What has happened to GWS's concessions?

[sherb]

I live in Western Sydney and I would love to get behind GWS.

But the clowns running the joint make that really, really difficult.

And I am not alone in that view.

Their supporters don't make it easy either.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

One in five kids recruited play 75 games or more. Far less are stars. Expansion clubs need far more older experienced players to really get up and going.

 

[grouse mate]

OP has an obsession and needs help.

 

[Colonial]

FMD. Good to see the usual trolls.

 

[PAFC_1870]

SOS admitted no one wanted to trade at the time so he got smart with some clever draft pick acquisitions with full knowledge he'd be trading later on.

It's the GC side who lost all their experience that is the bigger concern imo. They played a game recently with less average games then their debut ffs.

 

[Tiger2709]

SOS is just a s**t recruiter

Perfect fit for the Blues then?

 

[Choomah]

Perfect fit for the Blues then?

100% perfect, hes just as bad as the bloke that picked boekturd

 

[Matchu]

2010 Underagers
Tomas Bugg - Looks like he's about to be traded.
Jeremy Cameron - Signed a long extension and was an AA in his second year.
Sam Darley - Traded to the Bulldogs for pick #78 (not used).
Josh Growden - Delisted.
Jarrod Harding - Delisted.
Jack Hombsch - Traded to Port Adelaide for pick #28 (used to get Gilham, delisted two years later).
Tim Golds - Still at the club. Played 6 games.
Dylan Shiel - Has remained at the club. Played 64 games.
Adam Treloar - Looks like he's about to be traded.
Simon Tunbridge - Delisted.
Gerald Ugle - Delisted.
Nathan Wilson - Still at the club. Played 32 games.

Zone selections
Kurt Aylett - Traded to Essendon with Shaun Edwards to receive pick #48 (not used).
Josh Bruce - Traded to St Kilda for pick #48 (not used)
Shaun Edwards - Traded to Essendon with Kurt Aylett to receive pick #48 (not used).
Curtly Hampton - Looks like he's about to be traded.
Anthony Miles - Delisted.
Sam Schulz - Still at the club. Played 1 game.
Tim Segrave - Delisted.
Jacob Townsend - Still at the club. Played 28 games.
Mark Whiley - Traded to Carlton with Jaksch & pick #19 for pick #7 (Paul Ahern)

2011 Draft picks
#1 Jonathan Patton - Still at the club. Played 32 games.
#2 Stephen Coniglio - Still at the club. Played 62 games.
#3 Dom Tyson - Traded to Melbourne for pick #2 (Josh Kelly)
#5 Matt Buntine - Still at the club. Played 27 games.
#7 Nick Haynes - Still at the club. Played 44 games.
#9 Adam Tomlinson - Looks like he's about to be traded.
#11 Toby Greene - Still at the club. Played 75 games.
#13 Taylor Adams - Traded to Collingwood for Heath Shaw.
#15 - Traded with Steven Morris to Richmond for pick #14 (Devon Smith).

2011 Mini-draft picks (had to be traded)
#1 - Traded to Gold Coast for pick #4 (Will Hoskin-Elliott)
#2 - Traded to Adelaide for pick #10 (Liam Sumner)

2012 Mini-draft picks (had to be traded)
#1 - Traded to Gold Coast for pick #2 (Jonathan O'Rourke).
#2 - Traded to Melbourne for pick #3 (Lachlan Plowman).

Seems to be a lot of misses and not many hits. You can give a club as many concessions as you like but, unless they can hold on to those players, there is a good chance that those concessions will turn into a downgrade through a trade or into nothing at all. This is probably why the AFL won't remove the Riverina region from GWS's academy zone any time soon. I mean I've listed 34 selections above and you can probably count about 5 of them as success stories for the club.

So what can they do? Draft more NSW players out of their academy and hope they don't leave?

It's worth looking at the Gold Coast to compare the two given their concessions were fairly similar.

2009 Underagers
Piers Flanagan - Delisted.
Taylor Hine - Delisted.
Jack Hutchins - Delisted.
Hayden Jolly - Delisted.
Alex Keath - Chose cricket.
Brandon Matera - Still at the club. Played 74 games.
Trent McKenzie - Still at the club. Played 92 games.
Tom Nicholls - Still at the club. Played 30 games.
Luke Russell - Still at the club. Played 70 games.
Matt Shaw - Still at the club. Played 87 games.
Josh Toy - Delisted.
Maverick Weller - Delisted.

Zone selections
Jospeh Daye - Delisted.
Charlie Dixon - Looks like he's about to be traded.
Tom Hickey - Traded to St Kilda for pick #13 (Jesse Lonergan)
Rex Liddy - Retired.
Marc Lock - Delisted.
Alik Magin - Delisted.
Steven May - Still at the club. Played 71 games.
Liam Patrick - Delisted.
Zac Smith - Looks like he's about to be traded.
Rory Thompson - Still at the club. Played 65 games.
Joel Wilkinson - Delisted.

2010 Draft picks
#1 David Swallow - Still at the club. Played 79 games.
#2 Harley Bennell - Looks like he's about to be traded.
#3 Sam Day - Still at the club. Played 78 games.
#5 - Traded to Brisbane for Jared Brennan & pick #10 (Daniel Gorringe).
#7 Josh Caddy - Traded to Geelong for pick #15 (Jarrod Garlett)
#9 Dion Prestia - Still at the club. Played 81 games.
#11 Tom Lynch - Still at the club. Played 80 games.
#13 Seb Tape - Still at the club. Played 37 games.
#15 - Traded with pick 4 to GWS for Mini-draft pick 1 (Jaeger O'Meara).

Fair to say Gold Coast have handled their concessions better than GWS, despite having less to work with.

 

[RodneyMaynard]

Jeremy Cameron
Dylan Shiel
Nathan Wilson
Stephen Coniglio
Nick Haynes
Toby Greene
Will Hoskin-Elliott
Jonathan O'Rourke
Lachlan Plowman

Yea they did terribly

 

[Sirlemsip]

I really hope GWS and the GC succeed. I would prefer to Melbourne based clubs merge with the expansion sides to balance out the competition. 8 interstate club a 8 Vic clubs would be a good step in the right direction.

Agree with this except it should be 9 Interstate and 7 Vic
7x VIC
2x WA
2x SA
2x NSW
2x QLD
1x TAS

Good luck finding multiple Vic clubs that would be happy with that though. In reality you could get away with having three AFL clubs in both WA and SA as well - the support would be there.

 

[dumb]

Don't quite understand... when people are comparing the upstarts gws have frequently been lauded as setting up club better with a good blend of youth and experience.

 

[Matchu]

Jeremy Cameron
Dylan Shiel
Nathan Wilson
Stephen Coniglio
Nick Haynes
Toby Greene
Will Hoskin-Elliott
Jonathan O'Rourke
Lachlan Plowman

Yea they did terribly

Let's break this down.

2010 Underagers - 3/12 (25%)
Jeremy Cameron - 73/88 games
Dylan Shiel - 64/88 games
Nathan Wilson - 32/88 games

2011 Draftees 3/9 (33%)
Stephen Coniglio - 62/88 games
Nick Haynes - 44/88 games
Toby Greene - 75/88 games

2011/12 Mini draft returns 3/4 (75%)
Will Hoskin-Elliott - 50/88 games
Jonathan O'Rourke - Played 9 games for the club and was traded. Not sure why you brought him up.
Lachie Plowman - 20/66 games

So of the 25 picks, just 9 have been mentioned by you. That's 36%. What's your opinion on the other 64%?

 

[Colonial]

Let's break this down.

2010 Underagers - 3/12 (25%)
Jeremy Cameron - 73/88 games
Dylan Shiel - 64/88 games
Nathan Wilson - 32/88 games

2011 Draftees 3/9 (33%)
Stephen Coniglio - 62/88 games
Nick Haynes - 44/88 games
Toby Greene - 75/88 games

2011/12 Mini draft returns 3/4 (75%)
Will Hoskin-Elliott - 50/88 games
Jonathan O'Rourke - Played 9 games for the club and was traded. Not sure why you brought him up.
Lachie Plowman - 20/66 games

So of the 25 picks, just 9 have been mentioned by you. That's 36%. What's your opinion on the other 64%?

Great trading for picks and experience plus our list and cap is ever shrinking.

Seriously you cant be that silly.

 

[Cudi_420]

They will all play for Carlton soon.

Well the ones they don't want.

Melbourne, too Bugg, Frost, Tyson.

 

[Colonial]

To be fair we wanted to keep bugg and frost. Well the fans did.

 

[Matchu]

Great trading for picks and experience plus our list and cap is ever shrinking.

Seriously you cant be that silly.

Great trading? The only trade that was particularly outstanding from their initial concessions was the Taylor Adams-Heath Shaw trade. I suppose Josh Kelly is a pretty good pick up too. Still, that's 2 solid acquisitions from the 14. YOU can't silly enough to think that's impressive?

 

[Cudi_420]

With the benefit of hindsight - I think the AFL should have ensured that GC and GWS would have had a better mix of mature players. The overall aim in my opinion should have been 1 good player lost over the 2 year period for each of the 16 remaining clubs - so 8 mature players of good quality (ie somewhere around top 5 to top 10 of each list). Then they should have also been mandated to pick up x number of players in x age groups as well - not just 18 year old draftees. I've got some rough ideas as to some of the measures the AFL could have used - but ultimately it comes down to the fact that the AFL gave the expansion clubs too much choice and didn't sufficiently engineer the expansions so that they would be a real AFL team from day one (not all the expansion clubs fault either as they weren't given enough ammunition to get other clubs to come to the ball either).

Achieving well balanced lists would have required was a well thought out package of incentives for both players and clubs. Some examples:
Incentives for players to make them want to move to GC/GWS eg Initial sign on bonuses - perhaps with age criteria eg 2 players 26-29, 3 players 23 - 25, 3 players any age.
Incentives for clubs to make them want to trade a player to GC/GWS - eg Draft picks (for instance the expansion clubs could have been given the entire first round of draft picks but with a mandate that every second pick had to be traded. There should also have been compensation picks given to clubs the year after GWS came in - given that each of the teams are effectively only getting 1 first rounder over 2 years (although that's not overly different to what actually happened).

The advantages would have been: GC and GWS would have been instantly competitive not stuck to the bottom of the ladder like glue and snatching up even more bottom draft picks in the meantime whilst they waited for their talented players to mature. GC and GWS would have benefited because better quality mature aged players would have helped their younger players develop and fans would have had better initial experiences rather than what actually happened in years 1-3. The pain would have been spread around equally amongst the remaining 16 teams in terms of losing 1 quality player over 2 years. Whilst you can argue it would hurt bottom clubs more - they would have also been the ones getting the better compensation picks as well.

They couldn't have really forced them to do that. I suspect that the draft picks were more like a line of credit they could have used to bring in other assets, which they mostly didn't. Now they both risk losing young talent that want to leave and getting lesser picks/players for them. Real, GWS more than GC, should have bundled a lot of those picks for more experienced talent, because they won't get the same value now for the player's they pick than they would have in highly compromised drafts


It might pay off for them, we don't know. I think GC might struggle again next year and I imagine Eade has a 3-5 year plan in place. But GWS are either going to rise or fall. Tbh I don't think there's an in between for them.

 

[The_Reaper]

It's working exactly as designed.

It was always known that over the time GWS would trade out talent due to players competing for the same spots.

 

[Damon_3388]

If the AFL "ensured" these clubs "had a better mix of established players", they probably would have just ended up with a bunch of off-cuts and plodders, and required a full rebuild five years in, a la Brisbane Bears and Fremantle. Better to get some real high potential talent in, at the expense of a couple of paper wins in the early years.

The real puzzlement is why anyone expects these clubs to be contenders yet, or acts like the clubs or the ventures are failures, given their respective list profiles and ages.

 

[NathanMX]

So of the 25 picks, just 9 have been mentioned by you. That's 36%. What's your opinion on the other 64%?

Name any clubs last 25 draft picks and I am not sure any team would have a higher percentage then 36 with successes. Drafting is fickle, even with the best picks, for every Dane Swan and Sam Mitchell at 58 and 30 odd there is a Jack Watts, Josh Fraser and Aaron Fiora. Could any club claim a break even over the same period, 50% good players?

 

[Stereophonic]

What 2 Melbourne clubs would those be?

who gives a *.

 

[Boxhead_31]

And Carlton say trust SOS?

 

[estibador]

Their supporters don't make it easy either.

If the few running around on the D&T board are any indication I can see why.

 

[MightyTiger]

This guy happened.

 

[DERIBERATE]

If you're going to prioritize on bringing in young talent instead of bringing in some experience (big mistake IMO), then they needed to maximise their early picks and go for best available instead of drafting for needs. With the amount of early picks they had there's no excuse for missing so many guns in 2011-2014.

Obviously it's still early days, but by the look of it they have somehow missed the best player/s in every single draft they've had concessions in. Looking back now, if we were to pick out the best player in the last 4 drafts it would be: 2011-Wingard, 2012-Stringer/Wines, 2013-Bontempelli, 2014-hard to say this early but De Goey/Cockatoo and Petracca if I was to have a guess. Yet they've missed them ALL.

2011, they had first 5 picks yet somehow missed Wingard #6.
2012, they had the top 3 picks and missed Stringer#5, Wines#7, Macrae#6 (taking Whitfield#1, O'Rourke#2, Plowman#3).
2013, had first 2 picks and missed Bontempelli#4 and Kolodjashnij#5.
2014, had 3 top 10 picks and missed De'Goey#5, Wright#8, Cockatoo#10 instead taking Pickett#4, Marchbank#6, Ahem#7.

SOS has been talked up as a messiah but IMO he is the most overrated messiah going around. With the amount of concessions GWS have had there is absolutely no chance that he could of stuffed it up, yet he somehow almost did.

All well and good, but the reason they didn't sign experienced players in year 1 is experienced players didn't want to go there.