Opinion What is the main issue?

[Neen]

Jack played stay at home FF on Friday (didn't work), Ellis run with role against Carlton (votes), Martin had plenty of the ball thru the centre on Friday night...I find this line of thinking confusing, like you guys weren't there or didn't watch.

I think we have had a confidence loss that has put the runners on the back foot, reacting rather than taking the game on. Take that run out and the forwards have no chance. (Vickery included!) Throw in Lids, Rance, Maric and now the over reliance on Cotch and it's easy to see how we are under the pump.
It also means it can be turned around, and unlike some we don't have to immediately sack half the list. Anyone can look like a spud when the whole system is breaking down, but the domino will work the other way when we get up and going. Hopefully that happens soon.

Jack played at FF all game - for the first time this season. He missed two easy shots. He is lighter and is no longer able to use his strength "one on one". Lets not forget, he was the best contested mark in 2012, and was limited by injuries in 2013. So before the coaches decided to change his role for 2014, he had a coleman in 2012 and was in the top 5 in "goal assists" in the comp in 2013. How many goals or "goal assists" is he on now ?

Martin spent more time in across half back than he did across half forward - where he is most damaging. He spent a great deal of time in the last quarter down back - so much so - that I got up and left the game at the 10 minute mark. It totally pissed me off that he was wasting in the backline while Cotchin was get bashed up by macaffer.

Ellis should have taken Grigg's spot by now. Now point in being an elite runner if you are chasing an opponent all day instead of using your strengths and playing the position we drafted him for.

We have injuries like any other club. Rance goes down, Grimes and Astbury step up, Maric is replaced by Hampson. Deledio - as we are finding out - is irreplaceable.

Gameplan has been tweaked over summer and failed. At some point, the coach needs to take responsibility on two fronts.

1) Revert back to a gameplan that beat both Grand Finalists (easily) in 2013.
2) Stop picking favorites, and pick in form players.

 

[sante]

Grigg is the sole reason.

 

[Hans McGregor]

I have eyes. We we chasing last year, we aren't this year. Don't care if we catch them or not, most of our guys are not running two ways anymore.

Also last year we were attacking hard off the hb line. Remember Houli and Grigg were both tagged in games because it was working so well. Now, we sit and wait off hb. No run, no attack, no risk.

This is nothing about other teams over taking us, it's failing to even attempt to do the things we were doing last year

Do you think their might be an attitude problem amongst the playing group with the tweaking of the game plan or does that sound like too much of a crazy conspiracy theory?

 

[tora tora tora]

the ease with which Pies midfield carved up ours indicates to me we are 3 gun midfielders short of a premiership team.
Pies had We had
Pendle Cotchin
Beams Lids
Swan Martin

Ball Jackson
McCaffer Thomas

etc

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Do you think their might be an attitude problem amongst the playing group with the tweaking of the game plan or does that sound like too much of a crazy conspiracy theory?

Don't think so, the game plan is effectively the same, just a couple of roles have changed. If you look at the HB's and mids who are not running like they used to, most are in similar roles to previous years

Also if there was discontent the media would be all over it (just look at the Blues)

 

[Yelle]

I think everything has been covered. I hate how we kick deep to the pockets to 3 on 1s. I know bombing long into the goal square isn't always the best option but at least it creates a better opportunity.

 

[Mr Magic]

Rance, Deledio and Maric

Agree, and opposition easy beats getting better eg. Bulldogs, Collingwood, GC, more of our players are passing their peak while a few of our youngsters are still developing!

For example who has the most improvement this year?

! Griffiths
2. Astbury

3. ?????

 

[21goals4]

Been thinking this over since Friday night, and having stop myself posting angry rants, and firing off emails to the club.
My main thought is they are playing like it is just going to happen eventually and its just a matter of time before it all clicks.Now we all know the longer this goes on the deeper the hole becomes.
As the saying goes, There are those that make it happen, there are those that watch it happen, and there are those that say "what happened?"
We have to many in the middle category and maybe a few in the "what happened ?" category!
We regularly see this in our kickouts, all long and to the contest, as opposed to the opposition who seem to be able to run the ball out of defence with ease against us.

 

[avengers]

I think dimma has said this and I 100% agree we aren't doing the simple things well! its like players sometimes just stop concentrating sometimes a * up simple things and it costs us greatly on the scoreboard
we miss maric! I believe it is showing how much we miss him with most of the media questioning the tigers lack of leadership but also we don't have anyone around that makes the guys stand taller! I think maric does that he lifts his team mates that extra 5%, I also think he will team up really well with hammer!
said it in another thread saying kamdyn macintosh needs to step up and be our grant birchall/andrew mackie type! We need a 3rd tall attacking defender quarter back type! all we have is either tall defenders with no run or small defenders! if houli gets shut down we loose all drive and skill out of our back line, morris has a crack but doesn't have the skills to be running and delivering out of the back half plus i would rather see him have 5 touches a game and completely shut down his opponent then 15 or so then get caught out and being burnt off by the speedy small forwards! grimes isn't attacking enough, i think he played on goldsack, should of been able to run off him and set up play! didn't!
Need griffo to step up and be a strong CHF he is improving but we need him to rapidly develop, this is why i believe dimma has jack playing up the ground, cause he wants a target, we never seem to have a tall target presenting hard up the wings! someone at footy club should strap griffo, toddy elton and whoever else wants to play CHF and show them film after film of how nick riewoldt works up the ground and presents. Having a player like this means that our players can back themselves to take a risk and run out of defense and have confidence to look up and see someone running hard giving them an option leading 50m up the ground and then therefore we can stop chipping it around the defensive 50 and turning it over so much in crucial areas! I believe when we have a player doing this then dimma will keep jack deep forward and our forward line set up will work a lot better
Need some more class in the middle, went to the game friday night, pies mids compared to our were so much more smoother in the slippery conditions! was amazed at how good pendles was not once did he ever look rushed, take out cotchin who have we got that adds class and polish.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Looking at the footy live app at the stats vs the Pies and the man issue is pretty clear.
If you look at the stats right at the bottom you'll see some horrible numbers.

 

[Dags21]

I like a lot of what's being said but no one has mentioned how much th game has changed this year... Kicking skills and hard running without th ball are extremely important, and th ability to throw th ball from packs to our advantage!! I haven't watched all of our games, but I hope th last few weeks r just a slow start to th season and don't cost th club at th pointy end..

 

[Hans McGregor]

I like a lot of what's being said but no one has mentioned how much th game has changed this year... Kicking skills and hard running without th ball are extremely important, and th ability to throw th ball from packs to our advantage!! I haven't watched all of our games, but I hope th last few weeks r just a slow start to th season and don't cost th club at th pointy end..

Spot on. This comes back to our work ethic. I don't think we work hard enough.

 

[theflea]

I have eyes. We we chasing last year, we aren't this year. Don't care if we catch them or not, most of our guys are not running two ways anymore.

Also last year we were attacking hard off the hb line. Remember Houli and Grigg were both tagged in games because it was working so well. Now, we sit and wait off hb. No run, no attack, no risk.

This is nothing about other teams over taking us, it's failing to even attempt to do the things we were doing last year

I agree the intent isn't there(is it by design of the coaches tho) but I still maintain we still need to get fitter.

 

[theflea]

Don't think so, the game plan is effectively the same, just a couple of roles have changed. If you look at the HB's and mids who are not running like they used to, most are in similar roles to previous years

Also if there was discontent the media would be all over it (just look at the Blues)

I think it has a little in that we are definitely going down the flanks more.

 

[tigs2010]

I responded to that post separately, but your two views are incompatible. How can you be exhausted and leaving everything out there with every chase, if you also are holding back some juice to run out the game?

Too many issues reeked of doubt for me. We are not running into space knowing our men will find us. We are not backing our men to win the contest, so we hold possession. Everyone seems to be playing for themselves

I'm talking about the issues from different games. Not all in one game. We go out hard like GC and Carlton game and then just can't keep it up. The next 2 games they bludge and half arse chase and come flying home with a flurry because they still have energy saved up. Problem is the game is done.

At the same time I agree part of it is mental. We are a soft side mentally. Always have been and starting to feel like always will be. We have no gut runners. Was watching the Saints today and watched Armitage absolutely sprint his arse off to the forward pocket and didn't quite get there before it went out of bounds. He was absolutely spent. I've never seen a Richmond player do that except maybe Dusty in that McLean shank goal game.

Agree on them playing for themselves. I don't want to seem like I'm always picking on him but Grigg playing on from the Cotchin free kick really sums up your point there perfectly.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I agree the intent isn't there(is it by design of the coaches tho) but I still maintain we still need to get fitter.

We can always be fitter, but that is another discussion

For me the main question is why aren't we doing the same things we prided ourselves on last year, when so little else at the club has changed.

I'd be shocked if it's by design. Our game plan has always been to hold up the ball at Hb, look for an open man, and strike hard when you do. Right now we aren't holding the ball up like we did. We used to mark, pause, and look for our runners. Now we handball receive, panic, wait, handball to nearest guy. This is the s**t we did under Wally, when we were not creating space, and we had no confidence in our skills or those of our teammates

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I think it has a little in that we are definitely going down the flanks more.

That's not by design IMO though. We are going down the flanks IMO because we are back to Wally's gameplay, and with no one prepared to present in the middle, it means crab crawling along the safety of the boundary line

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'm talking about the issues from different games. Not all in one game. We go out hard like GC and Carlton game and then just can't keep it up. The next 2 games they bludge and half arse chase and come flying home with a flurry because they still have energy saved up. Problem is the game is done.

At the same time I agree part of it is mental. We are a soft side mentally. Always have been and starting to feel like always will be. We have no gut runners. Was watching the Saints today and watched Armitage absolutely sprint his arse off to the forward pocket and didn't quite get there before it went out of bounds. He was absolutely spent. I've never seen a Richmond player do that except maybe Dusty in that McLean shank goal game.

Agree on them playing for themselves. I don't want to seem like I'm always picking on him but Grigg playing on from the Cotchin free kick really sums up your point there perfectly.

I'm also not talking about one game. We never went hard against GC until the end, same with the dogs and the pies. As for the blues, that was the prototype carlton chokefest we are so familiar with (this is the anomaly game, but we all know why it goes the way it does)

Agree on the last, and this is actually what I consider running to exhaustion, our guys just don't do it, and most don't even run both ways.

We refuse to take the game on and take the same risks we did in the past. I'd give my left nut to know what has changed in their thinking to stop this - its like watching the team under Wally again

 

[Madtiger2006]

We are also desperate for a quick crumbing forward. Banfield is very much required right now. We desperately need it get Thomas out of the side and I pray petterd doesn't come straight in but of course he will. We'll go nowhere with them at the club.

 

[nut]

1. Slow ball movement means a permanently congested f50.
2. Lack of pace. Not enough x factor (God I hate that word)
3. Lack of fitness. Getting overrun late and looking out on their feet by 3qt.
4. Poor footskills.
5. Lack of defensive run. Not enough pressure on opposition midfielders means silver service for opp forwards or easy goals to those mids.

6. No movement forward of the ball eventually forcing the ball carrier to kick to a congested ... co tested situation.
7. Over use of the ball around stoppages putting everyone under pressure....

 

[Madtiger2006]

If I became coach I'd tell petterd, thomas, Newman, Stephenson this is their final season and they'll be playing in the reserves for the rest of the year

 

[Ned_Flanders]

If I became coach I'd tell petterd, thomas, Newman, Stephenson this is their final season and they'll be playing in the reserves for the rest of the year

Redrafting Post?

 

[Madtiger2006]

Redrafting Post?

I reckon he would have been doing better that Chaplin so far this year

 

[Dr Tigris]

This year: Confidence and taking the game on. Plus I suspect other teams have worked our game out.

The game plan is still good. When we actually perform well, hit targets, keep the structure and run hard we smash the opposition. It's just the best we have done so far this year is 2 quarters on one game. The coaches certainly aren't telling the players to stop running, miss targets and drop the ball. But the coaches have to some how or other get the guys back on track. Just do the basics and attack the ball.


I wonder if oppositions teams have worked out hwo to stop our aameplana dn place us under pressure. In particular we are getting caught on the hop by counter attacks. Maybe a weakness we haven't addressed yet.
Overall: Need more speed (with decent kicking skills) and on field leadership. Losing White and Lids shows how weak our speed depth is. We are draftingthe guys that form the core, tough skilled strong. But in doing this we don't have outside line breaking speed and the guys that can stop running teams.

More importantly we don't have the on field leadership and toughness. That is neccessary to go further.

 

[Boggle]

We might have found a small forward in Lloyd and more importantly, we might have found a CHF in BG. Get Lids, Ivan and Rance back in the side, give us a few weeks to find some form and then see where we are.

It will be interesting to see how Lloyd goes over the next few weeks --the more impact he has, the more opposition clubs will do to curb him, and that's when we'll get a better gauge of his ability at AFL level.

Other than that, two comments:

I like BG at CHF --and with his kicking the CHF arc extends a LONG way out. I've largely gone off TV and it's perhaps time to start thinking of given BG a run as our second forward tall.

On the general question: "What's the main issue?" I have to say that I don't think it's talent. We play well enough when we're up and about, we're just not up and about consistently enough. That means the problem must be mental. The game against Collingwood showed, I think, that the guys aren't prepared to commit to the contest or, given the way they largely hung Cotch out to dry, to one another. We've got a few guys who are good outside players, but as soon as they lack space and time don't seem to have enough mongrel to win a dogfight over the footy.