What's wrong with the Bendigo Pioneers?

Discussion in 'TAC Cup' started by beowulf, Jul 28, 2010.

Put it out there
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  1. TFLUA-Tiger

    TFLUA-Tiger Club Legend

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    Pretty spot on Schnail. I thought Byrne's effort was sensational - the best game i've seen him play.

    Heavyside was tireless as ever, Lester competed really well body on body at FB and Hywood presented really well at HF (he's good in the air for his size too).

    Who do you drop out from that team - if you've got to cut to 22 and bring Stringer, Wines and Flood in?

    My side looks a bit like this:

    Pohlner - Lester - Mee
    Miller - Pollock - Moffat
    Marchesi - Byrne - Stringer
    Flood - Hywood - Palazzo
    Burgess - McIness - Archard
    May - Heavyside - Wines

    Kendell - Chisari - Greetham - Donehue

    EMG: Clyne - Robins - Lanyon

    It's pretty hard to pick a 22. There's a fair bit of midfield depth, and not a huge amount of KP depth.
     

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  2. Schnail73

    Schnail73 Senior List

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    Pretty good side, I think Clyne would have to play though, maybe in place of Palazzo. Hywood at CHF is a good pick, not all that tall but has very good hands. I thought the inclusion of Archard on the weekend added a bit to the forward line, kicked 3. If Stringer plays on the wing, the Pioneers are going pretty good. If the centre square looks like May - Byrne - Heavyside - Wines, they will be pretty hard to stop. Marchesi on the other wing is also good, height and speed, give them a target when coming out of defense....
     
  3. Vanderhum

    Vanderhum Debutant

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    clearly this pio side has a lot more direction, discipline and structure. And this all avenues back to the coach, schail's commentary on the game is an accurate assessment. The chargers were obviously a more skilled side and smashed the pioneers all day in the air, I don't recall the pios taking a single contested mark. but the pioneers under Newitt just kept their heads down and fought for the footy right to the siren. I think the new coach is going to bring this thread to a close and all power to him. With some of the boys to come in to the side, do we dare to talk finals !!!!!
     
  4. Schnail73

    Schnail73 Senior List

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    Steady on Vanderhum, lets see of they can win 2 in a row first....At the least, they have a roadmap. We'll see if its being read the right way up:cool:
     
  5. bobb 77

    bobb 77 Rookie

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    Pioneers cop belting by the power i see? By looking at the other comments on here they must of been pretty cockey leading into the game?
     
  6. Bruiser1969

    Bruiser1969 Draftee

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    I watched the game, they were 14 points down in the last quarter but fell away and the other team ran over the top of them!
     
  7. Yarra Terminator

    Yarra Terminator Rookie

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    I have been reading all the post about this year and i felt compelled to say something. The appointment of a full time quality coach was the biggest step forward in recent times for the Pioneers. He is a quality man with great values and i believe he will be great for all the boys. Clarke was a negative influence on the group as a whole. Yes he may of helped some individual players along the way, but i know for a fact that he was also a very negative influence on some individuals and his influence on only a few was divisive amongst the group. As a S&C coach with many year experience in elite sports I can promise you that his old school methods ruined some players seasons in 2011 and that he was always running his own agenda and was never happy to collaborate with the staff that should of been advising players. He is controlling and emotionally he used guilt to get some players to over train. Whatever happens wins and losses wise in 2012 the pioneers have the best man i have personally ever met at the helm and he needs to be listened to, his choice to not have Clarke training players should be respected. Mark Ellis always has the best interests of the boys at heart but wasn't full time so he used people who offered their services and help to fill voids he felt were there, this is no longer a problem because David is FULL TIME. Let him get on with it and lets all be supportive. Stop the criticism until there is something to criticize. Good Luck David and the Pioneers for the rest on 2012.
     
  8. bobb 77

    bobb 77 Rookie

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    Yarra terminator you have made some pretty interesting statements there! There you have stated " Clarke was a negitive influence on the group as a hole"? now how do you no that was the case? Did you ever witness the trainings that these boys had with Clarke? If he was so negitive to the group why did the boys keep turning up and train with him? You have also stated that Clarke ruined players in 2011? Now I'd like you to name 2 or more players that he injured? One of the reason he didn't collaborate with the staff was because the staff didn't have anytime for him! All they did was go around telling pple not to train with him as they thought he didnt no what he was doing and of course the big one was the boys had a better relationship with him and not the staff so what does that come down too? Jelousy! Iv had a read of this information and I'm telling you now from a real close source that alot of this is incorrect information! I think it's time that pple should start knowing the truth of the whole situation not just what people think!
     
  9. bobb 77

    bobb 77 Rookie

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    Sounds like they didn't have the fitness to stay with side would that be write in saying that bruiser?
     
  10. TFLUA-Tiger

    TFLUA-Tiger Club Legend

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    Power were a class above - just had a little bit more depth of a/grade players than the Pios. Pio's stuck with them all afternoon and were only down by 20 at 3QT, but faded badly in the last.
     
  11. bobb 77

    bobb 77 Rookie

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    Ahh well that's interesting that they had a bit more depth/a grade players...reckon if the pioneers would have kept the players such as valentine,Hird,Collins,Knox,Filo and Ngwati, do you think it would of been whole new ball game if you would of kept them in your squad Knowing that there is 4 Vic country players amoung those six?
     

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  12. Schnail73

    Schnail73 Senior List

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    The Pioneers have certainly improved on last year in reagrds to the game plan. The players appear to have more confidence in their direction on the field, they play with more structure and are certainly using the full compliment of players through rotations. They have fallen down with disposal errors and struggle to take contested marks around the ground, but they are better......
    AFL Victoria recognised that the Pioneers needed more direction and development outside of gametime. Dave Newett was appointed to provide that and has delivered that in my opinion. For the first three games of the year, they have been competitive untill half time/three quarter time and fallen away in 2 of the three games, no 100 point blowouts, still sticking to the direction but probably running out of legs. Had Valentine, Collins, Knox, Filo, Hird and Ngawati been available, they might have pulled off another win, we'll never know.
    What we do know and have to accept is the improvement in the way they play and account for themselves on the field. As a team, they are better. Its still early days and the focus needs to stay on the development and improvement of the current group. They will win a couple more games than last year, they'll be stronger with the return of Wines and Stringer, and there are some good kids yet to play....

    There was never going to be a silver bullet to the problems associated with their past record, but there help on hand, give it time and this thread will be no longer a valid blog...
     
  13. bobb 77

    bobb 77 Rookie

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    Yer it's ok to say that they have made some good improvements but lets be honest they haven't played a fully strength side including there AIS players that havent played for there club for example oakleigh! I was told that they had 8 players missing and of course one of those players we all know jack viney! he makes one hell of a difference in that side! Yer we all know how good stringer and wines are but will they make a HUGE difference between improving or not improving? What happens when they come up against a side like Calder cannons that havent had a full strength side missing 6 AIS players? They'll just run all over them you'd think? Like you said time will tell all I getting at is why would a coach that you say has had AFL experinece why would he let go of six of there top age players that have extremely great ability and out of those 6 are 4 Vic country players? If they wanted to improve wouldn't keeping them be better to work with?
     
  14. Humble Minion

    Humble Minion Team Captain

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    Dunno about what players Oakleigh might have missed for other reasons, but they had zero blokes in Europe with the AIS squad. Billings and McDonald are in the younger tier squad and played against Bendigo, and I don't think you can count Viney - he's a Casey player this year, I don't think he's even on Oakleighs list from what I remember.

    Credit where it's due.
     
  15. Schnail73

    Schnail73 Senior List

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    Yep, there are many players to come back into TAC cup sides in the next couple of weeks, and then there is the run to the NAB Championships...
    The return of Stringer/Wines wil not improve individuals, but it will strengthen their structure. If fit, Stringer should slot in at CHB in defense mode, and into CHF/wing in offense mode, Wines into the middle working with Heavyside and Byrne, swapping into the forward line (much like Kerridge last year). They just look better on paper, and on the field.

    My understanding of the whole preseason squad debarcal was that the coach outlined the training regime, including no outside help, and some decided that it wasnt for them (including the players you mentioned). They were all given opportunity to stay on conditions imposed by the coach (who owns the coaching process at the Pioneers) but decided to go. I reckon Dave Newett would have loved to coach those guys as that list would have been as talented as any Pioneers list in the last 10 years.

    All he can do is work with the cattle he has, and based on the cattle listing, compared to say one including the above mentioned players, there is still improvement being displayed. It was always going to be a long year....

    Clarke has contributed greatly in the past to the development of Pioneers players during the period where a part time coach was in control. Its a shame that its come to what we hear and see now, but AFL Vic appointed Dave Newett based on his presentation and experience. Dunno how many applicants there were, Dave got the job. Clarkey was not on the Pioneers coaching for the organisation, therefore the new coach does not have to use his skills. Its a shame but thats it, Dave has the framework of where he want the side to go, and if your not prepared to work inside that famework, there are other clubs to play with. I hear that Knox and Collins in particular are playing very good senior football for Golden Square, no doubt supported and mentored by Clarkey. Good on them, they will still be under scrutiny from VFL clubs, maybe step up next year to a VFL list. Sam Mitchell, Smith at Hawthorn, Maxwell at Collingwood all came through on the path.

    TAC Cup is not for everyone........obviously.....
     
  16. footyman

    footyman Norm Smith Medallist

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    Three different people have told me the Pioneers have been flooding at times during their games, particularly the first half of games. No wonder they are close on the scoreboard at half time - they are turning games into defensive scraps. And it's little wonder they ran out of legs in the final quarter on Saturday if thats the case.

    Someone on here suggested the Pios have a "quality game plan", but it sounds more like a desperate game plan to me.
     
  17. Schnail73

    Schnail73 Senior List

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    Yeah, there are suggestions of the flooding, especially during the Oakleigh game 2 weeks ago.
    Their game plan relies on numbers at the contests, which they are doing quite well, the problem lies in their spread when they win/lose the contests. The Oakleigh game was ugly, but it was probably the only way they were going to win. The Chargers stopped the running spread late in the last quarter, which allowed the Pioneers to turn it into multiple stoppages, which they won, and consequently kicked goals.

    You play with what you've got and what you know. The Pioneers are a way behind skill wise, they struggle to hit targets on the rebound, there game relies on stoppage after stoppage (and they still struggle).

    Good sides will beat the flood, especially the good ball users (Knights, Power, Stingrays, Rebels). They did stop on the weekend against the Power, and lost the critical contested marks, and the stoppages late in the game. At that stage they were 14 points down..and got belted from there.

    .......but it wasnt 100 points, and they will get better....
     
  18. bobb 77

    bobb 77 Rookie

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  19. Humble Minion

    Humble Minion Team Captain

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    The Pios are hardly on their own in the flooding dept. I've seen almost every TAC side flood at one time or another over the last coupe of years, some routinely.
     
  20. Schnail73

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  21. Bruiser1969

    Bruiser1969 Draftee

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  22. bobb 77

    bobb 77 Rookie

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  23. Yarra Terminator

    Yarra Terminator Rookie

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    I know first hand that every player that trained with him in 2011 struggle late in the season due to his outdated and uneducated methods! they struggled to train properly at Pioneers training and run out games due to high levels of fatigue and soreness! I am very qualified in this area as a member of the industry for 12 years I know about it. I'm a level 2 S&C coach. I'm not someone who is just guessing! CLARKE OUT is best thing pioneers have done in 2012! Well Done!
     
  24. Yarra Terminator

    Yarra Terminator Rookie

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    Yeah let's overtrain them so they all end up with OP and ruin their careers! Go Clarke!
     
  25. Yarra Terminator

    Yarra Terminator Rookie

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