Where are St Kilda at?

[gillo94]

Aren't you blokes into him?

Apparently but think more clubs should be too, young and still plenty of years left in him

 

[NarklesHelmet]

That's just it, no club is run to satisfy a number. The number merely describes the situation.

Average age is transient over time, e.g. even GC and GWS would not be considered "young" teams by 1960's standards. It's more useful when comparing teams with their contemporaries.

All I've said is St.Kilda is being largely sustained by its veterans. I understand full well that supporters invariably like to focus on their club's youth during rebuilding - it lowers expectations and makes the journey more enjoyable.

I don't have any particular axe to grind against St.Kilda, though a few years back I enjoyed arguing with supporters who were in post-Lyon denial. Youth bring hope, and things are definitely looking up for the Saints.

The bat and ball were picked up because you were so dismissive.

I was one debating with you post-Lyon and, looking back, I still don’t blame the club for trying to top-up and go again for a few reasons. Firstly, Geelong and Sydney were showing it was possible and secondly, the drafts were compromised meaning it wasn’t a great time to start the re-build. We weren’t a Carlton – a mid-table team at best - in denial – we were very, very close to winning the whole thing meaning we were at the very least entitled to explore a Geelong or Sydney style re-build especially when the drafts were compromised.

What I like about our club is, once we saw the writing was on the wall and that we were not going to be able to challenge with the group and coach that we had we acted decisively and started full-on rebuild mode. We’ve been committed to the rebuild ever since and are starting to see the benefits of it now and will more in the future.

I fully support everything the club has done, and that includes trying to top up our list post Lyon as it was worth exploring that at the time. We were also right to act decisively when we saw that wasn’t going to work and it hasn’t cost us too much pain.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I fully support everything the club has done, and that includes trying to top up our list post Lyon as it was worth exploring that at the time. We were also right to act decisively when we saw that wasn’t going to work and it hasn’t cost us too much pain.

Looking back, do you think it was the wrong strategy, or just that the club didn't identify the right players?

 

[Defacto]

The Saints are on their road to recovery after the Ross Lyon destruction.

Rolling the Pies was awesome

I really think they need to recruit a replacement or addition for Dempster. Also some extra speed in the midfield. Then consider a replacement for Riewoldt

I think the plan will be that fisher and Schneider retire. Lonie is already playing the old Schneider role. Goddard can take fishers role. Delaney and worst case Lee can be brought in. Gilbert is being used in another role but could be used as a KPF like WCE have had to use Schofield there

On roo I think he might have 2 more years left. I think the plan is Bruce will replace roo. Both have very similar running output

McCartin will be full forward.

So I think they're still looking for the resting ruck/fwd replacement

 

[NathanMX]

Reckon Roo may never stop, he loves our team, he loves our game. That's what keeps people like Fletch and Boomer going and previously Harvs. Barring serious injury I think there is no reason he should retire anytime before the end of the decade. Heck even a half past it Roo would still put plenty of backs to shame.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Looking back, do you think it was the wrong strategy, or just that the club didn't identify the right players?

I'd say in hindsight it is impossible to argue that the top-up strategy was the right one with the coach we had and the way he was going about it. So it really would have been better to have started the rebuild earlier as you and some others suggested in that original thread. Luckily, the powers that be at our club realised they were on the wrong course and went into full re-build mode while at the same time appointing a coach famed for development. So ultimately, it hasn't cost us too much to delay the re-build by a year or two during compromised drafts. I'm also glad we have kept some older players to help the young ones with development so I think in general most Saints fans are pretty glad that after 10 years of finals the inevitable years of pain are being handled in the right way.

 

[sammm]

Good ole Wacky Watters

?
Was he that wacky?

 

[my name was taken]

Looking back, do you think it was the wrong strategy, or just that the club didn't identify the right players?

Right strategy, unlucky choices. I think Lovett cost us the premiership in 09. Also think we should have taken cousins but was understandable why we didn't. Both, if playing would have provided more than our fringe players on the day, there was a lot of talk that our 'bottom 4' players at the time were not really up to it.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Right strategy, unlucky choices. I think Lovett cost us the premiership in 09. Also think we should have taken cousins but was understandable why we didn't. Both, if playing would have provided more than our fringe players on the day, there was a lot of talk that our 'bottom 4' players at the time were not really up to it.

Was thinking about Caydn Beetham today, first-rounder who would've been in his prime in 2009-10. Lots of what-ifs.

 

[gillo94]

I'd say in hindsight it is impossible to argue that the top-up strategy was the right one with the coach we had and the way he was going about it. So it really would have been better to have started the rebuild earlier as you and some others suggested in that original thread. Luckily, the powers that be at our club realised they were on the wrong course and went into full re-build mode while at the same time appointing a coach famed for development. So ultimately, it hasn't cost us too much to delay the re-build by a year or two during compromised drafts. I'm also glad we have kept some older players to help the young ones with development so I think in general most Saints fans are pretty glad that after 10 years of finals the inevitable years of pain are being handled in the right way.

Will Saints look into free agency or trading players in the 24-26 age range?

 

[my name was taken]

Was thinking about Caydn Beetham today, first-rounder who would've been in his prime in 2009-10. Lots of what-ifs.

Completely forgot about him. Such a shame but I guess that's life.

Pretty excited about this current group, there really seems to be a sense of community between them. not sure if deliberate but it's good that a lot of these players played together before being drafted.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Will Saints look into free agency or trading players in the 24-26 age range?

Don't think we have any players that are expendable with currency in that age group: some talk of Hickey being traded but would be a surprising one..... It is pretty well documented by those in charge at our club that we will be looking at Free Agency from 2016 onwards and I would be really surprised if we didn't stick to that plan so no activity this year and then hit it hard next year.

 

[Mat Mann]

Aside from Roo, the one player we need to find a replacement for in the coming years is Dempster. Game after game he is our defensive lynchpin. A criminally underrated champion.

Dempster is playing the best footy of his career now, in the GF's he was a solid backline member, didn't get AA nom till we started to slide, He is good, I certainly love watching him, but his role, I'm comfortable in saying we have covered, maybe not by 1 player, but give me 6 solid defenders over 2 stars/2 solids/2 spades any day

I expect that Saints will float around 6 - 8 wins next couple of years. I really think expecting this group to rapidly mature is unrealistic.

I think the same, retirements, transitioning players in to full-time roles. I certainly don't think top 8 for the next few years, and tbh, making the 8 in the next 2 years would be detrimental to our long term goals. we still need picks because we still have a lot of players on our list that need to be replaced

Bruce is most certainly A grade IMO.
Saints are tracking well if they could pinch lets say 2 more wins then I'd think saints fans would be very happy with that.
Forward line doesn't need to be touched, even post Riewoldt (he doesn't look like slowing down either) the forward line looks in great shape.

Bruce, McCartin and Billings are almost certain A graders (bruce is already) and with support of lonie, sinclair, membrey (after Riewoldt retires thats probably when he gets a full time spot), its in very capable hands. The only issue with it is that theirs probably no room for a resting ruck (Hickey doesn't really fit), that probably means Bruce has to do some ruck work to support longer. It terms of scoring firepower though there is certainly plenty of good players their to kick a winning score.

Midfield needs at least 2 more young A graders coming through. St Kilda probably haven't won a game this season that hasn't contained big numbers from one or several of Steven, Armitage and Montagna and I can't recall a really dominate midfield performance from an under 24 mid. Steven and Armitage have got plenty of footy left in them so thats a good start but theirs probably the need for another inside contested beast and bit more class (someone who can rack up big numbers and provide run and dash).

Defence is solid in terms of rebounders but 1 - 2 more KPD are needed. Goddard is probably a lock for one of those tall spots, Delaney might carry another spot for a couple more years until the young defenders mature, but Dempster is still one of the saints more important players. His role needs to be filled too.

I think the most important part of the ground is the forward line, really good forward setups can still kick winning scores even if supply isn't great in quality or quantity and the saints have that in good order. Mids and defenders a must.

I actually agree with most you have said except Bruce isn't A grade, far from it tbh, but certainly has the potential
your surmise of out fwd/mid/backs is pretty spot on. Delany definitely is stop-gap

15th to 10th to 3rd in 2002/3/4 it can happen very quickly

certainly not possible. just look at the talent we had then compared to now.

I think we already might have "our Easton Wood", in Daniel McKenzie, who is likewise exceptional overhead and has already taken a number of extremely strong (including pack) overhead marks at full stretch, going back with the flight and so-on, at both VFL and AFL level so far this year.

There are very big wraps on him internally apparently and given his huge tank and speed he may of course end up on a wing, or in the midfield, but if not then I think he'll slot in down back very easily and be someone who takes a lot of intercept marks and also gives us a lot of drive from back there, with his speed, elite agility and raking left foot.

Another option there could be Brodie Murdoch, who is also exceptionally strong overhead and is a really good size (at 188cm and built like a tank), but with good speed and endurance. I've liked what I've seen from him in his spells down back for us and he also had a 38 possession game at VFL level last year down back. He is another one who may end up in the midfield (as a "big bodied inside mid"), but if not then I could definitely see him slotting in across HB and being really good at intercepting and rebounding. Like McKenzie, he also has a raking left foot and probably an even better one. It is like a rocket. Needs to get on top of his lingering back issues that have plagued his last two years and preseasons though.

With Roberton and Savage and others like Newnes, Webster, McKenzie and Murdoch all looking like being good enough to play down back successfully at AFL level I think our backline is looking pretty good long term on the most part, just needing someone better than Delaney for FB and maybe someone for that 3rd tall role, if Lee doesn't prove good enough for it.

my thoughts as well

Looking back, do you think it was the wrong strategy, or just that the club didn't identify the right players?

our drafts at that time were pretty complex, turning over a large portion of our list
-2010 -draft 7, 2 never play, top pick leaves after 16 games to WA, no trades
-2011 -draft 6, 1 still to play ( markworth , dogged by injuries ) 11 delistings, trades and retirements
-2012 -draft 5, 1 still to play, 2 traded in, 5 delistings
-2013 -draft 6, 1 still to play - 4 traded in, 1 out
-2014 -draft 7,1 still to play

?
Was he that wacky?

wacky and an angry dwarf

Will Saints look into free agency or trading players in the 24-26 age range?

Saints IMO need to target a fullback
Maybe Carlise would be good fit trade 2nd and 3rd round pick to Bombers
Maybe draft one is another option

its a possibility, but definitely a right player/right price deal, have already signalled an intent to draft

 

[gillo94]

Dempster is playing the best footy of his career now, in the GF's he was a solid backline member, didn't get AA nom till we started to slide, He is good, I certainly love watching him, but his role, I'm comfortable in saying we have covered, maybe not by 1 player, but give me 6 solid defenders over 2 stars/2 solids/2 spades any day


I think the same, retirements, transitioning players in to full-time roles. I certainly don't think top 8 for the next few years, and tbh, making the 8 in the next 2 years would be detrimental to our long term goals. we still need picks because we still have a lot of players on our list that need to be replaced


I actually agree with most you have said except Bruce isn't A grade, far from it tbh, but certainly has the potential
your surmise of out fwd/mid/backs is pretty spot on. Delany definitely is stop-gap


certainly not possible. just look at the talent we had then compared to now.

my thoughts as well


our drafts at that time were pretty complex, turning over a large portion of our list
-2010 -draft 7, 2 never play, top pick leaves after 16 games to WA, no trades
-2011 -draft 6, 1 still to play ( markworth , dogged by injuries ) 11 delistings, trades and retirements
-2012 -draft 5, 1 still to play, 2 traded in, 5 delistings
-2013 -draft 6, 1 still to play - 4 traded in, 1 out
-2014 -draft 7,1 still to play


wacky and an angry dwarf



its a possibility, but definitely a right player/right price deal, have already signalled an intent to draft

Origionally thought be good to get depth for Saints but last 3 weeks think your team has a lot of guys taking those onfield leaderships roles

 

[Ricmel]

Origionally thought be good to get depth for Saints but last 3 weeks think your team has a lot of guys taking those onfield leaderships roles

I think they will be looking for a free agent in one of the next 3 years. They have room and whilst they will be hoping for another 1 or 2 high pick mids I think they will also be thinking one ready made jet would would complete the puzzle and provide the depth.

 

[Boristown]

Based on the most recent round of footy, the Saints are mid table for experience.

Will be interesting to see how St Kilda cope as they move down this list when their best players start retiring over the next few years (Riewoldt, Dempster, Montagna, Fisher, Ray, Gilbert etc).

 

[King_Steele]

Based on the most recent round of footy, the Saints are mid table for experience.

Will be interesting to see how St Kilda cope as they move down this list when their best players start retiring over the next few years (Riewoldt, Dempster, Montagna, Fisher, Ray, Gilbert etc).

How many times have you said this Boristown ?????

We get it lol, it's becoming beyond obsessive.

Take a walk outside, get some fresh air.

North is second on the list in games played & aren't in the top 8.

How embarrassing

That's the logic you use.

 

[Murraj1966]

Based on the most recent round of footy, the Saints are mid table for experience.

Will be interesting to see how St Kilda cope as they move down this list when their best players start retiring over the next few years (Riewoldt, Dempster, Montagna, Fisher, Ray, Gilbert etc).

Riewoldt and Montagna are the only hard to replace players there the rest are able to be replaced with the astute drafting we've been displaying the last few years

 

[Boristown]

Riewoldt and Montagna are the only hard to replace players there the rest are able to be replaced with the astute drafting we've been displaying the last few years

Maybe. Maybe not.

If the kids were really elite, they'd already be in the team.

 

[The Punter]

Maybe. Maybe not.

If the kids were really not injured, they'd already be in the team.

EFA.

 

[King_Steele]

Maybe. Maybe not.

If the kids were really elite, they'd already be in the team.

It's all predictions & what ifs, isn't it Boristown ?

 

[Boristown]

It's all predictions & what ifs, isn't it Boristown ?

Some would argue that.

 

[Defacto]

Based on the most recent round of footy, the Saints are mid table for experience.

Will be interesting to see how St Kilda cope as they move down this list when their best players start retiring over the next few years (Riewoldt, Dempster, Montagna, Fisher, Ray, Gilbert etc).

Shouldn't you be looking at those in the ideal age group of 24-29 instead?

 

[Falchoon]

In built James Hird excuse. Drop the old guys, play the yoof, and say 'we're inexperienced'

It's still an open age competition.

 

[Defacto]

Maybe. Maybe not.

If the kids were really elite, they'd already be in the team.

Bit like Tom Boyd, hey? I mean if he was elite he'd already be in that doggies side. So I guess Tom Boyd isn't elite right?