Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
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why you quoted me remains a mystery, I thought it was obvious my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek....
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What do you do with Shane Watson?
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PaddyO
Cancelled
Yeh, and my point stands. What's the point of playing SMarsh over Watson when Watson's bowling is valuable, and the next best batsman isn't necessarily gonna be better than him?
Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
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Which one would you punt first? Both seemingly have better replacements in the squad in Rogers and M.Marsh respectively...
That's what I would do NSFB, it's a given Rogers will come in for SMarsh, but no way will the selectors drop Watson for MMarsh.
PaddyO
Cancelled
Rogers should definitely replace SMarsh when his concussion is right. And Khawaja or Burns should replace Rogers post Ashes.
MMarsh will replace Watson long term, but Watson's bowling will be good for England. Watson should be told to retire from tests after the Ashes and only play short form for Australia.
Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
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Let's be realistic, he's likely to average somewhere in the 20's as a batsmen in England at which point we'd be better off just picking a fifth bowler. We can't justify his position in the team any longer. It's not like he has age and potential on his side either, M.Marsh does.
Still think marsh vs watto for the ashes is a simple matter of which one is more likely to bat at six and roll his arm over(neither are wicket taking test bowlers they are rest givers) without getting injured and sadly right now that is watto, marsh is clearly going to be a better test bat than watto in the long run but right now i wouldn't back him to get through one test in that allrounder role let alone five so close together.
We can't bat Nevill at number 6 in tests because we'd be down a batsman.
You and I both agree that Faulkner isn't as good a batsman as Mitch Marsh or Shane Watson.
So selecting Faulkner instead weakens the batting and marginally improves the bowling (sure he's a much better bowler than either Marsh or Watson but he's still the fifth bowler in a perfectly functional attack).
Nevill batting at six not only has to be good enough to bat at six but has to make up for the fact that our batting is weaker because of Faulkner.
To me Nevill projects to be about as good a test batsman as Brad Haddin (at his peak) which is pretty good for a wicketkeeper. But I would never bat Haddin at six.
As an unrelated aside you mention Shaun Marsh and at test level I agree with what you are saying. But here is his shield career. His inconsistency is from season to season. He's either a good batsman or he's complete rubbish who doesn't warrant a shield spot.
His test form generally reflects his shield form around the time he was selected - if he's s**t that season at test level he is also rubbish for WA (see 2011/12).
And all of his best seasons come when he's batting at 4 or 5.
Code:
Shaun Marsh
Season Sta Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SRATE 100 50 0
2005/06 WA 10 20 2 676 94 37.55 1475 45.83 0 5 3
2006/07 WA 6 11 0 226 50 20.65 520 43.46 0 1 0
2007/08 WA 8 15 4 663 166* 60.27 1485 44.64 1 5 0
2008/09 WA 4 8 1 167 74* 23.85 453 36.86 0 1 0
2009/10 WA 5 10 2 477 108* 59.62 973 49.02 1 4 0
2010/11 WA 4 7 0 414 137 59.14 952 43.48 1 3 0
2011/12 WA 4 7 0 195 79 27.85 364 53.57 0 1 1
2012/13 WA 4 8 0 152 84 19.00 412 36.89 0 1 0
2013/14 WA 7 12 1 401 127* 36.45 874 45.88 2 0 1
2014/15 WA 11 16 5 706 164* 64.18 1365 51.72 3 2 1Edit: I have the stats for Peter Nevill's whole career.
Code:
Peter Nevill
Season Sta Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SRATE 100 50 0
2008/09 NSW 1 2 0 18 18 9.00 62 29.03 0 0 1
2009/10 NSW 3 2 0 155 105 77.50 254 61.02 1 1 0
2010/11 NSW 8 13 4 341 108* 37.88 724 47.09 1 1 1
2011/12 NSW 9 16 5 570 112* 51.81 1131 50.39 1 3 1
2012/13 NSW 10 18 2 421 65* 26.31 937 44.93 0 3 3
2013/14 NSW 9 15 3 472 100* 39.33 1067 44.23 1 2 1
2014/15 NSW 10 14 4 764 235* 76.40 1534 49.80 2 3 1Very good batting by a wicketkeeper and his 235* I think was the highest first class score by an Australian wicketkeeper in a match they kept in.
PaddyO
Cancelled
So why can't Nevill bat at 6?
Because we need the extra batting.
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send him to bangladesh
PaddyO
Cancelled
The question is, would a combination of:
6. Nevill
7. Faulkner
give us more than
6. Watson
7. Haddin
?
My guess is yes.
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
PaddyO
Cancelled
Look, you're probably right. And my opinion on MMarsh is pretty high, especially as a batsman. Think he'll be an outstanding bowler. But he still doesn't bowl that containing style that Watson and Faulkner are both really good at.
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Here is why watson should be in the team:
- He's scored more test runs in the past year than all the batsman from Afghanistan, Ireland and the UAE, and Chris Martin combined
- He has nearly as many test centuries as Marcus North
- He hasn't been injured in weeks
- He was in pretty good form five or six years ago
- This sub seems to like benchods, and he kind of looks like Jaime Lannister (and bats like he sword fights from the third book), and he's played for Tasmania
- He tries hard, and has even started doing his homework
- A lot people point out that he doesn't take a lot of ODI wickets. This is unfair, as he also doesn't take a lot of test wickets. Also, his role in ODI's is to be economical rather than take wickets, and in the last two years the only Australian bowlers to have a better ODI economy rate than Watson are Johnson, Starc, Pattinson, Cummins, Doherty, Faulkner, Marsh, Hazlewood, Smith, Maxwell and probably a few others.
- He seems as likeable and articulate as David Warner, and he doesn't assault lesbians
- He has all the foundations of a world class allrounder, and soon he's going to hit his peak. I know people have been saying that for ten years, but this year it's totally true.
- He has incriminating photos of the selectors, I assume
- He has previously captained the side, and seems the obvious choice for captain in all formats once they finally drop Steve Smith
- He scores runs when the team's under pressure. Several of them.
- He's batting is constantly improving. Early in his career he would get out bowled quite often. After a few years, he worked out you can block the stumps with your legs, unfortunately, he started getting a lot of LBWs. Then he worked out if you use the wooden thing in your hands, you can't get LBW. Unfortunately, sometimes the ball flies off that and goes into a fielder's hands. But wait until he works out you can hit the ball into the ground. He will be unstoppable.
- If he got dropped now he'll probably retire and become Channel Nine's new top commentator
TheGreatBarryB
Hall of Famer
Eyes are gone...left a ball pitched on off and saw the ball late on dropped catch. Amazing his Test career has lasted this long.
Cleavy
Hall of Famer
whenever you try to write him off, he pulls a decent innings out of his clacker and saves his spot...
But will we get more from 6. Marsh and 7. Nevill?
Especially when we consider that we'd already have a pretty good pace attack.
That leave is a thing of beauty. Sky seemed to be showing it in the break every time I looked up from work yesterday. Worth keeping him in the team for the laughs.
The pressure's on. He must be miffed with Clarke's declaration in the last test, denying him his quota of junk time runs.
It was probably why Clarke made the declaration.
It's a near certainty.
Pugsley
TheBrownDog
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