 4 games. Brown played 3.



Sure, Walker's game against Fremantle last year was a shocker. It was also last season. I'm not convinced he's going to be the answer either, but if he's showing good form in the VFL that's all you can ask. I'd like to know how many "key games" Brown has even played in. What's not in dispute is that the last time we lost with him in the side was mid-2011.



That's just personal preference. Right now none of them are the definite answer, we simply don't know. The summary of that entire paragraph could be "I like Kersten better, therefore he is." How you can know for sure the final bolded sentence is beyond me.

Not really.

From the games walker has played, he has made many, many errors (or clangers) at crucial moments - similar to Burbury at the start of this year. It's not just that game against Freo, but I can remember many easy dropped marks and terrible field kicks to allow me to make the above post's assessment of him.

With reference to Brown, he has hardly looked solid at AFL level. Whilst he has done a few nice things here and there (nice leads etc), he is not the sort of player that is suited to a contested game in a finals like atmosphere. This is due to his weak frame. Leads with uncontested marks against lower opposition is Ok, but this alone will not stand up in finals as he gets pushed aside in marking contests and defenders are better in finals. He doesn't have that 'endeavor' or 'mongrel' in him that you need when scores a level 5 minutes to go in a final. You can argue Kersten hasn't been in that situation either, and that is fair enough. BUT, if I had to pick one of Kersten or Brown to be in the forward line with Selwood running towards goal, I know who I would pick. Kersten is stronger and has that footy nous that I am yet to see in Brown.

At the end of the day, the options are:

1 - strong forward with a tank with a bit of 'mongrel' but, drops easy marks, poor skill set, coughs it up more than the other options; or
2 - Skillful leading forward, but lacks 'mongrel', is not strong and consequently a liability in a ferocious tight contest; or
3 - Skillful, strong yet undersized, currently a bit too timid to take the game on but has the most talent out of the 3.

I'd go 3 every time for a final.

the third option also allows our team to be settled (as the 3rd option has been in the team of late), and the draw backs of the 3rd option are the easiest to be fixed IMO.

I am basing my opinion on nothing put observation of the 3 players, so obviously this is not known 'for sure', but it's how I see it, and how I think the match committee see it.

 

[_Me_]

Paton
Offer up our first round pick plus brown n stringer
Done

 

[Partridge]

Paton
Offer up our first round pick plus brown n stringer
Done

Makes sense. We need another big guy with bad knees. He'll have had 2 knee reconstructions by the time he arrives so plenty of time for more.

 

[you pick one]

Makes sense. We need another big guy with bad knees. He'll have had 2 knee reconstructions by the time he arrives so plenty of time for more.

If any club would take a punt I reckon it would be us,but no Idea what we would be prepared to pay or give up.Risky but it has Geelong all over it.

 

[David the Cat]

Sort of a Leigh Colbert scenario in reverse...….didnt North poach him recovering from knee surgery?

Anyway, not keen on the idea myself but stranger things have happened.

 

[you pick one]

Sort of a Leigh Colbert scenario in reverse...….didnt North poach him recovering from knee surgery?

Anyway, not keen on the idea myself but stranger things have happened.

Yep and me neither and won't happen.

 

[Stig_90]

With Kersten injured tonight and way down on form anyway, the decision on whether to bring in another key forward has been made for us. Even if Kersten's injury isn't serious, it's time to make a change.

So who comes in? I'd go with Brown, we tried Walker last finals series and he went missing against Freo in that first final.

 

[Jagshemash]

With Kersten injured tonight and way down on form anyway, the decision on whether to bring in another key forward has been made for us. Even if Kersten's injury isn't serious, it's time to make a change.

So who comes in? I'd go with Brown, we tried Walker last finals series and he went missing against Freo in that first final.

I think Brown offers more, forward or back. Could switch with Taylor for example. We need to be flexible, as I mentioned in another thread, I reckon we need to be radical with our structures. Only against Sydney do we really need 3 KPD.

 

[Moneypenny]

Not that big a fan of Walker, I like Mitch's accuracy and higher disposal game. If he can play a game à la R1 for the next month or so I'd be quite content. Ideally we'd have a hawk/mb/Kersten forward line but that wouldn't happen when it was possible and it can't happen now.

 

[Cursed Cat]

if you bring Brown in and he's not playing well, you theoretically have the option of throwing him back in a swap with Taylor, or even maybe Rivers.

 

[BotsMaster]

Haven't seen much of Brown this year, but Walker's performance last year is enough for me to go with Brown.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Walker for me. Last years final is not that relevant imo. In that game Hawkins pulled out and Walker was the main target. This time around (touchwood) Hawkins will be there, I think of the two he's a better option as the 2nd tall forward imo.

 

[cats_09]

I notice the presence of Walker more then I do of Brown when they have each been given a shot.
Brown has his moments of being very good, and while he kicked 3 goals against Adelaide, he could have just as easily been playing as the 3rd tall or a crumbing forward for the way those goals came about - he can be solid but he can also be frustrating at times where he is next to useless (as with Kersten over the past few weeks). I would go Brown if we went a with a 3 tall forward line, but not sure about him going with just the 2 talls.
Walker has an energy about him, he always looks like he wants to be involved and have an impact, but just hasn't quite got there yet. If it clicks for him, then he would be a very useful player - just needs that one match where it goes right for him, like when Hawkins stood up in the '11 gf and other then being injured last year he hasn't looked back. Hopefully when Walker's moment/game comes, it isn't due to an injury though.

 

[Vdubs]

Brown has been productive, patient and injury free, offers more class, which will certainly not go astray in finals, and has more nous both forward and back.
I like Walker's intensity, but his rawness still needs refining, and we don't have time for that this season.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Anybody but Walker - god id rather the bloke standing outside of Hoyts than Walker

Oh i forget Walker is so lion hearted

 

[romeoh]

Brown.