Trade both Cloke and White for Tom Boyd. We'll take over his contract.
Strategy What should we do with Jesse White?
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Scodog10
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Moments change momentum and its hard to deny that in 3 of our 5 losses he's played a role in moments that have ultimately cost us. With that in mind the roast threads are understandable even if his numbers are fine in 2015.
Unfortunately though with our list management from 2012-2014 (a White aside) we brought just one KPF in and he only debuted last night so we're very light on for offensive talls. That literally makes him the second best of a bad bunch and unless we go out and offer McCarthy or Patton $1 million a season he's what we're stuck with until Moore or the next KPF we draft comes on. It is why I am growing frustrated over talk of Treloar and Dangerfield.
We just need one more weapon up forward, but until we find it we only have ourselves to blame...
Unfortunately though with our list management from 2012-2014 (a White aside) we brought just one KPF in and he only debuted last night so we're very light on for offensive talls. That literally makes him the second best of a bad bunch and unless we go out and offer McCarthy or Patton $1 million a season he's what we're stuck with until Moore or the next KPF we draft comes on. It is why I am growing frustrated over talk of Treloar and Dangerfield.
We just need one more weapon up forward, but until we find it we only have ourselves to blame...
didaksrightfoot
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We keep playing him, and the fans should get behind him and start supporting a guy who, though limited, has still made huge improvements on a year ago.
We accept that he is "average" but not "poor" for a 2nd tall forward, and would be better than most 3rd tall forwards.
We accept that for a guy who does have limitations as a player, he has still made huge improvements on last year. He is suddenly a marking target and is holding those pack marks, and when the lineup allows, is more than willing to run his defender off the ground and become a target on the wing or at HF.
He is also one that doesn't really have the "mental" side of the game downpat. He doesnt have the best football IQ, doesn't always run to the right positions and the last 2 weeks probably show he doesn't handle the pressure particularly well.
----
As for list management:
Well most list decisions over the last few years have been about fixing our engine room - because at the end of the day, it is your midfield and defence that make you a champion team. But even without an apparent focus on forwards, we still do have 3 potential replacements in the wings:
1. Reid can't get healthy enough to get on the park.
2. Gault has shown he isn't up to AFL level, and probably can't even provide 70% of what White does around a contest.
3. Moore has shown he could have one hell of a future, but still has a lot to work on - particulary strength, and getting used to the pace of AFL. IMO he's already jumped Gault in the pecking order, it may be worth giving him more opportunities at AFL level this year, but he's clearly not ready to be our 2nd KPF.
(And lets not forget that there were attempts to make Keefe a forward as well).
I would be happy for the team to chase a KPF in free agency or trade, but not sure if there's anyone available who would be an upgrade. (Dixon will be no better than White)
We accept that he is "average" but not "poor" for a 2nd tall forward, and would be better than most 3rd tall forwards.
We accept that for a guy who does have limitations as a player, he has still made huge improvements on last year. He is suddenly a marking target and is holding those pack marks, and when the lineup allows, is more than willing to run his defender off the ground and become a target on the wing or at HF.
He is also one that doesn't really have the "mental" side of the game downpat. He doesnt have the best football IQ, doesn't always run to the right positions and the last 2 weeks probably show he doesn't handle the pressure particularly well.
----
As for list management:
Well most list decisions over the last few years have been about fixing our engine room - because at the end of the day, it is your midfield and defence that make you a champion team. But even without an apparent focus on forwards, we still do have 3 potential replacements in the wings:
1. Reid can't get healthy enough to get on the park.
2. Gault has shown he isn't up to AFL level, and probably can't even provide 70% of what White does around a contest.
3. Moore has shown he could have one hell of a future, but still has a lot to work on - particulary strength, and getting used to the pace of AFL. IMO he's already jumped Gault in the pecking order, it may be worth giving him more opportunities at AFL level this year, but he's clearly not ready to be our 2nd KPF.
(And lets not forget that there were attempts to make Keefe a forward as well).
I would be happy for the team to chase a KPF in free agency or trade, but not sure if there's anyone available who would be an upgrade. (Dixon will be no better than White)
Whites going fine. Grundy and moore combined will replace him in time. Moore not ready yet and grundy injured. Reid also due back soon but which end us arguable.
Agree. He is an average footballer but he is the only option at the moment until/if Moore can develop. Despite him getting canned he is currently better than Moore. He is an athlete playing football so of course he will do dumb things at times.
Scodog10
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didaksrightfoot lets be frank if we're looking at Reid and Gault as options behind White when pressing for top 4 we're going to struggle come Prelim and GF day. I'm hessitant to be overly critical of White's form because he's doing his best, but unfortunately his best just doesn't cut it when the big moment comes.
From there Reid has suffered muliple calf, hamstring and quad injuries over the past 18 months which have limited him to just 4 of the past 35 matches. At 26 he isn't going to magically turn it around so we need to stop looking at him as an option to return and just deal with the fact that he can't be relied upon. Gault is a rookie struggling to impact at VFL level. If we were in a Prelim with him in the side it's Tristan Walker all over again.
We need to prioritize finding someone to come in and outperform White at years end. The worst case scenario is we have White on really good coin spending 2016 in the reserves, but if that means we have say Tom Lynch running around in support of Cloke it's a massive win.
From there Reid has suffered muliple calf, hamstring and quad injuries over the past 18 months which have limited him to just 4 of the past 35 matches. At 26 he isn't going to magically turn it around so we need to stop looking at him as an option to return and just deal with the fact that he can't be relied upon. Gault is a rookie struggling to impact at VFL level. If we were in a Prelim with him in the side it's Tristan Walker all over again.
We need to prioritize finding someone to come in and outperform White at years end. The worst case scenario is we have White on really good coin spending 2016 in the reserves, but if that means we have say Tom Lynch running around in support of Cloke it's a massive win.
Schraderbrau
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He gets a bad rap because he's missed a few important goals this season. He's been consistently solid all season and unless we choose to play Witts and Grundy together, he is super important to the team structure. I think some posters need to get over their problems with him, atm he is pretty much an auto selection.
Jesse White 2 goals 2 behinds
Travis Cloke 1 goal 4 behinds
Maybe we should drop Cloke also?
Travis Cloke 1 goal 4 behinds
Maybe we should drop Cloke also?
The Royal Sampler
Floreat Pica, Bitch!
If we ever get to have that argument I'll be rapt.
He's an aa player....we will all be rapt when he returns
Funny that nobody seems to remember his good lead, Mark and set shot goal to start the 4th quarter...it was especially important considering we had just kicked 2.9 in Q3.
LoL at people even mentioning Dawes, even Melbourne fans are over him...only 3 goals this year, and arguably not part of the Dees best 22 anymore. Hogan, Gawn and Pederson are better KPFs, Watts and Howe offer more as marking flanker types. To think the Dees are paying him 500K+ is laughable.
And he is a worse shot for goal than White, a worse ruck, and doesn't offer anything up the ground...Dawes was made to look ok by playing FF in our 2010-11 teams....the bloody Q-Stick was able to kick 60 goals when playing FF for WCE dominant teams back in 05-06.
White sh1tes all over Dawes, and is playing his role this year very well.
LoL at people even mentioning Dawes, even Melbourne fans are over him...only 3 goals this year, and arguably not part of the Dees best 22 anymore. Hogan, Gawn and Pederson are better KPFs, Watts and Howe offer more as marking flanker types. To think the Dees are paying him 500K+ is laughable.
And he is a worse shot for goal than White, a worse ruck, and doesn't offer anything up the ground...Dawes was made to look ok by playing FF in our 2010-11 teams....the bloody Q-Stick was able to kick 60 goals when playing FF for WCE dominant teams back in 05-06.
White sh1tes all over Dawes, and is playing his role this year very well.
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Play him as a big bodied midfielder
3kicks3goals
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There's a really good player at Melbourne I think we could make a play for.
Can't think of his name right now but I think it's something like Doors or Jaws.
I think he'd be a really good fit for us.
Yeah Dawsey's 0.5 goals a game this year really would have made a difference.
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q stick maybe.
dawes..no chance. have you forgotten his attempts in the ruck? or that he's lucky to take a contested mark once a month?
I thought the same a few weeks ago.
Nup, totally disagree.
He had a good game last night. Crumbled under pressure with a few chances on goal. But he wasn’t the only one. We missed so many opportunities last night.
He competed really well in up forward and in the ruck. First time I’ve seen him chase as hard as he did. But saying that he can do better. Much better.
I personally think he’s improving. He’s not a 2nd key forward, he’s a 3rd at best. And I reckon we’re wrestling with what is the best setup. We’re crying out for a 2nd forward, and maybe Moore/White are the 2nd and 3rd Forwards. Remember Elliot was quiet too, so that hurts at times.
Anyone remember a bloke called Leigh Brown? No one liked him either. The first final against the Dogs in 2010 when he worked his but off and ran past a smaller, quicker dogs player to win 50/50.
Dawes is injury prone, and has done jack s**t since we let him go.
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Dawes has kicked 3 goals from 6 games this year.
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Trading Dawes was a brilliant move
9 scoring shots for 3 goals. Drop both. It's time to find better avenues to goal.
Below are some forwards at other clubs that are out of contract at the end of the year.
Lachie Henderson (196cm; 96kgs; 25 yrs - 110 games: Average: 11.5 disposals; 5.3 marks; 1 goal per game. Has kicked 102/53): Plays both ends
Jake Carlisle (198cm; 98 kgs; 23 yrs - 79 games: Average: 13.0 disposals; 6 marks; .8 goal per game): Plays both ends
Jack Hawkins (197cm; 105kgs; 27 yrs - 157 games: Average: 11.5 disposals; 5.4 marks; 2.0 goals per game)
Sam Day (196cm; 103kgs; 22 yrs - 68 games - Average 9.3 disposals; 3.2 marks; .7 goals. Has kicked 46/33): Plays both ends
Tom Lynch (199cms; 101 kgs; 23 yrs - 70 games: Average 14.0 disposals; 5.3 marks; 1.4 goals per game. Has kicked 99/60)
Charlie Dixon (200cm; 105kgs; 25 yrs - 57 games: Average: 10.4 disposals; 3.0 marks; 1.3 goals per game. Has kicked 73/36)
Jon Patton (198cm; 103kgs; 22 yrs - 29 games: Average: 9.9 disposals; 4.2 marks; 1.2 goals per game. Has kicked 34/24)
Adam Tomlinson (193cm; 92kgs; 21 yrs - Average: 14.6 disposals; 6.2 marks; .3 goals per game. Has kicked 15/13): Plays both ends and wing
Cam McCarthy (193cm; 83kgs; 20 yrs - Average: 10.4 disposals; 4.5 marks; 2.3 goals per game. Has kicked 30/9)
Jesse Hogan (195cm; 97kgs; 20 yrs - 10 games: Average: 13.7 disposals; 6.8 marks; 2.2 goals per game. Has kicked 22/8)
Jack Darling (193cm; 93kgs; 23 yrs - 92 games: Average: 12.2 disposals; 4.8 marks; 1.8 goals per game. Has kicked 162/96)
Jay Schulz (193cm; 94kgs; 30 yrs: Average: 10.7 disposals: 5.1 marks; 1.7 goals per game. Has kicked 305/152)
Lachie Henderson (196cm; 96kgs; 25 yrs - 110 games: Average: 11.5 disposals; 5.3 marks; 1 goal per game. Has kicked 102/53): Plays both ends
Jake Carlisle (198cm; 98 kgs; 23 yrs - 79 games: Average: 13.0 disposals; 6 marks; .8 goal per game): Plays both ends
Jack Hawkins (197cm; 105kgs; 27 yrs - 157 games: Average: 11.5 disposals; 5.4 marks; 2.0 goals per game)
Sam Day (196cm; 103kgs; 22 yrs - 68 games - Average 9.3 disposals; 3.2 marks; .7 goals. Has kicked 46/33): Plays both ends
Tom Lynch (199cms; 101 kgs; 23 yrs - 70 games: Average 14.0 disposals; 5.3 marks; 1.4 goals per game. Has kicked 99/60)
Charlie Dixon (200cm; 105kgs; 25 yrs - 57 games: Average: 10.4 disposals; 3.0 marks; 1.3 goals per game. Has kicked 73/36)
Jon Patton (198cm; 103kgs; 22 yrs - 29 games: Average: 9.9 disposals; 4.2 marks; 1.2 goals per game. Has kicked 34/24)
Adam Tomlinson (193cm; 92kgs; 21 yrs - Average: 14.6 disposals; 6.2 marks; .3 goals per game. Has kicked 15/13): Plays both ends and wing
Cam McCarthy (193cm; 83kgs; 20 yrs - Average: 10.4 disposals; 4.5 marks; 2.3 goals per game. Has kicked 30/9)
Jesse Hogan (195cm; 97kgs; 20 yrs - 10 games: Average: 13.7 disposals; 6.8 marks; 2.2 goals per game. Has kicked 22/8)
Jack Darling (193cm; 93kgs; 23 yrs - 92 games: Average: 12.2 disposals; 4.8 marks; 1.8 goals per game. Has kicked 162/96)
Jay Schulz (193cm; 94kgs; 30 yrs: Average: 10.7 disposals: 5.1 marks; 1.7 goals per game. Has kicked 305/152)
Shaneprice97
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One of Lynch, Dixon or Henderson out of the list of players.
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i'd keep him in the seniors... I asked the question earlier in the season "who would be the whipping boy" http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/who-is-the-2015-whipping-boy.1081299/
and jessie came in third place behind Young and Blair. Young has been completely off the radar and Blair has unfortunately been showing too much form so I dont think we should be dropping Jessie unless we have a suitable fallguy....
and jessie came in third place behind Young and Blair. Young has been completely off the radar and Blair has unfortunately been showing too much form so I dont think we should be dropping Jessie unless we have a suitable fallguy....
The usual suspects on this board will always find another fall guy. You only need look a few posts above for calls to drop cloke who is having a great season.
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