Autopsy What did you learn from the NAB Challenge

[The King!]

I'd like to see Franklin spend more time up the ground this year. We have guys like McGlynn, Bird, Jack, Towers who can all create havoc in the forward 50 either running into space, crumbing or clearing space for the big forwards. Goodes is 2 forwards in one with his ability to play tall or small. If we can also dominate around 50-70 metres out through Franklin going a-roving (especially when Tippet is resting forward), Goodes going into the midfield, Jetta on a burst, Rohan and our backs getting forward to help (Shaw is pretty good outside the arc) then we become a less predictable attacking team, we lock the ball inside and we spread the goal-kicking load. Hawks have a good formula that our defenders find difficult to match, and will continue to do so, but we can also become a more challenging team to defend. I think the Tippet/Pyke combo will work well in the ruck. We can get first use but we also need to shut down the opposition. That's why I would pencil in JPK & Bird first of any midfielders. Our best ball-getter and our best man-stopper. Jetta and Rohan on the wings to create some more space to work in or to help run the ball out of defence (I don't see either spending the games locked down back), Reid as a swingman helping out down back, causing matchup headaches forward or giving us an out on the rebound. Macca seems best suited to fill Malceski's role. If he had the ball our boys would be running to space anywhere within 50 metres to receive. He may not have Mal's carry but he's a better kick.

All sounds ok but which arc is shaw good outside of? The boundary i presume?

 

[daymee]

I can live with that, when the ugly duckling looks to have 200 gamer stamped on him you know it's good times ahead.

Imagine it..... Mitchell, Heeney, Parker, Cunningham and Mills with 3 more years of development - they'd all be 25 or under and just entering the best years of their careers.

Then imagine they'll be playing with Josh Kennedy, who'll still be in his twenties and then there's Hannebery hitting the peak years of his career.... don't forget Zac Jones and Gary Rohan and maybe throw in Josh Dunkley for good measure. We could draft rucks and KPP's for the next 5 years and still be rock solid around the ground

Getting a bit carried away here but If we can get a few of our talls (any of Naismith, Nankervis, Reid, Aliir, Mellican and fingers crossed AJ) to lock down even a couple of positions we're laughing... and probably doing so for the next decade.

If Melican doesn't get promoted, I will eat my 2015 members cap with tomato sauce

 

[bungee]

All sounds ok but which arc is shaw good outside of? The boundary i presume?

I don't get the criticism of Shaw. He plays his part, he breaks lines and carries and he hit a couple of lovely inside 50s in the 1st quarter. He's a walk up best 22.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

All sounds ok but which arc is shaw good outside of? The boundary i presume?

that would be the one, preferably

 

[The King!]

I don't get the criticism of Shaw. He plays his part, he breaks lines and carries and he hit a couple of lovely inside 50s in the 1st quarter. He's a walk up best 22.

Do you watch him play? He cannot actually kick anymore, wouldnt let him play kick to kick in the backyard the garden would be ruined after he kicked 90% of the kicks over my head into the bushes

 

[Punts]

Shawy is on the way out sorry

 

[melbournehammer]

Do you watch him play? He cannot actually kick anymore, wouldnt let him play kick to kick in the backyard the garden would be ruined after he kicked 90% of the kicks over my head into the bushes

with respect that described almost our entire team.

I think it will clearly be his last season. But he does provide run off half back and doesnt shirk the ball. grundy, richards, smith are not what you would call great users and dont provide much in the way of run. rampe does but his kicking which has more penetration than shaw's can be horrible at times. rohan hits a shocker at least once a game. i haven't seen enough of jones to have an opinion yet. mcveigh has no pace and cant break lines. jetta has pace and can break lines but i worry about him one on one in a way that i dont actually with shaw.

In short we really need to either have someone claim the position or accept shaw's errors by foot. I think it will be his position until someone takes it off him or his disposals hurt us more than what he does bring to the team

and i think he has been a very very good player for sydney. we have got a lot of use out of a guy who was collingwood all over and who when he left there we got told that his disposal by foot was very poor - well that hasn't changed that much but he has brought organisation, discipline and a drive to win.

the sad thing is that we had four half back flankers - tadgh, mal, shaw and mattner - who could all run and carry and take players on or hit targets. we are down to last one.

 

[Superstar swan]

I don't get the criticism of Shaw. He plays his part, he breaks lines and carries and he hit a couple of lovely inside 50s in the 1st quarter. He's a walk up best 22.

While he understandsbly is not as effective as he once was,i didnt think he was terrible in nab...after the rok situation last year,if horse sees shaw as best 22 then he is best 22

 

[Number37]

Shawy is on the way out sorry

More importantly we have an opportunity to give a youngster a go, a youngster who would most likely make as many mistakes as Shaw anyway, but there would be upside.
AJ got thrown in the deep end and went from strength to strength.

 

[The King!]

with respect that described almost our entire team.

I think it will clearly be his last season. But he does provide run off half back and doesnt shirk the ball. grundy, richards, smith are not what you would call great users and dont provide much in the way of run. rampe does but his kicking which has more penetration than shaw's can be horrible at times. rohan hits a shocker at least once a game. i haven't seen enough of jones to have an opinion yet. mcveigh has no pace and cant break lines. jetta has pace and can break lines but i worry about him one on one in a way that i dont actually with shaw.

In short we really need to either have someone claim the position or accept shaw's errors by foot. I think it will be his position until someone takes it off him or his disposals hurt us more than what he does bring to the team

and i think he has been a very very good player for sydney. we have got a lot of use out of a guy who was collingwood all over and who when he left there we got told that his disposal by foot was very poor - well that hasn't changed that much but he has brought organisation, discipline and a drive to win.

the sad thing is that we had four half back flankers - tadgh, mal, shaw and mattner - who could all run and carry and take players on or hit targets. we are down to last one.

i just dont think we can carry his run and carry, it was ineffective too often, if he cannot perform id rather try a youngster

perhaps if someone in say 46 had of shown promise we could of kept them in the side

 

[RUNVS]

More importantly we have an opportunity to give a youngster a go, a youngster who would most likely make as many mistakes as Shaw anyway, but there would be upside.
AJ got thrown in the deep end and went from strength to strength.

He wasn't really. AJ was behind Richards and Grundy in defence so it meant he was able to learn by playing on an oppositions 3rd tall forward.

 

[Number37]

He wasn't really. AJ was behind Richards and Grundy in defence so it meant he was able to learn by playing on an oppositions 3rd tall forward.

I don't mean given the harder or hardest tasks, they saw what AJ had to offer and gave him the chance to develop his game to the next level at the next level.
Don't get me wrong, I like what Shaw brings with run and carry and taking the game on, but it is not indispensable especially when we have Jetta, Rampe, Rohan all capable of doing the same thing.
Most importantly we have to make some minor adjustments to our game and I am merely suggesting trying something different personnel wise, hopefully that will go some way to contribute to the improvement of our shockingly bad ball use.

 

[bungee]

Do you watch him play? He cannot actually kick anymore, wouldnt let him play kick to kick in the backyard the garden would be ruined after he kicked 90% of the kicks over my head into the bushes

His last NAB game was solid. He grubbed one kick along the ground but that was after side stepping several opposition players and running the ball out of defence. He puts his head over the ball and goes hard. He gets to the right places and he clicks with his fellow defenders. As for trying someone new in defence....Jetta, Rohan, Reid, Jones, Xav & Rampe have all been tried so far and Rampe is the only one who's proved he can hack it in the cauldron, and even then was found wanting in the GF. Shaw also acts as one of the generals in defence. He directs traffic and he breaks lines. That last is the hardest thing to do. Sometimes he gets tackled, often his final disposal is poor but we'd be a weaker side without him. There'll be opportunities to try new players in defence this year but Horse would be wise to be cautious. Chinks in defence are very quickly exploited.

You, Punts and a few others seem to have a thing against Shaw. Perhaps you don't fully understand what he brings to the team. Horse obviously does. Richards, Grundy, Smith & Shaw would be his first line of defenders. If Shaw goes out it'll be injury that takes him.

 

[The King!]

His last NAB game was solid. He grubbed one kick along the ground but that was after side stepping several opposition players and running the ball out of defence. He puts his head over the ball and goes hard. He gets to the right places and he clicks with his fellow defenders. As for trying someone new in defence....Jetta, Rohan, Reid, Jones, Xav & Rampe have all been tried so far and Rampe is the only one who's proved he can hack it in the cauldron, and even then was found wanting in the GF. Shaw also acts as one of the generals in defence. He directs traffic and he breaks lines. That last is the hardest thing to do. Sometimes he gets tackled, often his final disposal is poor but we'd be a weaker side without him. There'll be opportunities to try new players in defence this year but Horse would be wise to be cautious. Chinks in defence are very quickly exploited.

You, Punts and a few others seem to have a thing against Shaw. Perhaps you don't fully understand what he brings to the team. Horse obviously does. Richards, Grundy, Smith & Shaw would be his first line of defenders. If Shaw goes out it'll be injury that takes him.

Shaw is some hard head over the ball super general ? Mostly racks up uncontested possies and goes at about 60 per cent efficiency

He was a good player, but last year was ordinary. The trade ban and malceski going js the only reason he is there


Perhaps put the electrifying 80s dvd away and watch the modern game and you may see what punts and others see

Either way i hope you are right and he has a fantastic year, but the odds at his age of the performance curve going up seem remote to me and seems silly to hold off another year of trying someone new

Already let biggs go for a start

 

[Punts]

Shaw has been poor in all 3 NAB , hasn't provided any run and has been caught out a few to many times. just my opinion

 

[bungee]

Ah, you two.......licking each others' posts (I meant liking)

I'm reminded of the quote "All opinions are valid, but some are more valid than others"

EDIT : For the record, Shaw's 2014 stats run almost on a par with Malceski. In 2014 Shaw's disposal efficiency was over 75% and he was one of the few to stand up in the GF.

Seems Horse watches the same games that I do, yet every year you get a few people saying so-and-so is too old, let's give some teen-wunderkind a go. That's fine, they're entitled to have an opinion (see quote above).

 

[S120]

Shaw to me is still valuable for a number of reasons but a hindrance to how the backline works for one big reason.

The valuable things he gives:

- over 200 games of experience with respect to how he uses his body and how to beat an opponent one-on-one
- prime confidence to play on good small forwards and keep them quiet
- clearly a very popular leader amongst the team, a guy who never doesn't talk, encourage and instruct
- hard as nails, will always run straight through the ball or man involved in the contest and will never shy away from contact
- still has his line-breaking pace which is very useful to break apart a team to get the ball forward

The big hindrance:

- his disposal has never been particularly consistent and it seems like it's getting less consistent when rebounding out of the backline. When he's putting the ball inside 50, he makes a good habit of finding short targets well but coming off halfback, he has been turning the ball over pretty badly. Of course, that can hurt a lot given the defenders are moving forward and are out of position for a quick turnover.

He's not a spent force but, if Jetta and Rohan are going to play in defence, I'd be more tempted to play Jeremy Laidler. He is just as sound defensively as Shaw, has far more sound disposal but lacks the pure foot speed of Shaw. I'm happy for Shaw to remain in the side at this stage though.

 

[Membling]

Things I learned:

Towers seems to be coming round the bend. Written him off for the last few years but looks a likely utility type.

Heeney.

If Mills is better than Heeney, I am very excited

 

[bungee]

For the record, Shaw's 2014 stats run almost on a par with Malceski. Shaw's disposal efficiency was over 75%.

Shaw to me is still valuable for a number of reasons but a hindrance to how the backline works for one big reason.

The valuable things he gives:

- over 200 games of experience with respect to how he uses his body and how to beat an opponent one-on-one
- prime confidence to play on good small forwards and keep them quiet
- clearly a very popular leader amongst the team, a guy who never doesn't talk, encourage and instruct
- hard as nails, will always run straight through the ball or man involved in the contest and will never shy away from contact
- still has his line-breaking pace which is very useful to break apart a team to get the ball forward

The big hindrance:

- his disposal has never been particularly consistent and it seems like it's getting less consistent when rebounding out of the backline. When he's putting the ball inside 50, he makes a good habit of finding short targets well but coming off halfback, he has been turning the ball over pretty badly. Of course, that can hurt a lot given the defenders are moving forward and are out of position for a quick turnover.

He's not a spent force but, if Jetta and Rohan are going to play in defence, I'd be more tempted to play Jeremy Laidler. He is just as sound defensively as Shaw, has far more sound disposal but lacks the pure foot speed of Shaw. I'm happy for Shaw to remain in the side at this stage though.

>75% disposal efficiency in 2014, roughly the same as Mal. I think we tend to see his misses magnified as they are so often at the end of a good bit of run, dodge and carry. When he breaks the lines, side-steps 2 players then runs and bounces to get through the defensive wall and into space (as in the NAB v GWS), it's then very disheartening if the kick doesn't find a target. So we see the poor disposal but forget that a few second ago the ball was deep inside our defensive 50 and we were in deep s**t. Let's not forget that in the first quarter alone (same game) he put two pinpoint passes inside 50 so he can kick alright. Shaw sets up a lot of rebound and that's important to the way we play our game. Having Jetta or Rohan running with him can only help. Sadly I don't see that Laidler can do the same role. He's just not a line breaker.

 

[bungee]

I learned that Jetta's ability to clear packs with a side step and a burst of speed, and then to hit targets by hand or foot is even better this year. He needs to be THE go to man on the outside. This could really be a big year for him. Good luck to the opposition player who gets the job of tagging him.

You go Leroy !

 

[bungee]

Things I learned:

Towers seems to be coming round the bend. Written him off for the last few years but looks a likely utility type.

Heeney.

If Mills is better than Heeney, I am very excited

I can see that !

 

[momentbymoment]

Jetta to me is the wild card. Seeing him with his fists clenched and shirt ripped, gave me so much hope moving forward.

If he can move into a key defensive line breaker and distributer so many of our problems are solved. He seems to be loving the space and is more confidence in his fitness levels.