What is the real state of the economy?

[Power Raid]

Let's start with the easy one. The co-payment does nothing to ease expenditure, it is going to a fund for research.
I would have no problem (with the protections mentioned) of a co-payment if it was going to ease pressure on Medicare, nor would I object to in an increase in the Levy.
Pain is spread around.
When you can't cut without more pain to those that can't endure any more, then the next step would be to look at your revenue streams

co-payment

if a doctors visit is free you probably won't question going to the doctor, then coming back for a test, then coming back for the results, then coming back for a repeat prescription....etc

but if $7 was coming out of your pocket, I bet we will see more accountability, less unnecessary visits and less medicare fraud.

the pensioners and those on the dole can have an extra $7 a month in their payments. I would rather see it in their pocket than the doctors.

 

[Maggie5]

co-payment

if a doctors visit is free you probably won't question going to the doctor, then coming back for a test, then coming back for the results, then coming back for a repeat prescription....etc

but if $7 was coming out of your pocket, I bet we will see more accountability, less unnecessary visits and less medicare fraud.

the pensioners and those on the dole can have an extra $7 a month in their payments. I would rather see it in their pocket than the doctors.

Sorry, no evidence to support your claim, more spin from this government to cover up they do not have any new ideas.
Can't believe that they thought that this policy was a winner.

 

[Xsess]

They can provide an environment for jobs.
Labor didn't do to badly in this area despite a very high US dollar.
Revenue streams are there but they are cowards in not pursuing them. Please don't ask for me to detail them as they have been mentioned here before.
Quite like the Greens suggestion - millionaires tax, bank levy tax and bring back the mining tax for when that sector improves.

Forget the Greens Maggie, they are economic vandals who'll ruin us. Taxing industry provides a hostile environment for jobs and retraction in the economy that ultimately results in fewer revenue streams.

 

[Power Raid]

Sorry, no evidence to support your claim, more spin from this government to cover up they do not have any new ideas.
Can't believe that they thought that this policy was a winner.

I thought we were looking for leadership and bold policy not a vote winner

 

[Power Raid]

Sorry, no evidence to support your claim, more spin from this government to cover up they do not have any new ideas.
Can't believe that they thought that this policy was a winner.

http://www.australasianscience.com....federal-budget-2014-health-experts-react.html

http://theconversation.com/federal-budget-2014-health-experts-react-26577

 

[Mofra]

It is unbelievable we allow settlements on tax obligations.

Directors should be personally liable for tax obligations and survive declarations of bankruptcy. Within reason ie tax where revenues were accrued but payments never received should be excluded etc

It's unbelievable that settlements are the norm rather than the exception!

Phoenix activity is a massive issue in a number of sectors, there is certainly scope to make changes to the Tax Act to reduce this environment of almost 'moral hazard' in many sectors.

 

[Power Raid]

It's unbelievable that settlements are the norm rather than the exception!

Phoenix activity is a massive issue in a number of sectors, there is certainly scope to make changes to the Tax Act to reduce this environment of almost 'moral hazard' in many sectors.

phoenix rule changed last year. I don't know the detail as it is too grubby to bother with.

nevertheless the administration and insolvency sector needs a review and clean out

 

[Maggie5]

http://www.australasianscience.com....federal-budget-2014-health-experts-react.html

http://theconversation.com/federal-budget-2014-health-experts-react-26577

You really should have a good read of the links before you post. Neither provides any evidence.

 

[Maggie5]

I thought we were looking for leadership and bold policy not a vote winner

You take things literally when it suits. Good leadership, takes the public with them. Pure arrogance of the cigar type.

 

[Power Raid]

You take things literally when it suits. Good leadership, takes the public with them. Pure arrogance of the cigar type.

true

you are probably right, they need to sell better

 

[Power Raid]

You really should have a good read of the links before you post. Neither provides any evidence.

I trust they got those numbers from the government forecasts provided by treasury or the accounting firms. at the end of the day you can measure the $7 pretty easily but not the efficiencies.

but you would surely agree that the savings would be from both of those limbs, so only the quantum is the debate.

 

[Xsess]

Absolutely paramount that Labor and the Libs put aside their differences and start governing for the good of the country. New economic figures couldn't be worse with us now in technical "income recession", our dollar has crashed and commodity prices are in freefall.... in other word prepare to pay the price for Labors wastage of hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars in the past 7 years. Every day we delay spending cuts the uglier our future is going to get, and at some point in time if things continue the IMF will step in and take our government options away from them.

 

[yibbida]

Absolutely paramount that Labor and the Libs put aside their differences and start governing for the good of the country. New economic figures couldn't be worse with us now in technical "income recession", our dollar has crashed and commodity prices are in freefall.... in other word prepare to pay the price for Labors wastage of hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars in the past 7 years. Every day we delay spending cuts the uglier our future is going to get, and at some point in time if things continue the IMF will step in and take our government options away from them.

Get off the crack mate.

 

[medusala]

Sorry, no evidence to support your claim,

There is substantial evidence to support the notion that cash payments reduce over servicing.

Below is all too indicative of free at the point of service healthcare. Abbotts policy is common sense.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...ndE-arrivals-sent-home-without-treatment.html

Half of patients who attended Accident & Emergency departments in the past year only needed advice - or did not receive any treatment at all, according to official figures.

 

[Maggie5]

There is substantial evidence to support the notion that cash payments reduce over servicing.

Below is all too indicative of free at the point of service healthcare. Abbotts policy is common sense.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...ndE-arrivals-sent-home-without-treatment.html

Half of patients who attended Accident & Emergency departments in the past year only needed advice - or did not receive any treatment at all, according to official figures.

I read your link even though it does not relate to Australia.
Nowhere did I read that over-servicing in hospitals was due to a co-payment.
It seems to me that there is a shortage of GPs.
What I have read in Australian media have been opinions not facts, therefore no evidence to support the claims.

 

[Showbags]

There is substantial evidence to support the notion that cash payments reduce over servicing.

Below is all too indicative of free at the point of service healthcare. Abbotts policy is common sense.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...ndE-arrivals-sent-home-without-treatment.html

Half of patients who attended Accident & Emergency departments in the past year only needed advice - or did not receive any treatment at all, according to official figures.

So we would rather people not go to the doctor, get sick, be off work and being less productive?

And I don't think the $7 co payment is being applied to accident and emergency services is it (or am I wrong)? Have they introduced the Bill into Parliament yet?

If it is only going to apply to GP visits then isn't this going to make going to a GP less accessible and therefore more pressure being placed on A&E services. It also burdens our doctors with more red tape (as it turns them into basically a tax collector for the government).

 

[medusala]

Nowhere did I read that over-servicing in hospitals was due to a co-payment.

You have missed the point. Because the service is free people demand more than they otherwise would.

Keating introduced the Medicard in a bid to cut overservicing. It will become an even bigger issue going forward with an ageing population.

So we would rather people not go to the doctor, get sick, be off work and being less productive?

Read the link. Australia is hardly any different ie a decent % of people who go to a gp don't require treatment. Bulk billing only encourages this.

 

[Showbags]

You have missed the point. Because the service is free people demand more than they otherwise would.

Keating introduced the Medicard in a bid to cut overservicing. It will become an even bigger issue going forward with an ageing population.



Read the link. Australia is hardly any different ie a decent % of people who go to a gp don't require treatment. Bulk billing only encourages this.

The article was not advocating anything about stopping people going to a GP for a checkup. It was talking about people using emergency services for minor medical issues. How is a GP co payment going to help this?

Investing in prevention is a lot less expensive to the nation than not investing. Yes you will always get the hypochondriacs who go to the emergency ward for a stubbed toe but I'd rather that than someone deciding not to go see their GP for something that is serious.

 

[Bestbird]

Absolutely paramount that Labor and the Libs put aside their differences and start governing for the good of the country. New economic figures couldn't be worse with us now in technical "income recession", our dollar has crashed and commodity prices are in freefall.... in other word prepare to pay the price for Labors wastage of hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars in the past 7 years. Every day we delay spending cuts the uglier our future is going to get, and at some point in time if things continue the IMF will step in and take our government options away from them.

Both the libs and labour were guilty of of wastage during the mining boom era. Whilst i think most people are ok with spending cuts to a degree The real issue should be more about Tax reform, paticulary in the area of avoidance which unfortunately is an industry in itself in Australia.

 

[medusala]

The article was not advocating anything about stopping people going to a GP for a checkup. It was talking about people using emergency services for minor medical issues. How is a GP co payment going to help this?

Price elasticity of demand. If you charge less people will consume and as per the article the system is overloaded with people who don't actually need help.

 

[noddy]

You have missed the point. Because the service is free people demand more than they otherwise would.

Keating introduced the Medicard in a bid to cut overservicing. It will become an even bigger issue going forward with an ageing population.



Read the link. Australia is hardly any different ie a decent % of people who go to a gp don't require treatment. Bulk billing only encourages this.

A lot of the visits to a GP in this country are only for a prescription repeat which some years ago could have been done over the phone, now one has to make an appointment to see their Doctor to ask for a repeat script after waiting over an hour in the bloody waiting room.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

Departing Treasury secretary said this:

"There is a very real risk that living standards may actually fall in some years," he said. "This is not an abstract issue. We have already seen living standards... fall in 2012-13. We saw them flat last year. And today's national accounts reinforce those concerns that we have been expressing publicly. National income has fallen again for second quarter in a row. This should be understood for what it is - a serious warning to us as a nation that unless we tackle structural reform, including fixing our fundamental budget problem, we will not be able to guarantee rising income and living standards for Australians."
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...-parkinson-20141203-11yz63.html#ixzz3KsWeYkhc

And Joe Hockey has come out and basically repeated the warning to 'own' it. No word on actually changing the tax structure, of course.

 

[Taylor]

So we would rather people not go to the doctor, get sick, be off work and being less productive?

And I don't think the $7 co payment is being applied to accident and emergency services is it (or am I wrong)? Have they introduced the Bill into Parliament yet?

If it is only going to apply to GP visits then isn't this going to make going to a GP less accessible and therefore more pressure being placed on A&E services. It also burdens our doctors with more red tape (as it turns them into basically a tax collector for the government).

I thought people couldn't be off work without going to see the doctor anyway.

It might be Labor's next policy that your workplace pay for the GP visit to get the doctors note they require for you to have a sick day.

 

[Maggie5]

You have missed the point. Because the service is free people demand more than they otherwise would.

Keating introduced the Medicard in a bid to cut overservicing. It will become an even bigger issue going forward with an ageing population.



Read the link. Australia is hardly any different ie a decent % of people who go to a gp don't require treatment. Bulk billing only encourages this.

I am at a disadvantage as I do not know the system in UK.
However it does seem that there may be a shortage of GP's as well.

I think that noddy's post also is important to take into account in regards to what is happening in Australia, my clinic employs a nurse, maybe she could carry out repeats of scripts.
Also needing to go back for results of xrays, blood tests. Surely this can be done with a phone call (I am lucky, I can do this).

In Victoria, the Andrew government is introducing super Chemists where they will also employ a nurse in-house, I think that this is a good idea.
I know a number of parents of young children and some elderly ring the service, 'Nurse on Line', which is also a good service. Does the UK have these types of services?

But all this is really beside the point of co-payment because it isn't going to reduce the cost to medicare, it is going to a research fund. Which was the main problem for the Liberals and their ability to sell the concept.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

I thought people couldn't be off work without going to see the doctor anyway.

Huh? Surely you know someone with a job??? How could you think this was the case?