What is a pass mark for Essendon in 2015?

mike123

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Look.

I feel as though this Bombers squad has been on the cusp of elite for a few years now.

I'd expect them to make the 8.

Top 4 might be pushing it, with the likes of Hawthorn, Port, West Coast, Sydney and North.

A lot of talented squads.

LOL
 
The problem is that has at least as much to do with the midfield as it does with the defence.
What else can we measure it by unless we pay for more stats? Essendon outperformed Geelong defensively in all he publicly available stats (or combination within those stats)
 
Aug 17, 2006
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What else can we measure it by unless we pay for more stats? Essendon outperformed Geelong defensively in all he publicly available stats (or combination within those stats)

Wins and losses?

Like almost all of the publicly available stats associated with the AFL, they are completely subjective. Four of Geelong's mainstays in defence have made the AA squad in at least one of the past two seasons. Geelong's regular back six in 2014 was Enright, Lonergan, Taylor, Mackie, Rivers and Kelly. Five of those six finished in the top 10 in the best and fairest and all will be returning, though Kelly will probably be replaced in defence with Jed Bews, who impressed pretty much every time he was given an opportunity last year. Defence - in the short-term - is the least of Geelong's concerns.
 
Wins and losses?

Like almost all of the publicly available stats associated with the AFL, they are completely subjective. Four of Geelong's mainstays in defence have made the AA squad in at least one of the past two seasons. Geelong's regular back six in 2014 was Enright, Lonergan, Taylor, Mackie, Rivers and Kelly. Five of those six finished in the top 10 in the best and fairest and all will be returning, though Kelly will probably be replaced in defence with Jed Bews, who impressed pretty much every time he was given an opportunity last year. Defence - in the short-term - is the least of Geelong's concerns.

Staying out of the rest of the shitfight, but have to disagree with this, Bews looked deadset ordinary in virtually every game he played. Seemed to leaked goals like a sieve, could barely get a touch and when he did he didn't do much with it. Even Robin 'how am I still on an AFL list' Nahas made him look bad.
 

Halftimehero

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Wins and losses?

Like almost all of the publicly available stats associated with the AFL, they are completely subjective. Four of Geelong's mainstays in defence have made the AA squad in at least one of the past two seasons. Geelong's regular back six in 2014 was Enright, Lonergan, Taylor, Mackie, Rivers and Kelly. Five of those six finished in the top 10 in the best and fairest and all will be returning, though Kelly will probably be replaced in defence with Jed Bews, who impressed pretty much every time he was given an opportunity last year. Defence - in the short-term - is the least of Geelong's concerns.

That is a bit of worry for Geelong with the age of those defenders, Enright 33, Taylor 28, Mackie 30, Lonergan 30, Kelly 31 and Rivers 30
 
Wins and losses?

Like almost all of the publicly available stats associated with the AFL, they are completely subjective. Four of Geelong's mainstays in defence have made the AA squad in at least one of the past two seasons. Geelong's regular back six in 2014 was Enright, Lonergan, Taylor, Mackie, Rivers and Kelly. Five of those six finished in the top 10 in the best and fairest and all will be returning, though Kelly will probably be replaced in defence with Jed Bews, who impressed pretty much every time he was given an opportunity last year. Defence - in the short-term - is the least of Geelong's concerns.
That's almost entirely because Geelong's forward line far outweighs Essendon's. The starting forward line for Essendon (Daniher, Chapman, Carlisle, Ambrose, Winderlich) kicked 105 goals between them. Hawkins, Bartel and Motlop outperformed that by themselves. I'm not saying Geelong had a bad defence, just that Essendon's outperformed them this season.
Staying out of the rest of the shitfight, but have to disagree with this, Bews looked deadset ordinary in virtually every game he played. Seemed to leaked goals like a sieve, could barely get a touch and when he did he didn't do much with it. Even Robin 'how am I still on an AFL list' Nahas made him look bad.
Bews destroyed Chappy when we played Geelong, which is the only game I saw of him.
 
Aug 17, 2006
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Staying out of the rest of the shitfight, but have to disagree with this, Bews looked deadset ordinary in virtually every game he played. Seemed to leaked goals like a sieve, could barely get a touch and when he did he didn't do much with it. Even Robin 'how am I still on an AFL list' Nahas made him look bad.

Lol. How did Chapman go against him again?
 
Aug 17, 2006
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That's almost entirely because Geelong's forward line far outweighs Essendon's. The starting forward line for Essendon (Daniher, Chapman, Carlisle, Ambrose, Winderlich) kicked 105 goals between them. Hawkins, Bartel and Motlop outperformed that by themselves. I'm not saying Geelong had a bad defence, just that Essendon's outperformed them this season.

The point is, it's problematic to look at one group in isolation without factoring how the other lines affect it. For the past two years, Geelong has publicly said that it's not too fussed about clearances (and it shows), because it likes to play a counter attacking style, starting from half back. Playing that way results in a lot of easy goals - and a lot of easy goals against.

The other part of Geelong's forward line that merely looking at the goals contributed doesn't take into account is that Hawkins was the only regular there whom I would have considered to have anything better than an average season. The heir apparent, Vardy, did his ACL in the preseason. Bartel didn't kick enough goals. Murdoch was ordinary. Kersten started well then fell away dreadfully. Walker looked pretty good, but didn't get enough opportunities. Motlop was injured, took about a month to get going, was on fire in the middle of the season (playing as much in the midfield as forward) and then started to be bothered by niggles at the end of the season. And so on. It's why I think Hawkins has/had a serious case as being the most valuable player in the league: Geelong would have been lucky to make the finals last year without him. That might change with Clark, Vardy, Walker, Stanley and Kersten all as options to be his sidekick, but it remains to be seen. If Geelong persists with Motlop up the ground, there is still no proven crumber in the lineup. The forward line in 2014 was almost embarrassing and the fact that one player out of the six was incredible and the rest did practically nothing doesn't change that. It was the most lopsided forward line I've ever seen Geelong put on the park and I hope that I never see anything like it again.
 
Aug 17, 2006
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That is a bit of worry for Geelong with the age of those defenders, Enright 33, Taylor 28, Mackie 30, Lonergan 30, Kelly 31 and Rivers 30

To some extent. The Cats should have been rotating those players much more aggressively over the past two years, to give younger players some exposure and also give the incumbents some rest during the year. For 2015, I don't see it as being a huge issue, because, despite al the doom and gloom that people want to attach to the number, 30 really should be the prime of a player's career. There is no way Kelly should remain in defence and he really switched places on the field with Guthrie at the start of last year. I thought Bews was very impressive last year and should be a lock in a back pocket. Blicavs has been earmarked for a defending role apparently: he had a couple of cameos there in 2014 and looked ok (I'd say the jury is out though). I personally think Stanley must be groomed as a defender as well, as he's behind Clark, fighting Kersten, Vardy and Walker for a spot in the forward line (I think I'll throw up if the player that we ultimately got for Allen Christensen is a 24 year old that can't even crack the seniors). Delaney will undoubtedly make an appearance in the seniors, if he's fit. Kolodjashnij has looked good in the reserves and hopefully he debuts as well. James Toohey is hopefully another option down the track. I'm confident in Bews and very confident in Guthrie if he goes back to defence, but it's impossible to know about any of the others until we see more of them at AFL level.

One thing I will say is the club at least seems to think it's ok in that department, otherwise it could have quite easily kept Joel Hamling and Mitch Brown, instead of delisting them.
 
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A lot will obviously depend on the pending court/tribunal hearings, but I would think finals is the minimum pass mark for Essendon. anything less and it will be a complete fail.

They've invested in older age talent over recent years (Chapman & Cooney, lesser extent Goddard), with a view to have a legitimate tilt. They have good young players coming through and a core group of established quality.

If Hird fails to get that side into the finals, then it's a massive fail on his behalf.
 
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What else can we measure it by unless we pay for more stats? Essendon outperformed Geelong defensively in all he publicly available stats (or combination within those stats)

Given Geelong's season percentage was more akin to a 6th-7th placed team, then that's hardly surprising!....Remembering they scraped a good half dozen games in by around a goal or less....Ergo, their straight-sets exit!
 
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It's safe to say Essendon's 2015 has been a spectacular failure. The general consensus was that they would be well in the mix for the top 8, maybe even win a final.

After a promising start, the Bombers have capitulated and now it looks like they are just waiting for the season to be over. Currently sitting 15th and it's hard to see them winning another game for the rest of the year.

We've seen them start strongly only to fall away but the drop off has been a lot worse this year. I'd say worse than 2010 under Knights.

Off field they've got their issues as we all know, which is clearly having an impact on their performance.

Right now it's hard to see any blue sky ahead.
 

Ashton Agar

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It's safe to say Essendon's 2015 has been a spectacular failure. The general consensus was that they would be well in the mix for the top 8, maybe even win a final.

After a promising start, the Bombers have capitulated and now it looks like they are just waiting for the season to be over. Currently sitting 15th and it's hard to see them winning another game for the rest of the year.

We've seen them start strongly only to fall away but the drop off has been a lot worse this year. I'd say worse than 2010 under Knights.

Off field they've got their issues as we all know, which is clearly having an impact on their performance.

Right now it's hard to see any blue sky ahead.
At least we beat Hawthorn.
 
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