What do people think of Creationism?

[madmug]

Nah I'm more trying to understand how it can be such a big movement at odds with evident science.
I had religion shoved down my throat as a child ( its a good thing to do to your kids, less chance of them being "born again" later ) , and I didn't see a conflict between religion and science at the time.
But now it seems there is this move where the bible is to be taken literally, and science is to be shunned despite evidence and sometimes sheer blatant obviousness.

Their is a bit of an antiscience push from the loony religious right, & some sectors of business going on. Its all about ignoring inconvenient truths. This thread says '---think of creationism'. Is that a sort of Oxymoron?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Their is a bit of an antiscience push from the loony religious right, & some sectors of business going on. Its all about ignoring inconvenient truths. This thread says '---think of creationism'. Is that a sort of Oxymoron?

Yeah. As far as business goes, I'm sure you are talking about global warming. But it goes further than that. People in business look back at rapid increases in technology and "assume" it will continue at a similar rate. For example in the late 60's we put man on the moon , so people seriously thought we'd be colonizing the galaxy by now. In reality rapid development is often followed by incremental development with more and more work required for less reward.

 

[Partridge]

Yeah. As far as business goes, I'm sure you are talking about global warming. But it goes further than that. People in business look back at rapid increases in technology and "assume" it will continue at a similar rate. For example in the late 60's we put man on the moon , so people seriously thought we'd be colonizing the galaxy by now. In reality rapid development is often followed by incremental development with more and more work required for less reward.

It's not just global warming; there's a long and proud history of businesses trying to stop practices that were proven to be dangerous. It happened with tobacco, it happened with pesticides, it happened with CFCs, and it's now the ultimate test (which will fail) with climate change.

The bottom line is very, very, very rich people don't want to give up their money. They simply don't care about anything else.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's not just global warming; there's a long and proud history of businesses trying to stop practices that were proven to be dangerous. It happened with tobacco, it happened with pesticides, it happened with CFCs, and it's now the ultimate test (which will fail) with climate change.

The bottom line is very, very, very rich people don't want to give up their money. They simply don't care about anything else.

Fact is most can't. Most publicly listed companies simply cannot stop making money unless the means is banned.
Very very very rich people get to make other choices. The ownership of the Aldi chain was always interesting.

And don't assume that all businesses are making heaps of money. There would be many businesses where a decision to take the greenhouse gas friendly route would make them noncompetitive. Others with similar business would continue burning coal to push them out of business, at which point their conscientious actions would count for nothing. ( Yes some of these big businesses go broke, its not all just rolling in thousand dollar bills ).

 

[Pie eyed]

Nah I'm more trying to understand how it can be such a big movement at odds with evident science.
I had religion shoved down my throat as a child ( its a good thing to do to your kids, less chance of them being "born again" later ) , and I didn't see a conflict between religion and science at the time.
But now it seems there is this move where the bible is to be taken literally, and science is to be shunned despite evidence and sometimes sheer blatant obviousness.

That is the "beholding to the indoctrinated", and in power, like your Abbott's and Howard's, feathering the nests of the indoctrinated and ignorant the expense of the unconvinced and logical. It is a struggle for the "religious" vote who mindlessly vote according to their church edicts and both parties are guilty. Abbott however is stupid enough to believe as well as to attempt to profit from this voting block.
This would not be a problem in a religious state like ISIS but is totally unacceptable in a sectarian democracy like Australia.
It is evidence of the robust, educated and logical egalitarianism of our democracy and that people like Abbott are allowed to even run for Parliament let alone impose their ancient cult beliefs upon a sectarian nation.
I take pleasure knowing that Abbott and his cult following lackies will soon enough get the arse and a more educated Government will yet again over turn and wind back the regressionist laws he and his "followers" lump on to the normal people. That it will be progressively harder for religion to co-opt government as the oldest generation, the bulk of it's members, die off and education cuts a swathe through their prospective recruits from the young.
Mainstream religions will soon be a thing of the past in any event, consigned to the nutter fringe like astrology and homeopathy.
Education is an unstoppable juggernaut and the death-kneel of all cult dogma and supernatural woo.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That is the "beholding to the indoctrinated", and in power, like your Abbott's and Howard's, feathering the nests of the indoctrinated and ignorant the expense of the unconvinced and logical. It is a struggle for the "religious" vote who mindlessly vote according to their church edicts and both parties are guilty. Abbott however is stupid enough to believe as well as to attempt to profit from this voting block.
This would not be a problem in a religious state like ISIS but is totally unacceptable in a sectarian democracy like Australia.
It is evidence of the robust, educated and logical egalitarianism of our democracy and that people like Abbott are allowed to even run for Parliament let alone impose their ancient cult beliefs upon a sectarian nation.
I take pleasure knowing that Abbott and his cult following lackies will soon enough get the arse and a more educated Government will yet again over turn and wind back the regressionist laws he and his "followers" lump on to the normal people. That it will be progressively harder for religion to co-opt government as the oldest generation, the bulk of it's members, die off and education cuts a swathe through their prospective recruits from the young.
Mainstream religions will soon be a thing of the past in any event, consigned to the nutter fringe like astrology and homeopathy.
Education is an unstoppable juggernaut and the death-kneel of all cult dogma and supernatural woo.

I don't agree with that.
Are you suggesting that anyone who has personal religious beliefs should not be eligible for parliament?

 

[Pie eyed]

I don't agree with that.
Are you suggesting that anyone who has personal religious beliefs should not be eligible for parliament?

If those beliefs over power their common sense or rule their decision making..most definitely.
I think they are mentally flawed at best. Physically dangerous at worst.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If those beliefs over power their common sense or rule their decision making..most definitely.
I think they are mentally flawed at best. Physically dangerous at worst.

You may have problems passing the referendum you'd need to bring it in.

 

[Pie eyed]

You may have problems passing the referendum you'd need to bring it in.

Which referendum?
People make these judgements every time they vote.
You asked,I answered.
I am not pushing any barrow or trying to convince anyone.
Plenty of voters value a secular government greatly, just as many distrust religious interference.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Which referendum?
People make these judgements every time they vote.
You asked,I answered.
I am not pushing any barrow or trying to convince anyone.
Plenty of voters value a secular government greatly, just as many distrust religious interference.

You agreed that people with personal religious beliefs should not be eligible for parliament.
( you'd need a referendum to get that one in ).

As an example, its hard to see where Abbott's beliefs have caused his common sense to lapse below the level of common sense that Gillard had in the first place.

 

[Pie eyed]

You agreed that people with personal religious beliefs should not be eligible for parliament.
( you'd need a referendum to get that one in ).

As an example, its hard to see where Abbott's beliefs have caused his common sense to lapse below the level of common sense that Gillard had in the first place.

Firstly I agreed that people whose personal religious beliefs "over power their common sense or rule their decision making" should not be eligible for parliament. Secondly I don't need a referendum to support my belief? At least 30% of Australians are afflicted by a similar mental deficiency to Abbott but I'm confident time will see them off.
Abbott's tampering with the education system, imposition of religious indoctrination onto Public Schools and cutting funding to Science is enough evidence for me. Not to mention his life-long professed "faith" along with every public comment he has made on any subject dear to the christian faith.
Dragging Gillard into the discussion is moot. Nothing she does or did excuses anything Abbott does, has done or will do.
Don't go dragging Rudd in either I was no less scathing of his attempts to impose religion on secular public education.
I find it offensive they pray, at all, in any house of or at any time in our Parliament.
The fact is Abbott and a good part of his cabinet are religious zealots imposing their values on me, from with-in a secular framework they should not inhabit.

 

[ep2018]

If Abbott loses the next election then we have Shorten to look forward too, he is also a Catholic.

 

[Pie eyed]

If Abbott loses the next election then we have Shorten to look forward too, he is also a Catholic.

And?
I don't think I'll be any happier if he let's his Church dominate his decision making.
The fact is at the moment every leader is affiliated with religions, but only one Party is beholden. Howard saw to that, and both he and Abbott relied totally on their support to gain Government.
Nothing wrong with knowing which side your bread is buttered on , but to me, it's a huge issue if you actually believe your butter appeared from a burning rock in the stark absence of any cows. and some sky magician gave you the right to decide who gets some bread or perhaps how you should use your body.
That's a mental illness.

 

[Pie eyed]

And?
I don't think I'll be any happier if he let's his Church dominate his decision making.
The fact is at the moment every leader is affiliated with religions, but only one Party is beholden. Howard saw to that, and both he and Abbott relied totally on their support to gain Government.
Nothing wrong with knowing which side your bread is buttered on , but to me, it's a huge issue if you actually believe your butter appeared from a burning rock in the stark absence of any cows. and some sky magician gave you the right to decide who gets some bread or perhaps how you should use your body.
That's a mental illness.

PS. I'm a catholic too.
There are literally millions of us who do not believe at all in invisible sky Gods.

 

[ep2018]

PS. I'm a catholic too.
There are literally millions of us who do not believe at all in invisible sky Gods.

You appear as an atheist poster. How are you exactly Catholic?

 

[Pie eyed]

You appear as an atheist poster. How are you exactly Catholic?

I was christened a catholic, as was my Mother and hers...being catholic is just as likely tradition as faith. Probably more likely in fact.
My two daughters are both catholic and both attend catholic Primary Schools. Like my parents, I trust they will make informed decisions about what they believe when it comes to all such decisions.
Of my extended family, of those old enough to make a decision on such things (30 odd), only 3 are practicing catholic in that they actually believe in God, but all have been married in Church and all have had their children baptised and go through the various ceremonial stages.
I know literally hundreds of catholics who are purely catholic by tradition and family association who have absolutely no belief in God. Far far more than who are practicing.

 

[Pie eyed]

Hillsong born agains are the ones expanding, infiltrating mainstream society through crap like The Voice and X factor.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I was christened a catholic, as was my Mother and hers...being catholic is just as likely tradition as faith. Probably more likely in fact.
My two daughters are both catholic and both attend catholic Primary Schools. Like my parents, I trust they will make informed decisions about what they believe when it comes to all such decisions.
Of my extended family, of those old enough to make a decision on such things (30 odd), only 3 are practicing catholic in that they actually believe in God, but all have been married in Church and all have had their children baptised and go through the various ceremonial stages.
I know literally hundreds of catholics who are purely catholic by tradition and family association who have absolutely no belief in God. Far far more than who are practicing.

So you blast the likes of Abbot, yet choose to pay to send your children to a school which is religious in nature. Strange. I'm not sure that a lot of the catholic schools rate much higher than the public schools.

 

[ep2018]

I was christened a catholic, as was my Mother and hers...being catholic is just as likely tradition as faith. Probably more likely in fact.
My two daughters are both catholic and both attend catholic Primary Schools. Like my parents, I trust they will make informed decisions about what they believe when it comes to all such decisions.
Of my extended family, of those old enough to make a decision on such things (30 odd), only 3 are practicing catholic in that they actually believe in God, but all have been married in Church and all have had their children baptised and go through the various ceremonial stages.
I know literally hundreds of catholics who are purely catholic by tradition and family association who have absolutely no belief in God. Far far more than who are practicing.

My whole family is basically atheist (more like apatheist... was never brought up in religion so we never had a reason to believe in God) but every Good Friday we will make an effort to eat fish and no red meat. Christmas we play carols on the stereo and some are Jesus related. I'm going off topic here but I love how in Australia we don't have to tiptoe around Christmas. We can say merry Christmas to people and play religious-themed carols and most will not batter an eyelid, regardless of their religious or lack thereof beliefs. Go to the USA and everyone says 'happy holidays' in fear of insulting someone. I think tradition plays a huge part in Australian lives.

 

[madmug]

My whole family is basically atheist (more like apatheist... was never brought up in religion so we never had a reason to believe in God) but every Good Friday we will make an effort to eat fish and no red meat. Christmas we play carols on the stereo and some are Jesus related. I'm going off topic here but I love how in Australia we don't have to tiptoe around Christmas. We can say merry Christmas to people and play religious-themed carols and most will not batter an eyelid, regardless of their religious or lack thereof beliefs. Go to the USA and everyone says 'happy holidays' in fear of insulting someone. I think tradition plays a huge part in Australian lives.

Religion has a large 'cultural' component with all sorts of rituals & ritual behaviors which become 'traditions' or just habits.
I too was baptised, it was a normal practise in society. As a Protestant CofE. We werent religious in the sense of being dragged to church but we too had fish on good friday. I still do, as a respect to my mum. We were brought up to respect others, especially the elderly.

I respect peoples behaviors if they dont 'damage' other people. If people want to 'believe', thats fine, but dont attack others or try to inflict ones beliefs on others.. Thats a big problem with a lot of believers. They think they have some right to dominate others.

We are happy to celebrate Xmas, Chinese new year, orthodox xmas & whatever. As you say, that is & should remain a strength of this country, tolerance.

Tolerance & respect are both being sorely tested at the moment.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I by and large know the US and UK positions on creationism, but can't say the same of Australia. What do people think?

http://meerkatmusings.co.uk/creationism/

Regardless of location, one would have to be rather dense to believe in what a myth tells us about creation.

Regards
DL

 

[Gus Poyet]

PS. I'm a catholic too.
There are literally millions of us who do not believe at all in invisible sky Gods.

Well you're not a Catholic then. You just like their traditions and join in. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[Gus Poyet]

I don't get why people in 2014 care where we came from. My kids are Catholic and believe in a higher presence but whether we came from sea monkeys or bearded jews it's not really relevant.

 

[GW982014]

I don't get why people in 2014 care where we came from. My kids are Catholic and believe in a higher presence but whether we came from sea monkeys or bearded jews it's not really relevant.

So, you are homophobic, anti-education, anti-union, anti-ALP, anti-ABC, anti-feminism, anti-health, anti-welfare in general. You justify attacking Gough in a tribute thread on the day he dies, because hypothetically "other people would do it to Abbott".

And now you are saying that science, biology, history and an understanding of what created life on Earth is irrelevant... but...
...In 2014....
...We shouldn't care about any of that... we should just accept that Catholicism is a choice... and it shouldn't be questioned.
And you can't understand how anyone can care about where we came from...


Not that in 2014, it's difficult to understand why anyone would still bring their children up to follow whatever religion...
It's everything else that's bad.

You are deplorable.
I can't believe that there are still people like you.

 

[Gus Poyet]

And now you are saying that science, biology, history and an understanding of what created life on Earth is irrelevant... but...
...In 2014....
...We shouldn't care about any of that... we should just accept that Catholicism is a choice... and it shouldn't be questioned.
And you can't understand how anyone can care about where we came from...

* me you read some s**t into a simple statement.

Says a lot about your mind.

All I said was why argue over where we came from. When you're walking down the street it don't matter a * if you came from a monkey or the flying spaghetti monster itself.

Simple really.

I can't believe there are people like you. Drama Queens to the extreme.